Safe Standing Petition.

[villa `cross the mersey]

Many people's objection to standing seems to be purely "It's not going to happen".

It sounds so pompous, gives the impression of absolute certainty when in reality people are only guessing.

I can just imagine these people in other situations. 'Votes for women? Not going to happen'.

'National Health Service? Not going to happen'

'Gaddafi out? Don't make me laugh!'

None of these things would have happened if everybody sat around whining 'not going to happen'.

Here`s one that ain`t gonna happen - "Dave Woodhall handing out change for a tenner when he was presented with a fiver"............only kidding Dave

[Dave Cooper please]

Here`s one that ain`t gonna happen - "Dave Woodhall handing out change for a tenner when he was presented with a fiver"............only kidding Dave

Whisper it quietly, but I sold someone a fanzine for £1.80 last week because he had no more on him. I still feel racked with guilt.

[Withe Gusto]

I'm not sure there's an "anti-terracing brigade"; personally I couldn't give a monkey's whether people stand or not.  But you're way off track in saying there isn't a single coherent argument to support all-seater stadia: there are plenty in the Taylor Report.  The objections to sitting (as opposed to standing) that were raised then are the same ones being raised now.  As I said before, if the powers that be are even to consider standing areas they're going to need to see some hard evidence that such areas are safer than current arrangements, in the context of British football.  I don't think their first question will be "Does it work in Germany?"

This isn't about "gentrification" of football or the persecution of football supporters - it's about safety.  I totally accept that some fans want to stand up at football matches.  Unfortunately for them, what those fans have to accept is that as things stand their preferences are secondary to the safety reasons set out in the Taylor Report. 

If you're expecting full disclosure of the Hillsborough documents to support the idea that standing is safer than sitting I think you're going to be disappointed.

I support the petition to re-instate seating.
I loved the old Holte. I never felt un-safe. I hate the lack of leg-room and the lack of atmosphere at VP now.

Seriously though, I have some questions about what is said above:

Did other countries see fit to adopt their own "Taylor Reports" after Hillsborough? Did UEFA/FIFA change any regulations about terrace safety?

Why isnt it relevant to compare our football to German football? What is the main difference? Perhaps because Germans can be trusted to behave themselves? Thats a sad state of affairs if thats the case.

Would the Hillsborough disaster have happened if that stand was all - seater?
As i understand it, the over-crowding happened because lots of fans suddenly surged into the stand without tickets, then the immovable fence prevented people escaping the resulting crush, so the disaster was caused initially, and crucially, by poor crowd control, rather than the lack of seats in the stand.

[philsheard]

Provided the terraced section is properly managed with only a certain number of fans allowed in and no more and with no fences I can't see how there can be a repeat of Hillsborough.  With the modern technology available to clubs today with season ticket cards for entry etc it should be impossible for a repeat. 

[hawkeye]

What happened at Hillsborough gave the Authoritys the oppportunity to react to the behaviour that happened in and around football stadiums in the 70s and 80s.

[oldtimernow]

Designated member standing area with card controlled access  zones of only specified maximum number of people could work and bring some much needed atmosphere back

[djbone]

Designated member standing area with card controlled access  zones of only specified maximum number of people could work and bring some much needed atmosphere back

Exactly. There is no reason at all this couldn't be brought in. I stand by what I said - the way some people meekly accept the greed of English football is remarkable.  The glaring alternative model of what happens in Germany gives the English FA and government no valid excuses whatsoever.  And our club currently has, what, 8-10,000 reasons to support such a move.

[oldtimernow]

Standing on or near seats to mind is more of a risk to safety especially when there is no method of control of who or where people stand

[Holy Trinity]

signed great idea, lower middle holte or lower middle north stand 2 blocks each end safe standing would be great, wont block anyones view, i dont think it will happen but it is worth a try

[spangley1812]

signed great idea, lower middle holte or lower middle north stand 2 blocks each end safe standing would be great, wont block anyones view, i dont think it will happen but it is worth a try

It will block the views of the people sitting in the blocks next to the "standing" blocks........It could only work in the corners 

[bertlambshank]

Two strikes and your out!

