Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: russon on July 14, 2011, 06:28:11 AM
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I think I'm right in saying that each of our Players Of The Season for the last 3 years have promptly buggered off within weeks (Barry, Milner and Downing). Crewe and Wigan might feel comfortable being a feeder club but this is Aston Villa and it makes me boke having us used as a stepping stone to bigger things. We're a selling club and no mistake, unless the season's going pear shaped and we splash out zillions for someone to rescue it (Bent), we don't seem interested in persuading proper talent to come to the club yet happily wave ta ta to our best ones. All we need to do now is flog Bent off, then we'll have an entire squad of B listers, C listers, fruitcakes, fatties and froth.
Disgusted of Aldridge.
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I have got zero enthusiasm at the moment and zero expectations. I wouldnt say we've not been a selling club in the past but in those days it was a lot easier to replace the players that were leaving (BFR virtually built an entire new side from the sale of David Platt), nowadays you have to spend silly money just to buy someone mediocre. There also wasnt that bastard Champions League that everyone wants to be in, and there wasnt quite such an uncompetitive league as there is now with the 3-4 clubs that are there now gobbling up all the money, players and glory-hunting supporters. In the old days we would finish second, have a relegation battle the next season, then a decent couple of seasons then a shit one. Exhilarating stuff but now its not so easy to have a shit season and bounce back as high the following year because the strong are getting stronger all the time and the vast majority of the rest of the league are getting weaker or drifting along and unfortunately we are in that category.
On the bright hand side we're not alone in this. Spurs will sell Modric, Bale etc sooner or later the more money City or Chelsea want to chuck at them or the more seasons they go without qualifying in the Champions League. Everton have no cash and even Arsenal seem to be drifting back down to our level having been effectively replaced by Man City. Yes we can try and be best of the rest but thats it as far as i can see.
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Who isn't a selling club? I believe there is no point keeping anyone here who does not want to be here.
I'm pissed off about Stu leaving and not so much as that we let him go but he didn't want to stay. You would really think he owed us a bit of loyalty. One good season and he's gone? Nob.
I don't believe our board will want a season like last season, they don't want a relegation battle so I strongly believe they have a lot of faith in AM and will let him have funds. We just have to wait and see who comes in before blowing a gasket speculating before we have even kicked a ball.
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What does "Boke" mean?
If you're so sure it's a fact then you have to simply accept it. You cannot change it so you may as well take pleasure in seeing us develop young players (and yes see them sold), support another team or give up following football all together. Seriously, what alternatives are there? Continually moaning about this "fact" won't change anything.
Apologies for being so self righteous but I'm bored of continually reading that we're doomed, a selling club etc etc yet these posters rarely offers viable alternative solutions. Nothing personal Russon.
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We're a "Players tapped, Board mugged" club more like.
Glass is half empty for me now.
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Every clubs a selling club. Man U with Ronaldho etc etc.
We are overall a net spender. Actually I will rephrase that, Randy Lerner overall is a net spender.
Downing going is just part of the merry go round, replacements will come in.
In effect, give or take a few quid, we have swapped Downing for Bent....that sounds good to me.
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I can just about accept that at some point we have to lose our best players. We’re certainly not a big hitter and its not the first or last time it has happened. However we’ve now sold our best players year upon year. In fact in the last month we’ve sold of our two best players and brought in a deeply unpopular manager so I have to ask myself where the club is going because quite frankly we aren’t going forwards right now.
A couple of years ago there was a great sense of optimism around the club. We were heading places and had the basis of a fantastic squad. We were the talk of the papers and there was a buzz at Villa Park. What is the atmosphere going to be like this season when our fans arrive for the first game knowing that we’re treading water again, happy to compete with the likes of Fulham, Bolton and Everton for the coveted 7th- 8th place?
In the last month the club has ripped away any lingering hope that we are in it to compete and if you take away the hopes and ambitions of football fans what do they have left?
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Maybe we should all vote for Habib Beye in the POTY poll next April, as it's the only way we'll get shot of him.
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Get over yourself. Every club is a selling club at some stage, thats the way of the world. Man Citeh look set to lose Tevez so does that not make them a selling club?
I'm getting fed of hearing people moan that we are a selling club.
