We're a selling club

[Concrete John]

Maybe not the right day for this, as I'm probably pissing in the wind, but here goes:-

We're not a selling club as we do not and did not WANT these players to go.  Our issue isn't around the need for the cash, but our inability to convince anyone we're a good bet to get to the CL positions.  The first few years under MON I think most would agree we were moving in that direction, then along comes whispering Stevie and Barry wants to move to Liverpool, who were then a CL club.  Although we fought that off, the bridges were burned and we took what we could get 12-months later from Man City.  Yet we carried on and had a better season, so no great harm done.  Then Man City come calling again for Milner and the money they were offering, both us and the player, was ridiculous.  So we did what everyone has done so far - we took the oil money!  I think it's at this point that we had a change of perception, no least of which because of MON walking out.  12 months after that we've had a poor season and the other CL level (or at least think they are) players also want out as they do not expect us to be challenging again.  And why aren't we challenging?  Because our best players keep leaving.

Almost a chicken and egg scenario.   

So how do we fix it?  Spurs had a similar scanrio with Berbatov and Carrick, and now with Modric.  Everton with Rooney and the Klingon.  Liverpool with Torres once they dropped out of the CL.  So we're not unique and no more a selling club than any of those.  Our issue is that these players are quite good and will always attract interest from those in a position to lever them away by the promise of CL football or at least a better chance than we have.

I guess it's a matter of taking the money, re-investing it and trying again.  What we have to do though is when we get a new squad together we need to achieve something within 2 years that will stave off the vultures.  Say we buy Dann, Foster and N'Zogbia and get ourselves in that top 6 frame again.  If by the end of the 2012/2013 season we aren't there or VERY close, the whole process will start again. 

[Rigadon]

Well said John. 

[Brend'Watkins]

If we don't invest wisely then we will go backwards.

We're already going backwards.

Has the season kicked off already?

[hilts_coolerking]

So how do we fix it?  Spurs had a similar scanrio with Berbatov and Carrick, and now with Modric.  Everton with Rooney and the Klingon.  Liverpool with Torres once they dropped out of the CL.  So we're not unique and no more a selling club than any of those.  Our issue is that these players are quite good and will always attract interest from those in a position to lever them away by the promise of CL football or at least a better chance than we have.

You're right John.  You're pissing in the wind.  Of the examples you give Berbatov was sold in 2008, Carrick in 2006 and Rooney in 2004.  Not one of those clubs you mention has seen an exodus of its top players to the extent that we have in the last three seasons.

[hilts_coolerking]

Has the season kicked off already?

Did you not see any of last season?

[Chris Smith]

If we don't invest wisely then we will go backwards.

We're already going backwards.

We can judge it at the end of the transfer window.

There's a food chain and all clubs are are at the mercy of having players picked off by richer/bigger clubs.

Bren is right in that the key is now whether we re-invest the moeny and how how well we do it.

[Iago]

Maybe not the right day for this, as I'm probably pissing in the wind, but here goes:-

We're not a selling club as we do not and did not WANT these players to go.  Our issue isn't around the need for the cash, but our inability to convince anyone we're a good bet to get to the CL positions.  The first few years under MON I think most would agree we were moving in that direction, then along comes whispering Stevie and Barry wants to move to Liverpool, who were then a CL club.  Although we fought that off, the bridges were burned and we took what we could get 12-months later from Man City.  Yet we carried on and had a better season, so no great harm done.  Then Man City come calling again for Milner and the money they were offering, both us and the player, was ridiculous.  So we did what everyone has done so far - we took the oil money!  I think it's at this point that we had a change of perception, no least of which because of MON walking out.  12 months after that we've had a poor season and the other CL level (or at least think they are) players also want out as they do not expect us to be challenging again.  And why aren't we challenging?  Because our best players keep leaving.

Almost a chicken and egg scenario.   

So how do we fix it?  Spurs had a similar scanrio with Berbatov and Carrick, and now with Modric.  Everton with Rooney and the Klingon.  Liverpool with Torres once they dropped out of the CL.  So we're not unique and no more a selling club than any of those.  Our issue is that these players are quite good and will always attract interest from those in a position to lever them away by the promise of CL football or at least a better chance than we have.

I guess it's a matter of taking the money, re-investing it and trying again.  What we have to do though is when we get a new squad together we need to achieve something within 2 years that will stave off the vultures.  Say we buy Dann, Foster and N'Zogbia and get ourselves in that top 6 frame again.  If by the end of the 2012/2013 season we aren't there or VERY close, the whole process will start again.