To stand or not to stand: that is the question: Whether 'tis nobler in the crowd to suffer the boredom and passivity of sitting down or to stand up against the wishes of outrageous management, and by opposing, get kicked out. To stand, to sit? No more.

With the help of noted Cleveland Browns fan Bill Shakespeare, we present the star-crossed tale of Rob Stipe, a Dawg Pound fan who dresses up for games in a wig, face paint and shoulder pads and was recently kicked out of his seat at Cleveland Browns Stadium for standing up too much during games.


Stipe, a ticket holder of 25 years, was told by security personnel to sit during the first quarter of Sunday's game when he was standing during a third down. Later in the game, he was standing again and was asked to leave his seat due to a new rule that immediately boots second-offenders.


Stipe insists his standing isn't excessive. Adam Wright of The Chronicle-Telegram explains:
According to Stipe, "excessive standing" has become a bit of a no-no at Cleveland Browns Stadium over the last few seasons. Last year, he was also scolded for the offense and three sheriff's deputies were sent to meet him outside the bathroom to tell him to use his seat more.
"We do not stand all the time," the 35-year-old explained, referring to the as many as 12 friends and family who share season tickets. "We stand on first down, we stand at the beginning of this game, we stand at kickoff. We stand. We are standers, but we're also courteous to other people. If somebody says, 'Hey man, will you sit down?' Sure, I will love to sit down for you. No problem."


A Browns official told the newspaper that the standing rule is enforced only if other fans complain and that security personnel aren't scanning the crowd for standers. Stipe, who said he always honors requests to sit, admitted later in the story that he'd prefer everyone to stand.


"I hate the people who sit down at a game," he said. "It's not that I try to stand and [expletive] everyone off. I want everyone to stand so that when we're on national TV we don't look like lumps on a log."


National TV? We're talking about the Browns here, right?


Look, I sympathize with Stipe. I much prefer standing to sitting while at games; it makes me feel like I'm into the game more. It also looks much better on television. But the decision to stand or sit is a collective one made by the crowd. If the people behind you aren't standing and aren't taking cues from you to stand, you're a jerk if you keep doing it. Stipe tells a sob story, but I'm guessing his one-sided account leaves out some key details about the extent of his standing, the annoyance of the crowd behind him or his reaction to security personnel. If his version is the complete truth, this is a preposterous miscarriage of ticket-holder justice. More likely than not, he wasn't booted for standing as much as he was for refusing to sit.
And we wonder why no team in the league fears coming to CBS. I have heard MANY stories like Stipes since the Gestapo moved to Cleveland in '99.

[E I Adio]

I loved standing on the Holte in my youth and couldn't have contemplated sitting. Later, when I actually had a little disposable income and the football had become so bad as to remind me that my feet were aching well before halftime, my mate and I opted for a seat in the Trinity. In 25 years or so in that same seat, I cannot ever remember anyone spoiling my enjoyment of the game by standing up in front of me.

I rarely go to games now, for a number of reasons, but one of the reasons is that I always seem to get some selfish dickhead leaping to his feet 5 seconds before a goal is scored, thus obliterating my view. Unfortunately, I'm not so quick to my feet these days now that I have to live with the consequences of an old football injury, so it really pisses me off.

If safe standing areas were available, both the people who chose to sit and those who chose to stand would benefit. And I might just go a little more often.

[Bad English]

I rarely go to games now, for a number of reasons, but one of the reasons is that I always seem to get some selfish dickhead leaping to his feet 5 seconds before a goal is scored, thus obliterating my view.

To be fair, it doesn't happen all that often though, does it?

[E I Adio]

I rarely go to games now, for a number of reasons, but one of the reasons is that I always seem to get some selfish dickhead leaping to his feet 5 seconds before a goal is scored, thus obliterating my view.

To be fair, it doesn't happen all that often though, does it?

That's what makes it worse.

[Bad English]

Not to mention all the standing for missed sitters.