Wages, wages, wages....

[Toronto Villa]

The problem at Villa is we are paying alot of average footballers huge amounts, we simply cannot afford to add more wages, however I don't believe that should stop us strengthening, I honestly think next year is when we'll see the best of our club, we'll clear alot of the deadwood, this season may be similar to MON's first, work with what you have, then the likes of Heskey, Young, Petrov, Cuellar, Beye will all hopefully leave that's potentially 250k a week there in wages, then use scouting to find us better players, like would Nathanial Clyne have been any worse than Beye? He would have been 20k cheaper. That's why I would steer clear of Parker and Barton.

I think every Prem club are paying average footballers in their squads huge amounts - we are not unique

Who have Spurs bought? Yet they will lose a huge player for them and probably be followed by the other names as they get frustrated at not having CL football
I think this close season has been the lowest for player activity and as usual its really only the top predator clubs that have bought for top end players

For all our gnashing - imagine being a poor Everton fan

I agree entirely Hookey. I know there's an overall malaise on here, but outside of an initial burst of activity from Man U, Liverpool and Sunderland, there's really nothing else going on in the market outside of the odd deal here and there. There's a lot of players unsigned because either the majority of the clubs have taken a different approach to fees and wages as we have as it relates to FFP, or there are players still living in the clouds with wages demands that may have been fine two years ago, but are no longer in the real world. And I haven't even mentioned inflated transfer fees and agent fees yet.

I know we've lost a lot of players, but most of them were utterly useless. Most clubs haven't been able to sign players, and whether those managers have been as vocal as ours has, outside of a couple of clubs, everyone appears to be in the same boat. I think the market will only open up properly in the last week to 10 days when players and selling clubs realize their bluff has been called and they are forced into deals they would not have accepted a few weeks prior. What I hope we are seeing is the emergence of a new financial environment. My biggest concern is that the CL revenue being as lucrative as it is will make the revenue divide between the haves and have nots even wider than it is now.

[oldtimernow]

Likewise.. Eamonn...join me in a nice little cyprus sherry and you'll be helping the Eurozone

[eamonn]

I then think that the public statement from the General saying that they would back the manager transfer wise has been a farcical one. I agree, not knowing is difficult as you cannot quantify what has gone and what we expect to still go, but to lose the players we have without actually choosing replacements bar 1, being NZogbia for Downing is harsh. Ireland is not a replacement for Jimmy, we never replaced Barry, and Ash is yet to be replaced. 4 England internationals in their prime gone, only 1 replaced and the club saying they will back the new manager. He is a sitting duck at the moment.

In fairness I think Downing and Delph - two left-footers, a winger and a midfielder, one quite proven, one with bags of potential were ''replacements'' for Barry.
Of Milner, Young and Downing you could say N'Zogbia is in for one of Ash or Downing.
Ireland obviously came as part of the Milner deal. Two very different players. And very different attitudes more to the point. But Makoun also came in during January so you could argue that Ireland and Makoun motivated more than compensate for Milner.

That leaves one of Downing or Young which the club would argue that this has been partly covered by the emergence of the likes of Albrighton and the fact that a new manager with a different way of playing means like for like replacements aren't as necessary/valid....cost-cutting of course but I wouldn't say there's no reasoning in it and ultimately it's what we're going to have to get used to due to Randy's hawkeye on the wage-bill going forward.

But then you could also argue  that Makoun (or Ireland) is a replacement for Sidwell.

And what about the replacements for NRC and Walker.

Yeah but replacing Milner and replacing Milner and Sidwell amounts to the same thing

Obviously for all his weaknesses there is now an NRC-shaped hole in the squad.

As for Walker, when he arrived Warnock had been ostracized and Luke Young was one month into a three month absence through injury. They will both start the season as our regular full-backs you'd imagine.