I concur with your view. We can rebuild and we WILL recover from the departures.

[MarkM]

The real concern is this...

We are now a mid table also ran club that WILL sell its best players if another club comes sniffing.

We will not be able to challenge for the top six so European football is out [unless we win a cup, which is not likely]

Man U
Arsenal
Chelsea
Man City

Liverpool
Spurs
Everton, Villa, Blackburn

Thats our level, sad but true.

The board really need to decide how they want the club to move forward in the future, are we just going to be happy to survive and have an odd cup run? or do they want to challenge for the top six [top 4 is a non starter]?

The current sell off of the cream and leave the rest [and the manager who specialises in 'budget management' says to me that they have already given up on this upcomming season and are positioning Villa as a mid table survivor

Shame

[Concrete John]

So how do we fix it?  Spurs had a similar scanrio with Berbatov and Carrick, and now with Modric.  Everton with Rooney and the Klingon.  Liverpool with Torres once they dropped out of the CL.  So we're not unique and no more a selling club than any of those.  Our issue is that these players are quite good and will always attract interest from those in a position to lever them away by the promise of CL football or at least a better chance than we have.

You're right John.  You're pissing in the wind.  Of the examples you give Berbatov was sold in 2008, Carrick in 2006 and Rooney in 2004.  Not one of those clubs you mention has seen an exodus of its top players to the extent that we have in the last three seasons.

Maybe that's beacuse we had more players the top clubs wanted than those clubs at the time?

[Brend'Watkins]

Has the season kicked off already?

Did you not see any of last season?

Yes, every game at home and quite a few away where I murmered to myself nasty things about MON walking out on us when he did.

Wait until the end of the window and see what the squad looks like before stating going backwards as the conclusion to the coming season.

[Rigadon]

The real concern is this...

We are now a mid table also ran club that WILL sell its best players if another club comes sniffing.

We will not be able to challenge for the top six so European football is out [unless we win a cup, which is not likely]

Man U
Arsenal
Chelsea
Man City

Liverpool
Spurs
Everton, Villa, Blackburn

Thats our level, sad but true.

The board really need to decide how they want the club to move forward in the future, are we just going to be happy to survive and have an odd cup run? or do they want to challenge for the top six [top 4 is a non starter]?

The current sell off of the cream and leave the rest [and the manager who specialises in 'budget management' says to me that they have already given up on this upcomming season and are positioning Villa as a mid table survivor

Shame

I think you're placing us about right in terms of current 'on paper' squads.  Might change though, we'll see.

I think, more than anything else, the club should be honest about our ambitions.  If it's mid-table until somebody willing to plough in more dough, so be it. 

[hilts_coolerking]

Yes, every game at home and quite a few away where I murmered to myself nasty things about MON walking out on us when he did.

Wait until the end of the window and see what the squad looks like before stating going backwards as the conclusion to the coming season.

Who said anything about "the conclusion to the coming season"?  It's an inescapable fact that in the last 12 months the club has gone backwards.  The forthcoming season may reverse that trend, it may not.

[NeilH]

The club genuinely tried to crack the top 4 and we came close, but following the failed attempt it’s been belt tightening ever since. I think we have to accept these austerity measures and realise that we gave it a go, but that MON spunked the chance away getting in shitty players on ridiculous wages.
Until every one of the garbage that MON bought is moved on, then we cannot move forward and we’ll have to accept our place nestled between Everton, Blackburn Fulham et al....... Not exactly a recipe for flogging season tickets though is it?

[Matthius]

Has the season kicked off already?

Did you not see any of last season?

Yes, every game at home and quite a few away where I murmered to myself nasty things about MON walking out on us when he did.

Wait until the end of the window and see what the squad looks like before stating going backwards as the conclusion to the coming season.

I would get this on a banner or a poster and stick it everywhere in the birmingham area as this is the truth. No body knows what is going on at the club, It happened with buying bent, It happend with appointing AM, It'll happen with players this summer

[Lee]

I think what concerns me most isn't that we are a selling club, by that we have become such a dreadfully run club in the space of a year.

We just seem to flounder around cluelessly.

Exactly ..

If we had someone in the managerial chair in the mould of say BFR or indeed MON, someone with a bit of charisma and football nouse, then I wouldn't be bothered that much as its a good price for an above average player.

However, we have McGinge and with his previous record, this does not bode well and sends out completely the wrong signals for prospective transfer targets and indeed the football world as a whole.

Dear oh dear..