Manchester City v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread

[Chris Smith]

  I am amazed that people cannot see we are a soft touch these days.  As soon as something goes against us, our heads drop and they give up.  What happened to fighting spirit.

That's just not true. Our last two away games have seen us come from behind to get a point. As ever people try to extrapolate far too much from one game. You're just twisting the facts to suit a viewpoint.

Man City are a better team than us, in fact they've probably got two teams better than the first team of all but 3 or 4 other clubs. Poor defending cost us a couple of goals yesterday but they've been strong most of the season so I'm prepared to cut them some slack. I think all that did was change the score, not the result. If it had been a tighter game they had Silva, Nasri and Dzeko to bring on to exploit a tiring defence. I think those not getting their knickers in a twist are just being realistic.

No they haven't, we led at QPR and threw it away. The only league games we've gone behind in this season are Everton and yesterday.

Maybe people are twisting facts, but at least they are facts, unlike your post *winky*

Yes, you're right but we did come back from a first half battering down there to take the gem to them so the broader point still stands.

[Dave]

The difference should  be by how much a club earns in gate receipts not injection of enormous  unaccountable funds.

Why weren't you arguing this when Randy was injecting tens of millions of pounds into us then?

He only invested funds that could be serviced by the Club earnings. There were no  "gifted" cash funds given to Villa with no need to payback like Chelsea and Mancity.

I'd put a lot of money on the fact that we have spent considerably more than what the club "earns in gate receipts".

And if the money that he has put in can be 'serviced by the club's earnings' (which it can't) why has it stopped all of a sudden?

[Clampy]

I think you're confusing individual errors with performance, Greg.

I'm not surprised Greg has popped into this post match thread. He was nowhere to be seen in the Wigan one.

[BILL DE VALL]

We were poor vs Citeh -AM said he would offer Emile a new contract
What for???

[Greg N'Ash]

I think you're confusing individual errors with performance, Greg.

I'm not surprised Greg has popped into this post match thread. He was nowhere to be seen in the Wigan one.

!

[Risso]

He only invested funds that could be serviced by the Club earnings. There were no  "gifted" cash funds given to Villa with no need to payback like Chelsea and Mancity.

Absolutely, completely and utterly wrong.

[olaftab]

In that case what's the correct  position?

[olaftab]

I'd put a lot of money on the fact that we have spent considerably more than what the club "earns in gate receipts".

And if the money that he has put in can be 'serviced by the club's earnings' (which it can't) why has it stopped all of a sudden?

Well I would assume that the money to buy the club and the transfer money is a loan to the club from Randy (via some Finance house). This loan is now  at a level that if we were to "borrow" more than we are not able to keep up with repayments and therefore the money supply has stopped.

[old man villa fan]

  I am amazed that people cannot see we are a soft touch these days.  As soon as something goes against us, our heads drop and they give up.  What happened to fighting spirit.

That's just not true. Our last two away games have seen us come from behind to get a point. As ever people try to extrapolate far too much from one game. You're just twisting the facts to suit a viewpoint.

Man City are a better team than us, in fact they've probably got two teams better than the first team of all but 3 or 4 other clubs. Poor defending cost us a couple of goals yesterday but they've been strong most of the season so I'm prepared to cut them some slack. I think all that did was change the score, not the result. If it had been a tighter game they had Silva, Nasri and Dzeko to bring on to exploit a tiring defence. I think those not getting their knickers in a twist are just being realistic.

We came back to get a point against Everton and regardless of how Everton are playing, getting anything there over the years has always been a good result, I believe.  When was the other time we have come from behind (me twisting the facts!).

Chris, it is not just the reaction to one result.  We have played 5 of the bottom 7 teams and I do not think we looked convincing in any of those games.  Even in the two games we have won, there were long periods when we were second best to the two teams that are propping up the table.

Every week before the games I am not confident of us winning and it is not just this season, it was just the same in the MON years.  We seem incapable of dominating teams and we rely too much on the quality of individuals to win games.

So you are not getting your knickers in a twist and think you are being realistic.  Realistic about what?  I am being realistic (I think) in that we are not going to challenge the top 4 or 6 for many years unless there is a change in the financial status quo.  I do believe that we have the set up and standing to be the best of the rest and play entertaining/exciting football at the same time.

I thought last season we were starting to make some headway and progressing by slowly changing our style of play.  This season I see it being a step back to the MON years but without the star players.

I am concerned that being undefeated early season (until yesterday) has masked some uninspiring performances.  Granted that we have lost probably our two most influential players from last season (Bent's goals aside) but we have neither replaced them with players that play the same positions or strengthened the team in other positions so as to play a different type of game.

In my opinion, we seem to have stopped looking to the future and are only concerned with the next game.

By the way, when I say they give up, I mean they are just content with going through the motions.  When was the last time you could see them roll up their sleeves, get the bit between the teeth and really go for it.  We still have some quality strikers that can score goals out of the blue and, thus, makes us seem better than we are.

4 of our next 5 matches are again against easier opposition and we need to be picking up 10 to 12 points from these games.  If not, we are going to be going into a very difficult December looking down rather than up, with the threat of relegation being talked of again.  If that is the case, come the turn of the year, I am afraid the calls for a new manager will be strong and could turn very nasty. 

[Legion]

Great post, OMVF.

[Risso]

I'd put a lot of money on the fact that we have spent considerably more than what the club "earns in gate receipts".

And if the money that he has put in can be 'serviced by the club's earnings' (which it can't) why has it stopped all of a sudden?

Well I would assume that the money to buy the club and the transfer money is a loan to the club from Randy (via some Finance house). This loan is now  at a level that if we were to "borrow" more than we are not able to keep up with repayments and therefore the money supply has stopped.