After MON spunked away millions our strategy has had to change. If the top 5 keep raiding us for our best players each season then as long as we get good money for that player so be it. Until we start winning things and give the players reason to stay then we best get used to it. Footballers will always go to whoever will pay them more money. Loyalty doesn't come into it.
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Every club is a selling club and every player has a price, unhappy want away players can have a negative effect on the rest of the squad. Man U sold Ronoldo and Tevez. I just wish we could get rid of the deadwood so easily. The problem we now have is that everyone knows we have cash in the bank and need players to replace the leavers so the price goes up. The young players may think he's gone and he's gone, there is more chance of me playing.
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We've always been a selling club.
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If the top 5 keep raiding us for our best players each season then as long as we get good money for that player so be it. Until we start winning things and give the players reason to stay then we best get used to it.
How do you expect us to win things if we constantly sell our best players? How do you expect us to get back into the UEFA cup if we keep selling our best players?
Of course every player has a price and every club loses their best players. However, they don't lose them year upon year upon year.
What really makes this situation worse is that we are selling our best players in order to balance the books because we can't sell the shit that MON bought.
We end up weakened by the loss of our best players and meanwhile have to make a silk purse from the sow's ears we've got left.
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Who isnt? Every player has their price and putting it in perspective (Barry £12m, Milner £18+SI, Young £16m, Downing £20m) we have got good deals for these players.
I accepted that things would turn like this after the 09/10 season when we just missed out on 4th again.
How did you seriously expect us to compete when in comparion before the 09/10 season we signed: Downing - crocked, Delph, Beye, Warnock, Collins & Dunne. When in comparison Man.C signed: Barry, Santa Cruz, Tevez, Adebayor, K.Toure & Lescott.
Unless something seriously changes with the financial fair play in future, the rich will get richer and clubs like us, everton, sunderland etc will be battling for the also-rans spots. Sad, but true.
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We can't compete with the top clubs on a financial level (stupid high wages) so will have to look at developing younger players (ie Ashley Young) and eventually they move on.
Your balancing the books comment is right and until we get rid of the mediocre players MON purchased on long contracts/£40,000+ per week this will hold us back. Once those players have gone I hope we get some fresh homegrown or purchased youngsters in and build a team.
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Have to agree with everything you say Neil.Usually around this time of year i am optimistic and full of dreams for the coming season and can't wait for the season to kick off. However, for the first time that i can recall , i am not looking forward to this coming season at all.Teams that sell their best players usually end up struggling and that's all i can see for us ,a season of struggle. We have our first match in less than a fortnight and we have not signed a single player yet. It reminds me of O Neils first season when around about November time we were so short of players we had to sign the likes of non contract players like A'Gathe and Sutton and play kids like Osbourne. Unless i am mistaken we were in serious trouble of relegation at one stage up untill around Easter time when we won at Blackburn. Looks like the club are making the same mistake again.
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We are a stepping stone club and that's what hurts the most.
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There's not many clubs that aren't stepping stone blubs now. Real Madrid and Barca are the big boys.
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I am concerned that we have thrown the towel in , raised the White flag ,
The signal sent by selling our best players is indicative of a club who is happy with mediocrity but hopes it gets some breaks along the way to appease the fans.
Randy is a great owner in many many ways but we aren't likely yk be winning anything in the foreseeable future sadly.
ST sales must be taking a hit .
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It just goes to show that when our players have a good season other clubs want them I wouldn't say we are a selling club it's just that other clubs recognise how we turned them into better players but it is annoying losing your best players every season.
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There's not many clubs that aren't stepping stone blubs now. Real Madrid and Barca are the big boys.
Exactly. What is important is that we reinvest the money in good young players. Like Spurs have done in recent years.
Blaming the Board for Downing's lack of loyalty is very harsh, especially when the slag puts a transfer request in. Here's hoping Delph takes him out in a very robust challenge in December.
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Yes to an extent every club is a selling club, but the likes of Man U, Man C, Spurs etc will follow up a sale (or even pre-empt it) with a big signing and adequate replacement.
We rarely do that. My only crumb of comfort is rather than our usual posturing that players aren't for sale until we cave in with too little time to replace them properly, they are leaving early this season.
However, I am undecided whether this is a deliberate tactic to give us more time to sign players, or a sign of desperation from the board to recoup money as soon as we can.....
If AM isn't at least given the Downing and Young money to spend i.e. nil net spend, then we are certainly a selling club and frankly deserve all the stick we have been getting over the last 12 months, and will continue to get this season.
