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Author Topic: Wages, wages, wages....  (Read 27211 times)

Offline Toronto Villa

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Re: Wages, wages, wages....
« Reply #60 on: August 05, 2011, 02:51:03 PM »
I thought this is quite a good article to add to this debate about a club in similar stature to ourselves facing much of the same issues and frustrations that we are.

Quote
Six years after flirting with elite, Everton are still pining

Tonight's visitors to Goodison bring a bitter reminder that the promised land has grown more remote each year

By Simon Hart

Friday, 5 August 2011
Thoughts of what might have been will enter Evertonian minds when Villarreal visit Goodison Park for the Merseysiders' final pre-season friendly tonight.

It was against the Spanish club in 2005 that Everton fell one step short of the Champions League group stage, in a qualifier remembered for Pierluigi Collina's mystifying decision to rule out a potentially pivotal Duncan Ferguson goal.

After a 2-1 home defeat, Everton thought they had restored parity at El Madrigal when, after Mikel Arteta's free-kick had made it 1-1 on the night, Ferguson powered home a header from a corner. Instead Collina whistled for a perceived infringement by Marcus Bent on Gonzalo Rodriguez, when TV cameras showed the pair merely jostling for position.

Villarreal, who salted the wound with a second goal at the death, reached the semi-finals; Everton, despite twice surpassing the points total that earned them fourth place in the Premier League in 2004-05, have not got closer to modern football's promised land since.

Mick Rathbone, part of David Moyes' Goodison inner sanctum for eight years as Everton's head of science, recalls the "amazing damp squib" that followed the feat of finishing fourth. Arteta had warned that Villarreal were the team to avoid, and so it proved. "When Villarreal came out, there was a kind of deathly silence – it was a draw we didn't want. [Moyes] really felt that was the chance to move Everton on and become that top-four team," says Rathbone, adding that disappointment melded with anger once they reviewed Collina's decision and "realised that was a blatant mistake".

As the 10th full season of Moyes' reign approaches, a more pertinent question than "what if?" is "what next?" for a club who won the last of their nine league titles 25 years ago next May. A section of Everton's support has become increasingly active in voicing its frustrations with owner Bill Kenwright and his board over their failure to find the necessary investment to back Moyes in the transfer market even modestly.

Everton's debt is an estimated £45m and, according to the chief executive, Robert Elstone, in a blog on the club website, "the squeeze on money is harder than ever". The contrast with their close neighbours could not be more striking. While the Liverpool manager, Kenny Dalglish, has recruited £100m worth of new players in 2011, Moyes, whose side have finished one place behind their rivals for three of the last four seasons, has spent no more than £2m combined in the past three windows and must again sell before he can buy.

Kenwright's critics also point to the failed ground moves to Kings Dock and Kirkby; the fact Goodison Park has remained essentially untouched for 17 years means it generates roughly one-fifth of the income Old Trafford does on a match day. This week a coalition of protest groups called the Blue Union and comprising Keep Everton In Our City (which campaigned against Kirkby), Evertonians for Change, The People's Group and School of Science 1878, issued a press release complaining about "stagnation" and a "lack of transparency".

Keep Everton In Our City member Dave Kelly says: "It is sad Evertonians have become accustomed and accept it as the norm that we have to sell to buy. Do we only aspire to finish seventh or do we attempt to kick on?"

Even the defender Sylvain Distin, responding on Twitter to fans' queries about Moyes' reported interest in the Aston Villa-bound Charles N'Zogbia, suggested: "[It] seems like we can't afford no one [sic] at the moment."

It is a far cry from last summer, when a rare outbreak of pre-season optimism followed the strong finish to 2009-10 – two defeats in 24 Premier League games – and Moyes' success in keeping his squad intact. Even Sir Alex Ferguson echoed Moyes' belief that a Champions League push was not beyond Everton, yet a poor start and lack of a reliable striker cost them. Moyes still needs that forward and had hoped to raise money by selling Yakubu and Joseph Yobo; the question now is whether he sacrifices a key asset like Phil Jagielka to fund moves, or relies on the loan market.

Despite the constraints, Rathbone says it is wrong to assume it is all doom and gloom at Everton's Finch Farm HQ. A highlight of his highly entertaining and insightful autobiography, The Smell of Football, is his insight into Moyes' working methods, and he says: "The idea that he has been sitting there bashing his head against the wall is wrong."

