Are things really as bad as I feel they are?

[Boz]

After the Man City game many of us said that Citeh was pretty much a non-starter results-wise, and the better measure of where we are with AM would be the Baggies game. Unfortunately he came up short. No question that Herd's red card had an impact but the poor football, lack of fight and leadership, and persistence with Emile Heskey have got me worried. Other than Citeh, and maybe Everton (notoriously slow starters under Moyes) we've had an easy start and only beaten Wigan, Blackburn and Hereford.

I like McLeish as a person but was concerned when he was appointed - not because he used to manage our neighbours, but because of his record and brand of football. I've been willing to give him a chance because he's been dealt a crap hand - a team which flirted with relegation selling its flair players again, and with a remit to cut the wages. I've accepted this as a transitional season - sell the deadwood, keep us up, and rebuild based on a thin but decent squad including promising youngsters next year.

But if we don't get good results against Sunderland, Norwich and Swansea, and maybe pick up a point at Spurs, I fear we'll be well in the mire come January. And given that we've so far failed to beat the likes of QPR, Wolves and Albion - yes, I'm worried

I too think we'll be in the deep and claggy after Christmas. Another poster said there were 5 other teams worse than Villa, but I'm not so sure, and if they have more fight than Villa players seem to have, we'll be flirting with relegation for a second season.

[ventnor villain]

I don't know about it feeling like 1986, but it certainly feels like 1984 or 85: the club is in a steady decline with a manager who appears to have no clear ideas about how to reverse the trend as it was back then. Back in the 1980s we suffered as a result of having good players who were past their best and whose replacements weren't of the same quality. This time around players are moving on to clubs who are perceived as being more progressive and ambitious, but again their replacements are inferior. We may not go down this season on the basis that there are probably at least three teams worse than us, but as sure as eggs is eggs then this time next year the writing will be on the wall unless drastic action is taken to arrest the decline.

[SoccerHQ]

We desperately need 4 points from the Norwich and Sunderland games. If not we're in desperate trouble as after that the run of 10 games starts in which we'l have Spurs, Chelsea and Stoke away and Arsenal, Manure and Liverpool all at home in a row, I'm really struggling to see many points up to new years day really.

I think it's going to be like last season, we'll be hovering just above the relegation zone while still only being only 4-5 points off the top half. Only the football will be much much worse.

[Villanation]

1pt from Sunderland is an absolute without doubt must have.

[Greg N'Ash]

There is absolutely no doubt that the rushed appointment of Houllier and the disaster that was last season was a direct result of the spiteful departure of MON. He knew exactly what he was doing and I’m sure he enjoyed the fallout, as did his media chums.

However, when the club knew that Houllier could not reasonably carry on, we had a gilt edged chance to address the problem. Sure, we were never going to get Ancelotti, but the ranges of candidates were infinitely better than the first time of asking.

Now I’m not going to dredge up a topic that has been repeated ad infinitum since august, but I fail to see how the appointment of McLeish, the selling of our two best players and a failure to replace them with anything resembling quality can blamed on MON.

It just strikes me that the board has been determined to cut costs since MON departed and under McLeish they saw an opportunity to do this as quickly as possible, whilst still maintaining our status in the Premier League. As Dave W said, our attendances are plummeting but are in fact coming back to a level that most of us will recognise. I suspect the board has factored all of this in and despite repeated comments that they don’t know what they are doing, I think they know EXACTLY what they are doing.

While i agree MON's departure was meant to cause as much problems for us as possible, i'm not sure things would have been that rosy if he'd stayed. The bleak fact was "his team" had peaked a good 12 months earlier. In reality the rot set in when we didn't replace Barry but shuffled the pack instead and bought Downing who was crocked. It covered up the problems in the midfield short term but then Petrov started showing his age in MON's last season and once Milner went that was it frankly. We may not have been a 1 man team but there's no doubt a lot of the best things about the team went through Milner, and it always amazed me when people were claiming last season that this was the team that should be challenging for 6th like the season before - not with Milner gone and Petrov past it . Since then its been compounded by the loss of Young and Downing which mean we have very little quality left. Ireland has shown precious little of his undoubted ability, delpth is fast resembling a white elephant on the Davies scale, Makoun was shipped off after AM caught him passing the ball..... which leaves the kids basically who we all hope will prove to be world beaters but it doesn't look like its going to happen this season

Until that midfield is sorted out we're gonna struggle however we play and Lerner is going to have to spend or AM will go the way of Houllier. Once you factor in the compensation for the manager and his staff, and having to pay a new manager and maybe his old club, it would probably make more economic sense to bite the bullet and buy a quality midfielder but financially Randy seems determined to cut off his nose to spite his face.