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I think we've become a very average, faceless club.
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But for £20mil for Downing, £12mil for Barry (with one year left on his deal), £25mil+ for Milner and £17mil for Ashley Young (with one year left on his deal), makes all business sense to sell. I'm happy for us to sell. All those were good deals for us at the time.
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I think we need to wait for the end of the summer and see who we bring in before we can get the big picture. Not holding my breath though.
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I think what concerns me most isn't that we are a selling club, by that we have become such a dreadfully run club in the space of a year.
We just seem to flounder around cluelessly.
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But for £20mil for Downing, £12mil for Barry (with one year left on his deal), £25mil+ for Milner and £17mil for Ashley Young (with one year left on his deal
I notice a pattern here! But I cannot figure out why? :-\ ???
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We have this discussion every year and it always ends the same way - me hammered on Jack Daniels crying into my toilet.
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It will really hit home the next time England play. Will see a forward/midfield line up of Bent, young, Downing, and Milner, and possibly Barry, and think of what might have been.
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But for £20mil for Downing, £12mil for Barry (with one year left on his deal), £25mil+ for Milner and £17mil for Ashley Young (with one year left on his deal), makes all business sense to sell. I'm happy for us to sell. All those were good deals for us at the time.
I don't go to Villa Park to watch pound notes fluttering across the park or the club's accountant filling in his paying in book. I want to watch football not count money. We flog the players you've named and replace them with players who are half as good, what's the sense in that? I know we aren't going to win the league but let's at least show some ambition, even if it's just to be the top club in the Midlands which we only managed by a solitary point last time.
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Yes but England are shit
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I think what concerns me most isn't that we are a selling club, by that we have become such a dreadfully run club in the space of a year.
We just seem to flounder around cluelessly.
We are a dreadfully run club - the state of our club finances for a start and 4 managers in the last 12 months tells its own story. Shocking appointment with McLeish, I know we are going on about it too much but it still beggars belief how we paid Bham 3m-4m for Peter Grant, him and some doctor.
With Barry, the end was a bit nasty but I actually wished him the best as he had given the club 10 years plus. Was the right time to sell him too as I felt his best days were behind him which has turned out correct. Milner had a very good 4 or 5 months for us and we simply couldnt turn down that offer, again wouldnt mind seeing him doing well. Ashley Young in particular I hope to see well, our best attacking player since Yorke and went to a top club. Downing I hope is a true and utter failure. I really hope that prick who the club paid wages to when he was injured and crap for 12 months, signed for stupid money when injured and after a crap season with Boro etc. He was decent for us no more, gets back in England squad and hands in a transfer request. Really hope he is a disaster for them. Think Liverpool have made some really crap signings considering the money available, MON esque. Hope they fail and fail badly.
Still though a midfield of:
Reo Coker,
Milner, Barry,
Young,-------Downing
could have been really good imo. these things happen. Lets try and move on.
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I think I'm right in saying that each of our Players Of The Season for the last 3 years have promptly buggered off within weeks (Barry, Milner and Downing). Crewe and Wigan might feel comfortable being a feeder club but this is Aston Villa and it makes me boke having us used as a stepping stone to bigger things. We're a selling club and no mistake, unless the season's going pear shaped and we splash out zillions for someone to rescue it (Bent), we don't seem interested in persuading proper talent to come to the club yet happily wave ta ta to our best ones. All we need to do now is flog Bent off, then we'll have an entire squad of B listers, C listers, fruitcakes, fatties and froth.
Disgusted of Aldridge.
Well said Alex.
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I think I'm right in saying that each of our Players Of The Season for the last 3 years have promptly buggered off within weeks (Barry, Milner and Downing). Crewe and Wigan might feel comfortable being a feeder club but this is Aston Villa and it makes me boke having us used as a stepping stone to bigger things. We're a selling club and no mistake, unless the season's going pear shaped and we splash out zillions for someone to rescue it (Bent), we don't seem interested in persuading proper talent to come to the club yet happily wave ta ta to our best ones. All we need to do now is flog Bent off, then we'll have an entire squad of B listers, C listers, fruitcakes, fatties and froth.
Disgusted of Aldridge.
Well said Alex.
Agree.
Should be put on the moribund General's thread.
