Why we need to stand by the Club, the Chairman, the Team.

[Rudy Can't Fail]

You're entitled to your opinions, I haven't a problem with that, but you obviously have a problem with people expressing theirs though!

No, I don't at all, the point i was trying to make was that going on about "what do people expect" and "for all those constantly moaning" blah blah blah is patronising in the extreme.

Your point about "relegated before a ball is kicked" is one example, and the original poster's long ramble which seemed to be saying "if you're pessimistic, you're clearly not behind the team and manager" is an even better one.

I am massively uninspired by the managerial apppointment, I think the club is abysmally run, and I think the belief that getting one more signing in and relying on the kids is cause to think we can challenge for top four (see the General's last post on VT) is incredibly wishful thinking and more likely to end up with us as bottom four, but I fucking object to people suggesting I'm in some way "not supporting the manager" or not behind the team. I'll be there in my seat as usual next year, supporting the team, and giving the manager a chance to show I was totally wrong.

As I said, it is patronising guff - the old "better fan than you" argument dressed up in some nonsense about sitting tight, using the kids more and hoping lots of clubs go bust.

It's almost as if people have forgotten what happened last season when, due to injuries, we had to rely on the kids too much. It all went to shit. Except now there seems to be the implication that we should have an actual policy of doing precisely that.

If it is such an obvious good idea, why weren't these same people saying "hang on, no, I don't think we should be spending 40m on players this summer, I reckon we should be really prudent, sit tight and use the kids instead" when we were spending big money?

Madness.

Incidentally, where did this "divine right to top four" thing come from? I don't think I have ever seen a post which suggested someone thought we had that.

I have introduced a new "post of the month" competition, and am pleased to report that you are the very first winner. 

This is the second one of these long winded posts this week that seem designed just to get as many people as possible replying "great post!!!!!1111".

Drama Queens of the World Unite! (winky)

[Rudy Can't Fail]

It's almost as if people have forgotten what happened last season when, due to injuries, we had to rely on the kids too much. It all went to shit.

It wasn't the kids that let us down last season, it was the senior players.

[Concrete John]

It's almost as if people have forgotten what happened last season when, due to injuries, we had to rely on the kids too much. It all went to shit.

It wasn't the kids that let us down last season, it was the senior players.

That bit is debatable, but what isn't is the fact we had an unprecedented injury crisis.  When you imagine that the summer 2010 deals only meant our net loss on player numbers was one Nicky Shorey, then you can see that we had plenty numbers wise, but got hit with a crippling number being out at the same time.  So the issue wasn't the kids playing, but all playign at once and often in positions they were unfamiliar with.

This season we can realistically expect a better injury record and also have the benefit of them being a year older and a year wiser thanks to last season.

[Toronto Villa]

There's nothing wrong with being cautiously optimistic or holding a wait and see what happens attitude. At least that's where I stand. I don't think anybody should be blindly optimistic or being massively down in the dumps. I see AM as a project that will bring us stability firstly, and then steady year on year improvements. Was I impressed by the appointment - No. Have I been impressed with him so far? Well he hasn't done anything to disappoint me, and he seems to have galvanised the squad, and is on the verge of making his second very good signing.

The proof will be once the season starts. I certainly won't be shouting from any rooftops if it starts really well, but I certainly won't be jumping off them if we start less than impressively. I'll give him every chance to get the right balance. The season is a long one and a lot can change very quickly. In my opinion he deserves patience just by being Villa manager. The same that I'd offer anyone in his position. I'm sure it's not lost on him that his rope is a little shorter than most given the circumstances of his arrival.

[nigel]

There's nothing wrong with being cautiously optimistic or holding a wait and see what happens attitude. At least that's where I stand. I don't think anybody should be blindly optimistic or being massively down in the dumps. I see AM as a project that will bring us stability firstly, and then steady year on year improvements. Was I impressed by the appointment - No. Have I been impressed with him so far? Well he hasn't done anything to disappoint me, and he seems to have galvanised the squad, and is on the verge of making his second very good signing.

The proof will be once the season starts. I certainly won't be shouting from any rooftops if it starts really well, but I certainly won't be jumping off them if we start less than impressively. I'll give him every chance to get the right balance. The season is a long one and a lot can change very quickly. In my opinion he deserves patience just by being Villa manager. The same that I'd offer anyone in his position. I'm sure it's not lost on him that his rope is a little shorter than most given the circumstances of his arrival.

Well said.
I actually was impressed with the AMcL appointment for the simple reason that it took massive balls to appoint him and even bigger balls for him to accept.

[pauliewalnuts]

It's almost as if people have forgotten what happened last season when, due to injuries, we had to rely on the kids too much. It all went to shit.

