Have we seen the last of Mr. Lerner and the General?

[eastie]

Randy gave this club his best shot and got very close to cracking the top 4 , sadly that dream has died and he now needs to decide what is best for the clubs future, if he no longer has the cash or inspiration to take us forward i would hope he will actively look to sell the club to someone who has the financial muscle to take us forward ,but sadly those people are few and far between , after all kenwright has been trying to sell everton to a rich new owner for a while now.

[pauliewalnuts]

What he's done/trying to do is get us to operate within our means.  I think his initial investment was intended to secure a top 4 place and therefore mean we could operate 'within our means' at a level like he subsidised for the first 3-4 years of his tenure, but that didn't happen.

He is, but not as a result of a cleverly thought out strategy, but instead as an emergency measure to try and undo the damage of completely losing control of finances.  It's not like he'd have sanctioned Beye's contract thinking, "well, if we don't get top 4 I'll cut back a bit next year".  Basically he let O'Neill spend more or less what he liked and now we're paying for it.

That's the thing I don't get - the extent to which it really was "shit or bust", and so short termist.

[Concrete John]

What he's done/trying to do is get us to operate within our means.  I think his initial investment was intended to secure a top 4 place and therefore mean we could operate 'within our means' at a level like he subsidised for the first 3-4 years of his tenure, but that didn't happen.

He is, but not as a result of a cleverly thought out strategy, but instead as an emergency measure to try and undo the damage of completely losing control of finances.  It's not like he'd have sanctioned Beye's contract thinking, "well, if we don't get top 4 I'll cut back a bit next year".  Basically he let O'Neill spend more or less what he liked and now we're paying for it.

That's the thing I don't get - the extent to which it really was "shit or bust", and so short termist.

It was hardly 'shit or bust' - just a matter of trying, seeing the financial goalposts moved by what happened at Man City and then reluctantly coming to the conclusion that to keep trying was both too expensive and too likely not to work out for us. 

As to Risso's point, I'm not too sure! 

I always felt Randy was investing to get us to be a CL side.  When that didn't work, a new plan was needed.  The likes of Beye was a mistake, and CL side or not we'd be trying to get rid of him, but had the investment born fruit we'd still be 'operating within our means', but that would be a financial level or two above where we are now.  So, for instance, we may still have had the likes of Downing and Ash leave, but they'd have been replaced.

[Compass]

Hopefully yes because they've been found out. When the General came out with just think what McLeish could do if he was backed (thank god he hasn't that much though, he's already proven to waste alot of money on Hutton and N'Zogbia) and thinking we would manage to get 4th oops my finger slipped 5th, then you just knew the General hasn't got a clue. And then there's Randy Lerner who hired the most controversy manager in the history of our club and possibly the history of football. They've been here for 5 years and they've made it clear as day they still don't know the first thing about football. That's unforgiveable, there is no way we'll move forward even if they spent loads of money again as evident during MON's era because they can't grasp football knowledge. It could improve if Randy hired someone with football knowledge and passion, but no...He hires his friend, Paul something who's currently the CEO of this club who appears to be the yes man who hasn't got a clue about football either.

It's annoying that Randy Lerner seems very arrogant as well. When there was a protest against McLeish he should have listened to the fansi because it was for good reason. But instead, he thought...I'm the owner of the club and I can do what I want with it. Well, good job, you've hired a 2 PL relegation man who currently has a 25% win rate (no surprise) that could jeopardize your 40m + kitty from the Premier League and the attendence has gone downhill at a alarming rate mainly due to this. Not only that, but you actually paid to bring him here. He would be screwed if he didn't inherit his dad's money because he hasn't got good business sense at all.

[pauliewalnuts]

Look at the extend to which the spending brakes have been slammed on - we spent almost the entirety of last season around the relegation zone, and have since pruned the squad even more.

That's pretty much "have a go and if it doesn't work out, we'll have to give up entirely".

You're right about Man City, but it's not as if our ambitions have gone from being top four to top five.

They've gone almost overnight to "a top half finish would be excellent". And that is the kind of thing the likes of Albion or Fulham would aspire to.

[pauliewalnuts]

Hopefully yes because they've been found out. When the General came out with just think what McLeish could do if he was backed (thank god he hasn't that much though, he's already proven to waste alot of money on Hutton and N'Zogbia) and thinking we would manage to get 4th oops my finger slipped 5th, then you just knew the General hasn't got a clue.

I've got a lot of time for the General, and he was always in a difficult position fielding questions like that, but I had to say, the above statements really did make me wonder whether they understand the PL at all.

[Merv]

I remain absolutely staggered in the u-turn strategy we've deployed in the last 18 months - from going all-out for the Champions League places to where we are now, managing with an obvious surplus in quality and, in some cases, unable to make so much as a free transfer.

I expected some adjustments but surely finding the middle ground was possible?

[Vanilla]

People were shocked when they thought they had seen the annual appearance of RL today at VP.

However, everyone calmed down when they realised the phantom was just the ghost from Aston Hall queuing for tickets for the Norwich game.