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I think we've become a very average, faceless club.
Since I have supported this club that is all we have been.
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The last 4 POTY have all been either getting into the England team on a regular basis (Barry) or starting to make their mark (the other 3). I can't help but think Bent will be next if he does well and gets back into the lineup.
Those shared rooms on England away trips must be the prime place for getting your ear bent about how much money you can make at a Sky 4 club. Perhaps a few decent foreigners would help with a bit of stability. There wasn't constant talk of Mellberg wanting to leave while he was dominating the back line and being a Sweden regular (the last season excepted). England seems to be bad for clubs, but good for players. Perhaps we should all be a bit more like Fergie a few years ago and refuse to release our players for England duties?
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If we cant sell Heskey this season we should make him POTY so we can mug somebody off next season.
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If we cant sell Heskey this season we should make him POTY so we can mug somebody off next season.
Sell Heskey, sh1t, i'm all for making money but ffs have a conciousness, we should wave him of to where ever, anyway another B'ham second we are beginning to look more like the noses than the noses
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But for £20mil for Downing, £12mil for Barry (with one year left on his deal), £25mil+ for Milner and £17mil for Ashley Young (with one year left on his deal), makes all business sense to sell. I'm happy for us to sell. All those were good deals for us at the time.
Good business sense, crap for the football team we put out.
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I struggle to see any sense in the selling of players like Barry, like Ash Young, Downing, James Milner, letting go NRC and of loading Brad Friedal and that's good business, what we have sold there is the nucleus of a side that can potentially challenge the top 4, and all that money we have cashed in on will vanish in a heartbeat if we get relegated.
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Randy was quoted last August that we are a sell to buy club so that is how it is!
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Despite the 'all clubs are selling clubs' comment - I think we are becoming more so than others. However, I could put up with all that if other players were coming into the club. What's going on ? Even our attempts to make the essential signing of a decent goalkeeper seem to be dragging on. I get the impression that all is not well behind the scenes.
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I get the impression that all is not well behind the scenes.
Happily we dodged a bullet by rejecting Benitez, as he wanted "total control". It's much more comforting having Faulkner in "total control"; he doesn't say "cloob".
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Despite the 'all clubs are selling clubs' comment - I think we are becoming more so than others. However, I could put up with all that if other players were coming into the club. What's going on ? Even our attempts to make the essential signing of a decent goalkeeper seem to be dragging on. I get the impression that all is not well behind the scenes.
My thoughts exactly, it doesn't feel like a club that has any kind of plan, almost a clear out sale and then go from there, said before, The AM appointment was always very weird IMO, said at the time if you wanted someone that was very thick skinned and could take the flak, he's your man, I'm just wondering if what your actually seeing is a downsizing of the club in terms of its squad and ambitions, wage bill and status.
Next days will be very important, after this weekend we are just a few weeks away from kick of, yes lets press that panic button ffs otherwise we'll have a repeat of last season, we'll blunder into the start.
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If the top 5 keep raiding us for our best players each season then as long as we get good money for that player so be it. Until we start winning things and give the players reason to stay then we best get used to it.
How do you expect us to win things if we constantly sell our best players? How do you expect us to get back into the UEFA cup if we keep selling our best players?
Of course every player has a price and every club loses their best players. However, they don't lose them year upon year upon year.
What really makes this situation worse is that we are selling our best players in order to balance the books because we can't sell the shit that MON bought.
We end up weakened by the loss of our best players and meanwhile have to make a silk purse from the sow's ears we've got left.
If we get in N'zogbia and Parker I think we will be stronger than last year. £20M for that spineless weasel is outstanding business.
If we don't invest wisely then we will go backwards.
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If we don't invest wisely then we will go backwards.
We're already going backwards.
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Maybe not the right day for this, as I'm probably pissing in the wind, but here goes:-
We're not a selling club as we do not and did not WANT these players to go. Our issue isn't around the need for the cash, but our inability to convince anyone we're a good bet to get to the CL positions. The first few years under MON I think most would agree we were moving in that direction, then along comes whispering Stevie and Barry wants to move to Liverpool, who were then a CL club. Although we fought that off, the bridges were burned and we took what we could get 12-months later from Man City. Yet we carried on and had a better season, so no great harm done. Then Man City come calling again for Milner and the money they were offering, both us and the player, was ridiculous. So we did what everyone has done so far - we took the oil money! I think it's at this point that we had a change of perception, no least of which because of MON walking out. 12 months after that we've had a poor season and the other CL level (or at least think they are) players also want out as they do not expect us to be challenging again. And why aren't we challenging? Because our best players keep leaving.