It wasn't the kids that let us down last season, it was the senior players.

The kids didn't let us down, you're right there - but they struggled when we asked too much of them.

[pauliewalnuts]

Regarding "patronising guff" as you put it, it's other peoples opinions!!
I would never claim to be a better fan than you or anyone else.
If someone wants to pay their money then sit and moan all game, that's up to them, f***ing sad if you ask me, but, how can that be classed as supporting the team?
I'm a petty objective supporter, if they play badly I'll say so, I won't make excuses and if they play well I'll say so too.
However badly they play, I will never boo the team.

I didn't say you would boo the team, my point was that assuming as the original poster seems to be that being pessimistic now means you're not fully behind the team once the season starts is wide of the mark.

That's the patronising thing I was referring to.

I've no idea what they're saying on other forums about us having a divine right to top four, I don't read other forums, why would anyone when all the clued up, non brain-dead cool kids are on here? *wink*

[pauliewalnuts]

It's almost as if people have forgotten what happened last season when, due to injuries, we had to rely on the kids too much. It all went to shit.

It wasn't the kids that let us down last season, it was the senior players.

That bit is debatable, but what isn't is the fact we had an unprecedented injury crisis.  When you imagine that the summer 2010 deals only meant our net loss on player numbers was one Nicky Shorey, then you can see that we had plenty numbers wise, but got hit with a crippling number being out at the same time.  So the issue wasn't the kids playing, but all playign at once and often in positions they were unfamiliar with.

Quite true - we started against Man United with Bannan and Hogg in the middle. They did pretty well in that game, but it's not really an ideal situation to have to rely on kids to that degree.

All clubs should be bringing their youth players on, but there's a pretty thin line between giving them the chance to flourish and relying on them too heavily.

It's a bit worrying that we're a number of bodies light on last year. I know many of the 10 released were unknowns, but some of them, such as NRC and Carew weren't. We've also sold two of our best players and seem to be replacing them with one player.

Meanwhile over on VT the general is talking about bringing in CNZ, using youth more and targetting the top four. I think that'd be both ridiculously over optimistic and dangerous.

[Californian Villain]

Meanwhile over on VT the general is talking about bringing in CNZ, using youth more and targetting the top four. I think that'd be both ridiculously over optimistic and dangerous.

It was a typo: he meant "targeting the bottom four"

[nigel]

Regarding "patronising guff" as you put it, it's other peoples opinions!!
I would never claim to be a better fan than you or anyone else.
If someone wants to pay their money then sit and moan all game, that's up to them, f***ing sad if you ask me, but, how can that be classed as supporting the team?
I'm a petty objective supporter, if they play badly I'll say so, I won't make excuses and if they play well I'll say so too.
However badly they play, I will never boo the team.

I didn't say you would boo the team, my point was that assuming as the original poster seems to be that being pessimistic now means you're not fully behind the team once the season starts is wide of the mark.

That's the patronising thing I was referring to.

I've no idea what they're saying on other forums about us having a divine right to top four, I don't read other forums, why would anyone when all the clued up, non brain-dead cool kids are on here? *wink*

It was another poster who said that "They pay their money, so are entitled to Boo the team"
Sorry for the misunderstanding on that.
I just can't get my head around that sort of thing.
I am an optimistic supporter, but my head is not buried in the sand. Realisticly I can see us finishing in the 8th, 9th, 10th region, looking to kick on the season after.
Have to say that this is a better quality of forum though 

[john e]

i'm optimistic about a lot of the players we have especially the younger ones who i'm hoping we'l see plenty of in the coming season. i'd certainly rather see some young player from the academy given a shot than some average joe, who's just looking for the best pay cheque

the big problem is that we have appointed a very defensive manager who plays boring football, thats not a myth its a fact, i'm not making it up,its what weve seen of him over the last few years,
theres no getting away from it we can put the old blinkers on if it makes us feel better, or just hope and pray he will 'change' but the bottom line is that he will probably revert to type when things get tough.

lets hope he proves us wrong, and we see some attractive football played, but history suggests it aint gona happen.

yes we will all get behind him,
 i got behind MON at the beggining, and i hated his style of football, but at least it was more possitive than AM's

so we can get behind and support the team and manager, but if you appoint the most negative manager in the prem, theres a good chance thats the sort of football we are going to get, you know the saying 'if it looks like fish and smells like fish, it probably is fish'

