Television rights - individual overseas rights deals.

[Percy McCarthy]

So if this takes 3 or 4 years to get off the ground, and Man City over take them in the pecking order, Lets say they only make the Europa League. Does that equate to more MANC shirts being sold than liverpool ones. If they fall down the pecking order, will they still be so keen?

Of course not. They can see it coming, that's why they're shitting it.

[Percy McCarthy]

Let them go and watch the fall out from Liverpool, ManU fans when they're not playing agains teams in this country.

This is where the rest of the clubs need to be strong. 'Go away and play in your own league, but you're not playing in ours'.

If they want to play in our league they must accept the collective, equally distributed overseas TV deal. What worries me is that the other clubs bow and scrape and give in to certain demands of the Sky 4/5 so we retain the 'pleasure' of playing them.

[Percy McCarthy]

Good. Let them all. Which no doubt Spuds will join in and consist of the 5 other clubs.

Then we and the rest can organise a break away league, a true top tier, part of the actual football league based on a more equal model. Their crappy 6 club league would stand alone and will be pretty boring without relegations thus reducing the overall appeal. A 6 club competition, wow how exciting(!). We can even let them have the shitty name 'premiership' just for Sky's good measure.

Eventually they'll start playing more games abroad and forget their true identity loosing their core fan base whilst we, Everton and other clubs who stayed true to what football is grow in strength nationally and profit from their decline for being corporate whores.

Just how I see it. What we must pray for is that club owners see the big picture and the long-term panning out this way, rather than being seduced by some short-term crumbs or other that the top few offer in exchange for compliance. The top four owners are money-obsessed, but the rest of the owners hardly fill me with confidence either.

[pauliewalnuts]

If they want to play in our league they must accept the collective, equally distributed overseas TV deal. What worries me is that the other clubs bow and scrape and give in to certain demands of the Sky 4/5 so we retain the 'pleasure' of playing them.

I don't think there's much chance of that to be honest, turkeys don't vote for Christmas.

The top four owners are money-obsessed, but the rest of the owners hardly fill me with confidence either.

The rest of them are fairly money obsessed, too, which I suspect will be the thing that stops this happening.

[Risso]

It'll be funny when all the unheard of teams owned by oil oligarchs in Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan and the like come in and ruin football for the likes of Barcelona and Man U.  That'll larn 'em.

[Concrete John]

Those at the top wanting a bigger slice of the pie is what lead to the formation of the PL as the other clubs said 'no'.   I can see no other answer from the other 14/15 clubs in the PL this time around, so they either lump it or fuck off.  Thing is though, I think they'll lump it as the way a Euro league with no promotion/relegation or a 6 team league would stagnate will not be lost on them.  One of the reasons the PL is so popular is that it's very competitive, as the likes of Bolton refuse to accept their place in the pecking order that Liverpool have chosen for them.  Lose that and the attraction of the PL goes down quite a few notches.

All this will end up with is a bit more money going to the league placings side of things to keep them happy.

[darren woolley]

It's all about money the root of all evil.

[Percy McCarthy]

If they want to play in our league they must accept the collective, equally distributed overseas TV deal. What worries me is that the other clubs bow and scrape and give in to certain demands of the Sky 4/5 so we retain the 'pleasure' of playing them.

I don't think there's much chance of that to be honest, turkeys don't vote for Christmas.

The top four owners are money-obsessed, but the rest of the owners hardly fill me with confidence either.

The rest of them are fairly money obsessed, too, which I suspect will be the thing that stops this happening.

Yes, hopefully they will see this as an opportunity. Domestic and European TV rights devalued by the recent pub landlord ruling, Champions League TV revenue under threat as well from the same ruling. The really valuable TV rights, and the one with real potential for growth, now more than ever,  is the world-wide Premiership deal - the only one that is evenly distributed. If this is handled properly by the fifteen other clubs, we could have the dream scenario of a competitive league on our hands. Bear in mind that if all the clubs become more equal, there could be a snowball effect that might impact on the sponsorship deals and match-day income of the Sky 4/5/6 as well.

If they do breakaway, we'd need UEFA to be strong, protecting it's national associations by leaving us with the European competetions. Wouldn't it be great if it all went back to the previous formats? I'm getting ahead of myself here, just dreaming aloud.

[avwebby]

I was 10 when the premier league started, and did not have sky till 98 and all I knew was I missed it on normal tv on crap pitches in the winter.