Almost a chicken and egg scenario.
So how do we fix it? Spurs had a similar scanrio with Berbatov and Carrick, and now with Modric. Everton with Rooney and the Klingon. Liverpool with Torres once they dropped out of the CL. So we're not unique and no more a selling club than any of those. Our issue is that these players are quite good and will always attract interest from those in a position to lever them away by the promise of CL football or at least a better chance than we have.
I guess it's a matter of taking the money, re-investing it and trying again. What we have to do though is when we get a new squad together we need to achieve something within 2 years that will stave off the vultures. Say we buy Dann, Foster and N'Zogbia and get ourselves in that top 6 frame again. If by the end of the 2012/2013 season we aren't there or VERY close, the whole process will start again.
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Well said John.
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If we don't invest wisely then we will go backwards.
We're already going backwards.
Has the season kicked off already?
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So how do we fix it? Spurs had a similar scanrio with Berbatov and Carrick, and now with Modric. Everton with Rooney and the Klingon. Liverpool with Torres once they dropped out of the CL. So we're not unique and no more a selling club than any of those. Our issue is that these players are quite good and will always attract interest from those in a position to lever them away by the promise of CL football or at least a better chance than we have.
You're right John. You're pissing in the wind. Of the examples you give Berbatov was sold in 2008, Carrick in 2006 and Rooney in 2004. Not one of those clubs you mention has seen an exodus of its top players to the extent that we have in the last three seasons.
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Has the season kicked off already?
Did you not see any of last season?
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If we don't invest wisely then we will go backwards.
We're already going backwards.
We can judge it at the end of the transfer window.
There's a food chain and all clubs are are at the mercy of having players picked off by richer/bigger clubs.
Bren is right in that the key is now whether we re-invest the moeny and how how well we do it.
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Maybe not the right day for this, as I'm probably pissing in the wind, but here goes:-
We're not a selling club as we do not and did not WANT these players to go. Our issue isn't around the need for the cash, but our inability to convince anyone we're a good bet to get to the CL positions. The first few years under MON I think most would agree we were moving in that direction, then along comes whispering Stevie and Barry wants to move to Liverpool, who were then a CL club. Although we fought that off, the bridges were burned and we took what we could get 12-months later from Man City. Yet we carried on and had a better season, so no great harm done. Then Man City come calling again for Milner and the money they were offering, both us and the player, was ridiculous. So we did what everyone has done so far - we took the oil money! I think it's at this point that we had a change of perception, no least of which because of MON walking out. 12 months after that we've had a poor season and the other CL level (or at least think they are) players also want out as they do not expect us to be challenging again. And why aren't we challenging? Because our best players keep leaving.
Almost a chicken and egg scenario.
So how do we fix it? Spurs had a similar scanrio with Berbatov and Carrick, and now with Modric. Everton with Rooney and the Klingon. Liverpool with Torres once they dropped out of the CL. So we're not unique and no more a selling club than any of those. Our issue is that these players are quite good and will always attract interest from those in a position to lever them away by the promise of CL football or at least a better chance than we have.
I guess it's a matter of taking the money, re-investing it and trying again. What we have to do though is when we get a new squad together we need to achieve something within 2 years that will stave off the vultures. Say we buy Dann, Foster and N'Zogbia and get ourselves in that top 6 frame again. If by the end of the 2012/2013 season we aren't there or VERY close, the whole process will start again.
I concur with your view. We can rebuild and we WILL recover from the departures.
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The real concern is this...
We are now a mid table also ran club that WILL sell its best players if another club comes sniffing.
We will not be able to challenge for the top six so European football is out [unless we win a cup, which is not likely]
Man U
Arsenal
Chelsea
Man City
Liverpool
Spurs
Everton, Villa, Blackburn
Thats our level, sad but true.
The board really need to decide how they want the club to move forward in the future, are we just going to be happy to survive and have an odd cup run? or do they want to challenge for the top six [top 4 is a non starter]?