[oldtimernow]

Only the very rich or the stupid ones buy early

Wait until the 10 day sale comes along!

oohh   wasn't that the way a certain manager used to buy and didn't that end up with us buying a load of crap with stupid warranties....mmm

[eastie]

yes let other teams pay their wages for pre-season training and get them fit and we will buy them when the season is ready to begin and save on wages. wishful thinking sadly.

[Toronto Villa]

yes let other teams pay their wages for pre-season training and get them fit and we will buy them when the season is ready to begin and save on wages. wishful thinking sadly.

unless a player is a free agent, don't you think all players playing for another team are working out and playing in friendlies already? Why should players signed late in the window be unprepared fitness wise to play immediately.

[oldtimernow]

Don't forget the costly pre season tours

[eastie]

yes let other teams pay their wages for pre-season training and get them fit and we will buy them when the season is ready to begin and save on wages. wishful thinking sadly.

unless a player is a free agent, don't you think all players playing for another team are working out and playing in friendlies already? Why should players signed late in the window be unprepared fitness wise to play immediately.

The point im making is that signing players late in the window saves paying their wages for pre-season and for a player on £65000 a week that could save half a million in wages buying him in august rather than june.

The wishful thinking comment was meant in that i wish were signing players.

[Villa'Zawg]

Factor in the new sponsorship deal as well and the wages> turnover ratio should be a lot healthier now.

I don't want to go the Slumberland route and say Big Eck is playing a blinder on this, but after Carson and his cronies made noises about £20, no maybe £30 or maybe even £40 million available for new players, he probably knows the value of keeping schtum.

Lessons learned the hard way, and all that.

But....but....but... they did spend £40m net on transfer fees in his last two seasons and also brought in several highly paid loanees

Transfer Markt - Clicky

[Villa'Zawg]

yes let other teams pay their wages for pre-season training and get them fit and we will buy them when the season is ready to begin and save on wages. wishful thinking sadly.

unless a player is a free agent, don't you think all players playing for another team are working out and playing in friendlies already? Why should players signed late in the window be unprepared fitness wise to play immediately.

N'Zogbia wasn't, he was on holiday in NY and Dubai.

[Toronto Villa]

yes let other teams pay their wages for pre-season training and get them fit and we will buy them when the season is ready to begin and save on wages. wishful thinking sadly.

unless a player is a free agent, don't you think all players playing for another team are working out and playing in friendlies already? Why should players signed late in the window be unprepared fitness wise to play immediately.

N'Zogbia wasn't, he was on holiday in NY and Dubai.

it wouldn't have mattered then when we signed him. He had a scheduled holiday. It's not like had we signed him back in June he'd have come back earlier. He was apparently given extra time off due to his international commitments with France. There's still players on holiday now that played in Copa America.

Most players are back in pre-season training with their current clubs at around the same time, and to think signing a player late has a bearing on fitness levels isn't really true. Would it help to have them in early to meet their team mates and go on pre-season tours etc? It's not a bad thing but even that's overblown in my opinion. Darren Bent had never played with us when he joined in January and spent the rest of the season performing like he had played with us for 5 years.

[PhilGibson]

Anyone who mentions Spurs in this one gets shot.

Can I be first.....

As a rough guide we now have 14 senior professional of first team quality, and another 13 squad / youngsters who are probably on between 5-20k per week.

Heskey 65,000
Beye 40,000
L Young 40,000
Warnock 50,000
Dunne 60,000
Collins 30,000
Bent 65,000
Ireland 65,000
Gabby 45,000
Given 50,000
Cuellar 35,000
Makoun 35,000
N'Zogbia 65,000
Petrov 50,000

Total per week = £695k
Per Year = £36 million

If you add in the squad / youngsters wages probably adds another £10 million per year max.
A guess at squad bonuses etc a further £10 million. We are looking at wages of circa £56 million per year.

Our revenue in 09/10 was circa £90 million, which will have decreased last season based on performance in all competitions, to say circa £80 million.