[Villanation]

Completely agree with the point about MON's team had peaked 12 months earlier, that and the fact the RL had made it very clear to MON, no more money back in the previous Jan transfer window was his swan song, IMO these reasons where far more damming than the timing of his departure.

All that said, I thought the Houllier appointment was not a good one and thus far, although more time is needed I think AM's job is a bridge to far for him, I think his appointments and Houlliers this far have not been in any way impressive, Bent looks like a fish out of water, Ireland although looks decent recently the gets dropped, previous to that hopeless, N'Zogbia, this player could eventually be chalked up as one of Villa's worst yet and with the loss of Milner, Downing and Young 3 players for a team like Villa to lose is devastating IMO.

[hawkeye]

We have lost Milner Downing A Young Barry L Young and replaced them with Nzogbia Hutton Ireland.  Add to that Petrov and Dunne aint getting any younger. It does not take a genious to workout what is going wrong. I dont think that you can put a balanced team out from the squad that we have at our disposal, none of the peices of the jigsaw fit and there are some peices missing.

[Villanation]

We have lost Milner Downing A Young Barry L Young and replaced them with Nzogbia Hutton Ireland.  Add to that Petrov and Dunne aint getting any younger. It does not take a genious to workout what is going wrong. I dont think that you can put a balanced team out from the squad that we have at our disposal, none of the peices of the jigsaw fit and there are some peices missing.

......and lack of balance is obvious as hell, right across the middle, we are going to have to address this or pay the price over a season, actually where it on the cards a few seasons back we are going to sign Ireland and N'Zogbia and Darren Bent into the same team i would have thought decent business, they ( Ireland and N'Zogbia) just haven't happened.

[ozzjim]

We have lost Milner Downing A Young Barry L Young and replaced them with Nzogbia Hutton Ireland.  Add to that Petrov and Dunne aint getting any younger. It does not take a genious to workout what is going wrong. I dont think that you can put a balanced team out from the squad that we have at our disposal, none of the peices of the jigsaw fit and there are some peices missing.

......and lack of balance is obvious as hell, right across the middle, we are going to have to address this or pay the price over a season, actually where it on the cards a few seasons back we are going to sign Ireland and N'Zogbia and Darren Bent into the same team i would have thought decent business, they ( Ireland and N'Zogbia) just haven't happened.

I was disappointed to see the formation that worked quite well against Wigan not really employed against Albion. I thought Ireland deserved to start at home after that game. We are desperately weak in the middle of the park though. Petrov is ageing and has not lasted 90 minutes well for 2 seasons, he ain't gonna start now. Dunne in in and out, Collins in 1 in 4 and hoofs it continually when there is no need. The worry for though is without Ireland there was no movement through midfield for Bent and Gabby to be able to find space, and he does at least provide that threat.

At Sunderland next week I would sit Clark with Petrov, I thought he was excellent there at times last season, and keeps the ball quite well while giving us a bit of extra height from set plays. Cuellar, Collins, Dunne and Donkey across the back 4, Clark Petrov sitting, with Ireland, Bannan and Gabby in front and Bent up on his own. NZogbia should be limited to 60 minutes and after at the moment, and I still think he is playing way too deep OR stick him at left back and drop Warnock.

[Jockey Randall]

I'd say we need at least 3 wins or 2 wins and 3 draws between now and the end of December. Obviously not the easiest set of fixtures but it can be done. With the way the league is shaping up this year I think there will be less points to be had for the also rans with the top getting stronger so I wouldnt be surprised if 50 points got 7th, which wouldn't be entirely out of reach with a good run somewhere in the new year. For now though I think we just need to get through this next quarter of the season maintaining somewhere around our current position and then push on after christmas.