Each pre-season Moyes "paid attention to small things to make things a bit fresher and more stimulating", adds Rathbone, who also worked with him at Preston. "The summer before last he started putting the satnav vests on one or two players to make sure we saw what they were doing in training. It doesn't cost the same as a £20m player but is a little tap on the shoulder for everybody – 'We're going forward, boys'."

Everton's academy also ensures some "evolution" and the promising pre-season showings of 17-year-old midfielder Ross Barkley, now recovered from a broken leg suffered on England Under-19 duty, provide one source of hope.

The club's straitened circumstances, Rathbone declares, also guarantee a formidable team spirit and it is telling that neither of their highly rated England defenders, the Arsenal target Jagielka and Leighton Baines, appears in any rush to leave. "The tightness of the squad and the tightness of the people who work there make it, I would suggest, quite a unique situation in modern-day Premier League football."

This backs-to-the-wall quality will be essential if Moyes is ever to fulfil the wish he reiterated before his 400th game last December to "lift one of those silver things" with a club once known as the Mersey Millionaires.

Moyes' moves in the market

Transfers so far this summer:

In Eric Dier (loan from Sporting Lisbon)

Out James Vaughan (£2m, Norwich City)

Summer 2010

In Jermaine Beckford (free), Jan Mucha (free), Magaye Gueye (£900,000), Joao Silva (undisclosed).

Main sale None

2010-11 finish 54pts, 7th position

Summer 2009

In Diniyar Bilyaletdinov (£9m), Sylvain Distin (£5m), John Heitinga (£6m), Lucas Neill (free), Jo (loan), [plus youngsters Cody Arnoux (undisclosed) and Shkodran Mustafi (free plus Fifa training compensation)].

Main sale Joleon Lescott for £22m

2009-10 finish 61pts, 8th position

Summer 2008

In Marouane Fellaini (£15m), Louis Saha (undisclosed), Carlos Nash (free), Lars Jacobsen (free), Segundo Castillo (loan).

Main sale Andrew Johnson for £10m

2008-09 finish 63pts, 5th position; FA Cup finalists

Moyes' six best buys:

Tim Cahill £2m, Millwall, 2004

Mikel Arteta £2.2m, Real Sociedad, 2005

Phil Jagielka £4m, Sheffield United, 2007

Steven Pienaar £2.05m, Borussia Dortmund, 2008

Seamus Coleman £60k, Sligo Rovers, 2009

Landon Donovan loan, LA Galaxy, 2010

Offline oldtimernow

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Re: Wages, wages, wages....
« Reply #61 on: August 05, 2011, 02:53:43 PM »
A lot of tightness talked about there....perhaps we should get used to this austerity budget...after all we're in this together

Online Dante Lavelli

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Re: Wages, wages, wages....
« Reply #62 on: August 05, 2011, 02:55:05 PM »
Minor amount in the greater scheme if things but you also need to add the wages of the manager and his team plus the support staff, secretaries etc etc.

Offline IFWaters

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Re: Wages, wages, wages....
« Reply #63 on: August 06, 2011, 06:34:18 PM »
Good last point but the manager is probably on 2-3m a year plus his staff on another 1 million. Even if Villa then employ another 100 people on an average of £30k a year (including Faulkener and the like) thats only 3m - so maybe 7-8m tops for all the non-playing staff wages.

I think the previous point made that the figures quoted in the media may not include tax and NI could be right - but if it is that means say Darren Bent on £65k a week AFTER tax equates to him costing the club approx £150k a week after 50% income tax and employers and employees NI totalling approx a further 25%. If true that means he costs us £8m a year.

Online dave.woodhall

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Re: Wages, wages, wages....
« Reply #64 on: August 07, 2011, 01:39:25 AM »
Good last point but the manager is probably on 2-3m a year plus his staff on another 1 million. Even if Villa then employ another 100 people on an average of £30k a year (including Faulkener and the like) thats only 3m - so maybe 7-8m tops for all the non-playing staff wages.

I think the previous point made that the figures quoted in the media may not include tax and NI could be right - but if it is that means say Darren Bent on £65k a week AFTER tax equates to him costing the club approx £150k a week after 50% income tax and employers and employees NI totalling approx a further 25%. If true that means he costs us £8m a year.

When you earn Darren Bent-sized wages paying tax is optional.

Offline KevinGage

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Re: Wages, wages, wages....
« Reply #65 on: August 07, 2011, 05:06:20 AM »
I wonder what the Everton fans made of this part in particular:


Quote
"The summer before last he started putting the satnav vests on one or two players to make sure we saw what they were doing in training. It doesn't cost the same as a £20m player but is a little tap on the shoulder for everybody – 'We're going forward, boys."