All the money Lerner has put in has come from his family trust.  Half has been injected in the form of share capital, and half in the form of loan notes.  The loans are due to be repaid in the next 6+ years.  We've made big losses for the last two years, of about £85m for the two years combined.  As to why the cash has stopped, well that's something that only Lerner really knows, although I think a combination of him taking some big hits on the general value of his core investments, plus the desire to scale back after O'Neill wasted half of the money given to him is probably not far off the mark.

[Chris Smith]

Omvf, I was specifically talking about there bring no fighting spirit and us being a soft touch. That was true for large parts of last season but not this one. Until yesterday we've been strong defensively and the argument about us not playing anyone doesn't really hold water as anyone coukd score against us last season. 

Performances have been patchy but the effort and application have been there.

[olaftab]

I'd put a lot of money on the fact that we have spent considerably more than what the club "earns in gate receipts".

And if the money that he has put in can be 'serviced by the club's earnings' (which it can't) why has it stopped all of a sudden?

Well I would assume that the money to buy the club and the transfer money is a loan to the club from Randy (via some Finance house). This loan is now  at a level that if we were to "borrow" more than we are not able to keep up with repayments and therefore the money supply has stopped.

All the money Lerner has put in has come from his family trust.  Half has been injected in the form of share capital, and half in the form of loan notes.  The loans are due to be repaid in the next 6+ years.  We've made big losses for the last two years, of about £85m for the two years combined.  As to why the cash has stopped, well that's something that only Lerner really knows, although I think a combination of him taking some big hits on the general value of his core investments, plus the desire to scale back after O'Neill wasted half of the money given to him is probably not far off the mark.

Thank you. I assume  Club are paying interest on the outstanding loans.

[DB]

Although the Man City fan makes a good case, the fact is that someone with unlimited wealth has turned up and is literally buying all the top prizes in football like it was some casual purchase. How can that be good for the game? Whatever Man City win now, it won't mean anything. No managerial genius, no team building, no real achievement. Just throw the cash on the table and collect the trophies.

Spot on. When that fat balloon head David Platt can start making out he is a coaching genius football is in trouble.

When they won the FA cup last season, one of the knobs on Sky said it was a great acheivement - bollox, it what was expected after all the money spent. City's situation has taken money from being factor to a huge difference in competing for trophies. A few years ago they were nothing. I saw a young lad in Reading yesterday with a full Citeh kit on - it's started.

[Villanation]

As a City fan, I'm interested in the comments on here particularly as regards the death of the game etc etc. I was saying exactly the same before we won the lottery in 2008. How is it different now that City have money except that there are now 5 or 6 teams that can compete rather than the previous 3 ?

Yep, we've spent £*** [insert your own made-up figure here] billions of pounds but you have to to join the Sky 4. It has always been a cartel for goodness sake and no-one, but no-one, is going to join that self-interested club  from a standing start without spending that sort of money. Having spent our way into the reckoning you'll see that we no longer have to spend more each year than say, United, to stay there.

City players are "mercenaries" ? well knock me down with a feather, who'd have suspected that professional footballers were motivated by money ? As for the salaries, we, and any other club lucky enough to find itself in our position, have to pay high basic salaries because we simply can't compete yet (and possibly never will)  with the worldwide personal sponsorship and image rights deals that Sky4 players get as soon as they sign on the dotted line.

Sure the Premier League is all about money, it has been for 19 years which is why only rich clubs have won it (and, in the two exceptional cases, nearly bankrupted themselves in the process) but we didn't light that particular fire.   

As far as Villa are concerned. It's difficult to say anything encouraging from yesterday's performance without sounding patronising but you have stood by them in worse times than these, and with worse teams than this, by a long way and I know for certain that the majority of you will continue to do so because that's what you do. The day before our investors took over, we survived only on hope and had no idea what was around the corner for us. Neither do you. Just hang in there and do what we did for 35 years, take what enjoyment you can, where you can. Things change, something will turn up.

I think the mistake your making is that you are of the impression that people commenting about the vast amounts of money being spent is solely about Man City and in some way you feel its directed at Man City because it is Man City, not so.

I personally was saying the same to a lesser degree when Abramovich was throwing it about at Chelsea, the problem is in the case of your owners they have taken it to the e nth degree, all of a sudden the game has taken a twist where struggle to achieve and endeavour has gone out the window and has been replaced with whoever can throw the most money at it, problem is and just like the global economy when things get out of hand to this level there is only one outcome, mark my words, its coming and it will happen in football, all this will come to an abrupt end simply because when you go down this road ask yourself,,,where does it end.

We are already seeing the money men making suggestions of how the market should be freer and that the top clubs should be free to exploit TV rights, Liverpool at the moment, I wouldn't mind betting your sheiks are thinking, "this makes sense" as I'm sure are the Glaziers, problem is carry on like this and you won't be playing clubs like Villa, Everton, Wigan and many others, they will simply cease to exist.

My reasons for saying something should be done isn't just about money its about the fact that the very idea of being able to see dream players making up dream teams you would think would have the impact on fans of all teams that they are seeing something incredibly wonderful, fact is its having the exact opposite effect, people I talk to are getting very very bored with football, the old excitement of seeing a team in the UK week in and week out that could encompass skills through players like Silva, Aguerro, Balotelli and many others, simply isn't there, in fact its like dog shit these day's, its everywhere.

Its killing the game mate, not Man City, but the whole concept of overwhelming wealth.

Seriously, do you not think something is wrong in football when many fans psychologically look at the next fixture and see we are playing Man Utd or Man City, Chelsea, and think phuk that not worth throwing the money away on it, I'll wait till we play someone we can actually get a game with.