[SoccerHQ]

The ironic thing is I reckon we'd have finished 4th in 09/10 if we'd signed Bent that summer. We might aswell have not bothered signing Downing given he was a) injured and b) would feck off when the going got tough and just used that money to match Sunderland's bid.

[UsualSuspect]

There is absolutely no doubt that the rushed appointment of Houllier and the disaster that was last season was a direct result of the spiteful departure of MON. He knew exactly what he was doing and I’m sure he enjoyed the fallout, as did his media chums.

However, when the club knew that Houllier could not reasonably carry on, we had a gilt edged chance to address the problem. Sure, we were never going to get Ancelotti, but the ranges of candidates were infinitely better than the first time of asking.

Now I’m not going to dredge up a topic that has been repeated ad infinitum since august, but I fail to see how the appointment of McLeish, the selling of our two best players and a failure to replace them with anything resembling quality can blamed on MON.

It just strikes me that the board has been determined to cut costs since MON departed and under McLeish they saw an opportunity to do this as quickly as possible, whilst still maintaining our status in the Premier League. As Dave W said, our attendances are plummeting but are in fact coming back to a level that most of us will recognise. I suspect the board has factored all of this in and despite repeated comments that they don’t know what they are doing, I think they know EXACTLY what they are doing.

While i agree MON's departure was meant to cause as much problems for us as possible, i'm not sure things would have been that rosy if he'd stayed. The bleak fact was "his team" had peaked a good 12 months earlier. In reality the rot set in when we didn't replace Barry but shuffled the pack instead and bought Downing who was crocked. It covered up the problems in the midfield short term but then Petrov started showing his age in MON's last season and once Milner went that was it frankly. We may not have been a 1 man team but there's no doubt a lot of the best things about the team went through Milner, and it always amazed me when people were claiming last season that this was the team that should be challenging for 6th like the season before - not with Milner gone and Petrov past it . Since then its been compounded by the loss of Young and Downing which mean we have very little quality left. Ireland has shown precious little of his undoubted ability, delpth is fast resembling a white elephant on the Davies scale, Makoun was shipped off after AM caught him passing the ball..... which leaves the kids basically who we all hope will prove to be world beaters but it doesn't look like its going to happen this season

Until that midfield is sorted out we're gonna struggle however we play and Lerner is going to have to spend or AM will go the way of Houllier. Once you factor in the compensation for the manager and his staff, and having to pay a new manager and maybe his old club, it would probably make more economic sense to bite the bullet and buy a quality midfielder but financially Randy seems determined to cut off his nose to spite his face.

Agree 100%

Milner was such a big loss but at least we got Ireland and Jenas will be like Bobby Charlton when he is fit..................probably in March

[cdward]

1pt from Sunderland is an absolute without doubt must have.

If a point against Sunderland is our ambition now, then things are probably worse than the OP feels.

[UsualSuspect]

Norwich will be no pushovers either a point at Anfield and unlucky at OT

[boboonthecorner]

I am a ST holder, have only not had a ST for 1 and a half seasons (Gregory days) in 23 years (shit that long....) and even the half a season I still went to almost all of the games.

I realised at the game yesterday that I just do not care anymore.....Its not that I don't care about Villa I just don't care about football.

We lost against local rivals, but what does it really matter?

That we will finish 11th, 10th, 9th, 8th maybe 7th or 6th

What does it matter ?

There's no romance left, we chuck the league cup, we don't really try in the FA cup we get into Europe only to throw the game and they want to get rid of relegation and promotion as we know it.

We don't stand any chance of competing with the top 4 or 5 cant compete to sign players, we lose any players that show a modicum of promise to bigger teams, we signed a manager who's track record is two relegations in 3 years and there's very little atmosphere at the games any more.

And they wonder why people are losing interest in football.

I walked away yesterday thinking of all the other more enjoyable ways I could spend my £450 next season....it will be some miraculous marketing effort to make me spend it with Villa next year.

Empty seats my lord....two more in the lower holte i think next season.

 

Exactly how I've felt for the past 3 seasons, totally lost interest apart from the occasional angry rant at our chairman on here every match!!