[Toronto Villa]

i'm optimistic about a lot of the players we have especially the younger ones who i'm hoping we'l see plenty of in the coming season. i'd certainly rather see some young player from the academy given a shot than some average joe, who's just looking for the best pay cheque

the big problem is that we have appointed a very defensive manager who plays boring football, thats not a myth its a fact, i'm not making it up,its what weve seen of him over the last few years,
theres no getting away from it we can put the old blinkers on if it makes us feel better, or just hope and pray he will 'change' but the bottom line is that he will probably revert to type when things get tough.

lets hope he proves us wrong, and we see some attractive football played, but history suggests it aint gona happen.

yes we will all get behind him,
 i got behind MON at the beggining, and i hated his style of football, but at least it was more possitive than AM's

so we can get behind and support the team and manager, but if you appoint the most negative manager in the prem, theres a good chance thats the sort of football we are going to get, you know the saying 'if it looks like fish and smells like fish, it probably is fish'

I understand the recent reputation, but it's also what he had to deal with at the shit that influenced the way he played. He didn't always have his teams play that way in Scotland, and he certainly didn't tell his team to defend first in the game vs Walsall. Yes, yes, I know it's Walsall, but if he was going to employ his defence only strategy we'd have seen some signs of it there. In fact, having watched the entire game, we attacked almost constantly. While that strategy won't be the same in the PL, it didn't indicate to me that he has started to instill a radical defensive mindset at the club.

We'll learn more over the next couple of friendlies as to how he's setting us up to play. It will be interesting if we make it the Chelsea game if he really gives it a go. I just happen to think that given the better weapons, especially Ireland, Bent, Gabby, N'Zogbia, Albrighton he'll want to use their attacking skills as much as possible.

[john e]

i'm optimistic about a lot of the players we have especially the younger ones who i'm hoping we'l see plenty of in the coming season. i'd certainly rather see some young player from the academy given a shot than some average joe, who's just looking for the best pay cheque

the big problem is that we have appointed a very defensive manager who plays boring football, thats not a myth its a fact, i'm not making it up,its what weve seen of him over the last few years,
theres no getting away from it we can put the old blinkers on if it makes us feel better, or just hope and pray he will 'change' but the bottom line is that he will probably revert to type when things get tough.

lets hope he proves us wrong, and we see some attractive football played, but history suggests it aint gona happen.

yes we will all get behind him,
 i got behind MON at the beggining, and i hated his style of football, but at least it was more possitive than AM's

so we can get behind and support the team and manager, but if you appoint the most negative manager in the prem, theres a good chance thats the sort of football we are going to get, you know the saying 'if it looks like fish and smells like fish, it probably is fish'

I understand the recent reputation, but it's also what he had to deal with at the shit that influenced the way he played. He didn't always have his teams play that way in Scotland, and he certainly didn't tell his team to defend first in the game vs Walsall. Yes, yes, I know it's Walsall, but if he was going to employ his defence only strategy we'd have seen some signs of it there. In fact, having watched the entire game, we attacked almost constantly. While that strategy won't be the same in the PL, it didn't indicate to me that he has started to instill a radical defensive mindset at the club.

We'll learn more over the next couple of friendlies as to how he's setting us up to play. It will be interesting if we make it the Chelsea game if he really gives it a go. I just happen to think that given the better weapons, especially Ireland, Bent, Gabby, N'Zogbia, Albrighton he'll want to use their attacking skills as much as possible.

thats what i mean, we  can all build a case, but if that style of football is the mans DNA it wont change
i saw Big Sams Blackburn have some exceptional talented footballers, ones who had entertained right round the world, but when you watched Blackburn play, it was in the style of big Sam, ie absolute shite, didnt matter what sort of players he had, they still wernt worth watching appart from a couple of games a season,

its not up to us to say 'come on lets get up and support the lads ' thats pretty much a given, its up to AM to give us something to shout about, yes there is a lot of doubt about AM, but he's the only one that can do something about it.

[Chris Smith]

I'm neither optimistic nor pessimistic about this season, I'm intrigued.

Intrigued to see how McLeish performs, how the disaffected players from last season rehabilitate, which of the youngsters makes the step up, what Makoun and N'Zogbia have to offer, what direction the board go in and how the fans react to it all.

[john e]

I'm neither optimistic nor pessimistic about this season, I'm intrigued.

Intrigued to see how McLeish performs, how the disaffected players from last season rehabilitate, which of the youngsters makes the step up, what Makoun and N'Zogbia have to offer, what direction the board go in and how the fans react to it all.

yes , i agree, its a good word intrigued.
i dont think since AM has been with us he has done anything wrong at all, quite the opposite in fact, he has come over extremley well and obviously wants to be here,

but we all support Villa for one thing, football, and thats where he has a bit of convincing to do, well with me anyroad, but certainly a good start so far