[Concrete John]

Hopefully yes because they've been found out. When the General came out with just think what McLeish could do if he was backed (thank god he hasn't that much though, he's already proven to waste alot of money on Hutton and N'Zogbia) and thinking we would manage to get 4th oops my finger slipped 5th, then you just knew the General hasn't got a clue.

I've got a lot of time for the General, and he was always in a difficult position fielding questions like that, but I had to say, the above statements really did make me wonder whether they understand the PL at all.

It was the 'imagine what he could if backed' bit that I don;t understand.  Why say it if hes not going to be backed?  I see a number of possibilities:-
1.  The General thought he would be, but was wrong/out of the loop.
2.  They intended to, but something changed.
3.  He was lying to us.
4.  The General is an idiot.

Now, I don't believe 4 and 3 is counter-productive, so that leaves 1 or 2.  I can believe, especially in the current financial climate, things would change, but in that short a space of time?  I can only assume he spoke out of turn and that might be part of the reason he has withdrawn from boards like this.   

[Concrete John]

Look at the extend to which the spending brakes have been slammed on - we spent almost the entirety of last season around the relegation zone, and have since pruned the squad even more.

That's pretty much "have a go and if it doesn't work out, we'll have to give up entirely".

You're right about Man City, but it's not as if our ambitions have gone from being top four to top five.

They've gone almost overnight to "a top half finish would be excellent". And that is the kind of thing the likes of Albion or Fulham would aspire to.

Being 5th is no different financially to being 6th, so if the Man City thing effectively ended any realistic CL dream, then it does become more understandable.

However, the spending stopped, Bent aside, after MON left.  So we're talking summer 2010, when we started hearing about wages/turnover ratio and the not so secret six the club wanted shot of (Davies, Beye, Sidwell, NRC, Heskey & Shorey).  The Jan before that saw the comments from MON about selling before buying.  So I guess it was somethime after summer 2009 when Randy revised his strategy.  So, was it really all that sudden or have we been in the midst of getting the wages under control and the club self sufficient for over two years now in reality?     

[Risso]

Hopefully yes because they've been found out. When the General came out with just think what McLeish could do if he was backed (thank god he hasn't that much though, he's already proven to waste alot of money on Hutton and N'Zogbia) and thinking we would manage to get 4th oops my finger slipped 5th, then you just knew the General hasn't got a clue.

I've got a lot of time for the General, and he was always in a difficult position fielding questions like that, but I had to say, the above statements really did make me wonder whether they understand the PL at all.

It was the 'imagine what he could if backed' bit that I don;t understand.  Why say it if hes not going to be backed?  I see a number of possibilities:-
1.  The General thought he would be, but was wrong/out of the loop.
2.  They intended to, but something changed.
3.  He was lying to us.
4.  The General is an idiot.

Now, I don't believe 4 and 3 is counter-productive, so that leaves 1 or 2.  I can believe, especially in the current financial climate, things would change, but in that short a space of time?  I can only assume he spoke out of turn and that might be part of the reason he has withdrawn from boards like this.   

My inkling is for number 1, but still with an element of spin rather than outright lies.  The General did try (halfheartedly) to justify the "backing" comment by saying that backing constituted more than just transfer fees, but I think even he realised that trying to pass off this summer's lack of activity as backing was pushing it somewhat, and off he went.

[Rudy Can't Fail]

The Jan before that saw the comments from MON about selling before buying.  So I guess it was somethime after summer 2009 when Randy revised his strategy.   

I think it was the General that said MON had gone over budget in the summer of 2009 with the signing of Warnock. MON was just a spoiled child with those comments and I guess the writing was on the wall thereafter.

[Concrete John]

The Jan before that saw the comments from MON about selling before buying.  So I guess it was somethime after summer 2009 when Randy revised his strategy.   

I think it was the General that said MON had gone over budget in the summer of 2009 with the signing of Warnock. MON was just a spoiled child with those comments and I guess the writing was on the wall thereafter.

I think those comments from the General where after the event though?  As I recall MON ws asked at the time if he had to 'sell to buy', to which he replied "I wouldn't be the only manager in that position."  I don't remember hearing anything else about it suring the Jan 2010 window?

For me it was sometime between this and out last big outlay in summer 2009 that the club's approach changed.

[Chris Smith]

Hopefully yes because they've been found out. When the General came out with just think what McLeish could do if he was backed (thank god he hasn't that much though, he's already proven to waste alot of money on Hutton and N'Zogbia) and thinking we would manage to get 4th oops my finger slipped 5th, then you just knew the General hasn't got a clue.

I've got a lot of time for the General, and he was always in a difficult position fielding questions like that, but I had to say, the above statements really did make me wonder whether they understand the PL at all.

When you find yourself on the same side of the fence of a troll like Comp(lete)ass then it's time to reconsider your standpoint.

Randy and McLeish have had one transfer window.

[Risso]

Randy and McLeish have had one transfer window.

In which they susbstantially weakened the team.