Reassuring, eh?

Offline Greg N'Ash

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Re: Wages, wages, wages....
« Reply #66 on: August 07, 2011, 10:37:00 AM »
that Moyes buy list just shows what you can do on a limited budget really. Arteta, Cahill and Jakielka for the same we paid for Davies *facepalm*

Offline VillaZogmariner

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Re: Wages, wages, wages....
« Reply #67 on: August 07, 2011, 11:12:06 AM »
that Moyes buy list just shows what you can do on a limited budget really. Arteta, Cahill and Jakielka for the same we paid for Davies *facepalm*

Yakubu - £14.5m
Andy Johnson - £9.6m
Bilywhodyanickabollockov - £8.8m
Andy Van Der Meyde - £7.9m
James Beattie - £7.9m

You're right, Moyes is fantastic with his "limited" budget.

Offline Greg N'Ash

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Re: Wages, wages, wages....
« Reply #68 on: August 07, 2011, 12:35:15 PM »
that Moyes buy list just shows what you can do on a limited budget really. Arteta, Cahill and Jakielka for the same we paid for Davies *facepalm*

Yakubu - £14.5m
Andy Johnson - £9.6m
Bilywhodyanickabollockov - £8.8m
Andy Van Der Meyde - £7.9m
James Beattie - £7.9m

You're right, Moyes is fantastic with his "limited" budget.


well he made a profit on johnson. I don't know where you're getting these fee's but according to wiki Beattie cost 6m and was sold for 4m. de meyde cost 2m. hardly MON type losses. yakubu cost 11.25m and was the first everton striker since Beardsley to get 20 goals a season and was doing pretty good until he ruptured his achilles. Bilyaletdinov has managed 50 appearances in 2 season so not a write off yet i'd say. Anyway all managers makes transfers mistakes. its the scale of them that counts. that little lot would be more than covered by just Lescott's sale
« Last Edit: August 07, 2011, 12:39:29 PM by Greg N'Ash »

Offline VillaZogmariner

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Re: Wages, wages, wages....
« Reply #69 on: August 07, 2011, 12:45:21 PM »
So you're forgiving Moyes for his transfer mistakes, but didn't mind sticking the knife in with MoN for his transfer mistakes?

Offline Greg N'Ash

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Re: Wages, wages, wages....
« Reply #70 on: August 07, 2011, 12:52:40 PM »
As i said Moyes transfer mistakes were less frequent and covered by his transfer successes., you can afford to drop the occassional bollock if you can pick up Cahil, Jagielka and arteta for 8m and sell rooney and Lescott for 47m

Offline VillaZogmariner

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Re: Wages, wages, wages....
« Reply #71 on: August 07, 2011, 01:07:30 PM »
As i said Moyes transfer mistakes were less frequent and covered by his transfer successes., you can afford to drop the occassional bollock if you can pick up Cahil, Jagielka and arteta for 8m and sell rooney and Lescott for 47m

How about selling Milner and Downing for £46m?

Offline Eigentor

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Re: Wages, wages, wages....
« Reply #72 on: August 07, 2011, 01:08:54 PM »
Moyes is somewhat overrated. He has made transfer mistakes like anyone else, but not as frequently and costly as MON. The biggest reason that Everton has plateaued is lack of resources, but it's also because Moyes isn't the kind of genius he's sometimes portrayed as. Apart from little money to spend, he's enjoyed continuity and stability at Everton -- he has worked under quite benign circumstances compared to many PL managers.

Offline Greg N'Ash

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Re: Wages, wages, wages....
« Reply #73 on: August 07, 2011, 01:15:27 PM »
As i said Moyes transfer mistakes were less frequent and covered by his transfer successes., you can afford to drop the occassional bollock if you can pick up Cahil, Jagielka and arteta for 8m and sell rooney and Lescott for 47m

How about selling Milner and Downing for £46m?


ah but they were't cheap in the first place were they? 22m roughly? compare that with rooney and lescott. 5m? and all the others like Jagielka who arsenal are rumoured to be interested in for 15-17m

Offline VillaZogmariner

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Re: Wages, wages, wages....
« Reply #74 on: August 07, 2011, 01:25:30 PM »
Moyes was lucky with Rooney, as in inheriting him. Had Rooney been coming through the Villa system and MoN sold him for £28m or however much it was you'd be saying that.

 


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