The current sell off of the cream and leave the rest [and the manager who specialises in 'budget management' says to me that they have already given up on this upcomming season and are positioning Villa as a mid table survivor
Shame
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So how do we fix it? Spurs had a similar scanrio with Berbatov and Carrick, and now with Modric. Everton with Rooney and the Klingon. Liverpool with Torres once they dropped out of the CL. So we're not unique and no more a selling club than any of those. Our issue is that these players are quite good and will always attract interest from those in a position to lever them away by the promise of CL football or at least a better chance than we have.
You're right John. You're pissing in the wind. Of the examples you give Berbatov was sold in 2008, Carrick in 2006 and Rooney in 2004. Not one of those clubs you mention has seen an exodus of its top players to the extent that we have in the last three seasons.
Maybe that's beacuse we had more players the top clubs wanted than those clubs at the time?
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Has the season kicked off already?
Did you not see any of last season?
Yes, every game at home and quite a few away where I murmered to myself nasty things about MON walking out on us when he did.
Wait until the end of the window and see what the squad looks like before stating going backwards as the conclusion to the coming season.
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The real concern is this...
We are now a mid table also ran club that WILL sell its best players if another club comes sniffing.
We will not be able to challenge for the top six so European football is out [unless we win a cup, which is not likely]
Man U
Arsenal
Chelsea
Man City
Liverpool
Spurs
Everton, Villa, Blackburn
Thats our level, sad but true.
The board really need to decide how they want the club to move forward in the future, are we just going to be happy to survive and have an odd cup run? or do they want to challenge for the top six [top 4 is a non starter]?
The current sell off of the cream and leave the rest [and the manager who specialises in 'budget management' says to me that they have already given up on this upcomming season and are positioning Villa as a mid table survivor
Shame
I think you're placing us about right in terms of current 'on paper' squads. Might change though, we'll see.
I think, more than anything else, the club should be honest about our ambitions. If it's mid-table until somebody willing to plough in more dough, so be it.
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Yes, every game at home and quite a few away where I murmered to myself nasty things about MON walking out on us when he did.
Wait until the end of the window and see what the squad looks like before stating going backwards as the conclusion to the coming season.
Who said anything about "the conclusion to the coming season"? It's an inescapable fact that in the last 12 months the club has gone backwards. The forthcoming season may reverse that trend, it may not.
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The club genuinely tried to crack the top 4 and we came close, but following the failed attempt it’s been belt tightening ever since. I think we have to accept these austerity measures and realise that we gave it a go, but that MON spunked the chance away getting in shitty players on ridiculous wages.
Until every one of the garbage that MON bought is moved on, then we cannot move forward and we’ll have to accept our place nestled between Everton, Blackburn Fulham et al....... Not exactly a recipe for flogging season tickets though is it?
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Has the season kicked off already?
Did you not see any of last season?
Yes, every game at home and quite a few away where I murmered to myself nasty things about MON walking out on us when he did.
Wait until the end of the window and see what the squad looks like before stating going backwards as the conclusion to the coming season.
I would get this on a banner or a poster and stick it everywhere in the birmingham area as this is the truth. No body knows what is going on at the club, It happened with buying bent, It happend with appointing AM, It'll happen with players this summer :)
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I think what concerns me most isn't that we are a selling club, by that we have become such a dreadfully run club in the space of a year.
We just seem to flounder around cluelessly.
Exactly ..
If we had someone in the managerial chair in the mould of say BFR or indeed MON, someone with a bit of charisma and football nouse, then I wouldn't be bothered that much as its a good price for an above average player.
However, we have McGinge and with his previous record, this does not bode well and sends out completely the wrong signals for prospective transfer targets and indeed the football world as a whole.
Dear oh dear..
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Who isn't a selling club?
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Who isn't a selling club?
Real Ale Madrid
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Who isn't a selling club?
The distinction is between clubs who sell players, as all clubs do, and clubs who routinely and consistently sell their very best players, as we do.
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Who isn't a selling club?
The distinction is between clubs who sell players, as all clubs do, and clubs who routinely and consistently sell their very best players, as we do.
I tell you something, i'm sick of comparisons to clubs like Manure selling their best players.
Manure can sell Ronaldo and it doesn't affect them one iota, they still have masses of quality in their squad.
The only real quality in ours was Bent, Ashley and Weasel.
Two of them have now gone.
Our defence is suspect in the extreme and our midfield is so-so, with only possible potential in Makoun and Delph.