Truth is Liverpool would not have a product to sell to the mass foriegn market without the likes of Bolton agreeing to it, so essentially they are saying they want to just watch us and whoever we play does not matter. In which case feck off, along with City, United, Chelsea and whoever and play in some European league which will fall flat in 5 seasons and then when you beg to come back you can bugger off. Lower prices for the rest, have lower wages at specified amounts, make it sensible and much more appealing than it is now. Football has become an ordeal to me, and things like this, Man City etc are the reason why. Even Rooney, 200k a week, multi, multi millionaire being dumba nd unproffessional enough to kick some serbian annoyed me the other night. Mad world. Bring back muddy pitches, grass stained shirts, long hair and big beards.

And jumpers for goalposts....Go have your Supa league and leave footie to those not overtaken by corporate greed. And also a European Cup for those winners of the league not for the all powerful cartel. Football is imploding and I for one can't wait

[NeilH]

If they want to play in our league they must accept the collective, equally distributed overseas TV deal. What worries me is that the other clubs bow and scrape and give in to certain demands of the Sky 4/5 so we retain the 'pleasure' of playing them.

I don't think there's much chance of that to be honest, turkeys don't vote for Christmas.

The top four owners are money-obsessed, but the rest of the owners hardly fill me with confidence either.

The rest of them are fairly money obsessed, too, which I suspect will be the thing that stops this happening.

Yes, hopefully they will see this as an opportunity. Domestic and European TV rights devalued by the recent pub landlord ruling, Champions League TV revenue under threat as well from the same ruling. The really valuable TV rights, and the one with real potential for growth, now more than ever,  is the world-wide Premiership deal - the only one that is evenly distributed. If this is handled properly by the fifteen other clubs, we could have the dream scenario of a competitive league on our hands. Bear in mind that if all the clubs become more equal, there could be a snowball effect that might impact on the sponsorship deals and match-day income of the Sky 4/5/6 as well.

If they do breakaway, we'd need UEFA to be strong, protecting it's national associations by leaving us with the European competetions. Wouldn't it be great if it all went back to the previous formats? I'm getting ahead of myself here, just dreaming aloud.

Nope that’s just crazy talk and the kind of thing that would get you kicked out of the UEFA’s plush HQ. Why on earth would we want to do away with utterly tedious group games played out between two teams with sweet FA chance of being anything but whipping fodder for the Mega teams and replace with a knockout games that could create upsets. Imagine the upset (financial loss) if Real were to be turned over by let’s say Wisla Krakow and knocked out.

[Small Rodent]

It'll be funny when all the unheard of teams owned by oil oligarchs in Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan and the like come in and ruin football for the likes of Barcelona and Man U.  That'll larn 'em.

This I would love. I'd even buy a Kazakh shirt if it happened.

[olaftab]

For all the righteous anger, this is no more than we did when the Premier League started. We've no right to be planting our flagpole on Mt Moral.

What if you were against then, and you're against it now?

Indeed. While I've got sympathy for DW's argument, it wasn't 'us', was it, it was Ellis, Sugar et al. We didn't really have a say.

Good point, but there weren't many of us who objected.

But than it didn't  affect us now it will...hmmm I see where this is going!

[olaftab]

Surely the masterplan Scudmissile and  all PL club owners  should be thinking about is how to make the League more competitive  not less.  If PL does end up like  La Liga or  SPL than it's good night from us.

[not3bad]

If PL does end up like  La Liga or  SPL

It isn't yet then?

[Billy Walker]

I understand this argument from Ian Ayre:

"What is absolutely certain is that, with the greatest of respect to our colleagues in the Premier League, but if you're a Bolton fan in Bolton, then you subscribe to Sky because you want to watch Bolton. Everyone gets that. Likewise, if you're a Liverpool fan from Liverpool, you subscribe. But if you're in Kuala Lumpur there isn't anyone subscribing to Astro, or ESPN to watch Bolton, or if they are it's a very small number. Whereas the large majority are subscribing because they want to watch Liverpool, Manchester United, Chelsea or Arsenal"

But what he fails to recognize is that he needs a Bolton in order to play a match in the first place.  If there were no Boltons then there would be no games for his team to play (apart from the other three he mentions).  It's time for the Boltons to call his bluff and threaten Liverpool with a breakaway.