We are as an estimate spending 70% of our turnover on wages.

This is probably already at a level which is unsustainable.

IMO.... Heskey, Beye, Ireland, Dunne, Collins, Warnock, Young, Petrov are all being paid an extremely high wage for the performances they have put in last season, and the majority of them are either close to 30 or over 30. The squad itself needs to move these players through during the next few seasons, to rebalance the ratios.

We cannot keep blaming old Martin for all the ills within the squad, the board sanctioned the contracts and wages for these players, and we are now paying the price. In comparative terms for our turnover we are spending enough on wages to be a top 6-7 club. The trouble for me is the spending over the last four - five years bar a few exceptions has not been done so wisely.

Randy appears to have decided (too fast in my opinion) to pull the plug and wait for the contracts to run down on the players who have been brought in on high wages. This is a risky strategy given the fact we were for most of last season in a relegation battle, however he holds the purse strings and decides the direction of the club.

Interesting that neither Everton or Spurs our supposed competition are yet to spend any money either. Seems only Man City, Man United and Liverpool have any money to spend.

[Toronto Villa]

If sell to buy is a truism, then under these new FFP guidelines no club outside of a select few is going to significantly add salaries without selling assets first. Liverpool have not only spent a lot, but added a lot in wages to what was already a big squad. They have a significant sponsorship deal, but have a stadium that doesn't add significant commercial value. They're not in the CL or Europa either. They've basically gone all in on this season to qualify for the CL. If they don't they're going to be hard pushed to continue this level of spending and to balance their spending against revenues. They really haven't sold many players either. I think they've put immense faith in Dalglish and it might work out, but cracking the top 4 isn't easy.

[oldtimernow]

Oh and won't I smile and have a little chuckle to myself when I see the part that the spineless lion might play in that

[Villa'Zawg]

Anyone who mentions Spurs in this one gets shot.

Can I be first.....

As a rough guide we now have 14 senior professional of first team quality, and another 13 squad / youngsters who are probably on between 5-20k per week.

Heskey 65,000
Beye 40,000
L Young 40,000
Warnock 50,000
Dunne 60,000
Collins 30,000
Bent 65,000
Ireland 65,000
Gabby 45,000
Given 50,000
Cuellar 35,000
Makoun 35,000
N'Zogbia 65,000
Petrov 50,000

Total per week = £695k
Per Year = £36 million

If you add in the squad / youngsters wages probably adds another £10 million per year max.
A guess at squad bonuses etc a further £10 million. We are looking at wages of circa £56 million per year.

Our revenue in 09/10 was circa £90 million, which will have decreased last season based on performance in all competitions, to say circa £80 million.

We are as an estimate spending 70% of our turnover on wages.

This is probably already at a level which is unsustainable.

IMO.... Heskey, Beye, Ireland, Dunne, Collins, Warnock, Young, Petrov are all being paid an extremely high wage for the performances they have put in last season, and the majority of them are either close to 30 or over 30. The squad itself needs to move these players through during the next few seasons, to rebalance the ratios.

We cannot keep blaming old Martin for all the ills within the squad, the board sanctioned the contracts and wages for these players, and we are now paying the price. In comparative terms for our turnover we are spending enough on wages to be a top 6-7 club. The trouble for me is the spending over the last four - five years bar a few exceptions has not been done so wisely.

Randy appears to have decided (too fast in my opinion) to pull the plug and wait for the contracts to run down on the players who have been brought in on high wages. This is a risky strategy given the fact we were for most of last season in a relegation battle, however he holds the purse strings and decides the direction of the club.

Interesting that neither Everton or Spurs our supposed competition are yet to spend any money either. Seems only Man City, Man United and Liverpool have any money to spend.

I wouldn't argue with your wages figures. What I would say is that the bonus £10m is a pretty arbitrary figure and only gets paid on success and subsequent earning of corresponding prize money. At this point there is also the additional £25mish profit from transfer fees.