Scratch the surface of our squad and it doesn't look good.
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The club genuinely tried to crack the top 4 and we came close, but following the failed attempt it’s been belt tightening ever since. I think we have to accept these austerity measures and realise that we gave it a go, but that MON spunked the chance away getting in shitty players on ridiculous wages.
Until every one of the garbage that MON bought is moved on, then we cannot move forward and we’ll have to accept our place nestled between Everton, Blackburn Fulham et al....... Not exactly a recipe for flogging season tickets though is it?
Our team of
Friedel
Cuellar, Collins, Dunne, L Young
Downing, Milner, Petrov, A Young
Agbonlahor Carew
was a good team team (6th, 2*Wembley) that could have been very good with the addition of a full-back a central midfielder and another striker.
Instead, we have recouped approx. 75% of the money O'Neill spent on transfer fees with the sales of Milner, Young and Downing.
From a position where we were beginning to look like challenging Liverpool and Arsenal, we now have a squad that's equivalent to Fulham and Blackburn and some way short of Everton, Sunderland and perhaps Newcastle.
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I tell you something, i'm sick of comparisons to clubs like Manure selling their best players.
Manure can sell Ronaldo and it doesn't affect them one iota, they still have masses of quality in their squad.
It's all comparative though. Man Utd have better player than us, but then Ronaldo was head and shoulders above anything else they had. So is he any greater a miss for them than Ash will be for us?
The difference is that they managed to kick on after he left. We did after Barry, but not after Milner. What happens post Ash and Downing remains to be seen.
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The club genuinely tried to crack the top 4 and we came close, but following the failed attempt it’s been belt tightening ever since. I think we have to accept these austerity measures and realise that we gave it a go, but that MON spunked the chance away getting in shitty players on ridiculous wages.
Until every one of the garbage that MON bought is moved on, then we cannot move forward and we’ll have to accept our place nestled between Everton, Blackburn Fulham et al....... Not exactly a recipe for flogging season tickets though is it?
Our team of
Friedel
Cuellar, Collins, Dunne, L Young
Downing, Milner, Petrov, A Young
Agbonlahor Carew
was a good team team (6th, 2*Wembley) that could have been very good with the addition of a full-back a central midfielder and another striker.
Instead, we have recouped approx. 75% of the money O'Neill spent on transfer fees with the sales of Milner, Young and Downing.
From a position where we were beginning to look like challenging Liverpool and Arsenal, we now have a squad that's equivalent to Fulham and Blackburn and some way short of Everton, Sunderland and perhaps Newcastle.
At the moment. Until we see who the replacements are we really can't judge the direction of the club can we?
As an aside, why do you think we've slid so much? Is it purely down to Martin leaving in your opinion?
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Randy was quoted last August that we are a sell to buy club so that is how it is!
Sell to buy is fine, I could live with that tbh. But what we appear to be at the moment is a 'sell not to buy club'. Much of the incoming money from transfers it seems is not available to the manager.
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I think our slide is down to the crap MON bought and not his departure. Its crippled us and because we can't sell on the likes of Heskey, Beye, Dunne and Warnock we are forced instead to sell the better players to balance the books and so consistently weaken our position.
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It's all comparative though. Man Utd have better player than us, but then Ronaldo was head and shoulders above anything else they had. So is he any greater a miss for them than Ash will be for us?
The difference is that they managed to kick on after he left. We did after Barry, but not after Milner. What happens post Ash and Downing remains to be seen.
The difference John is that they sold Ronaldo whereas we have sold Barry, Milner, Young and now Downing. The claim that they are a selling club in the same way that we are is totally bogus.
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Who isn't a selling club?
The distinction is between clubs who sell players, as all clubs do, and clubs who routinely and consistently sell their very best players, as we do.
Also, when people say that every club sells it's players, there's a difference between selling your best player to say, Real Madrid, Man U or Liverpool. I think that's why many people wish AY well, they know he's going to a much bigger club. Liverpool on the other hand, whilst certainly a big club, are someone we should be competing with - looking at where they're at these days. Downing has looked at his options and decided he'd be better off there. Fair enough, it just shows where our ambitions lie at the moment.
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The club genuinely tried to crack the top 4 and we came close, but following the failed attempt it’s been belt tightening ever since. I think we have to accept these austerity measures and realise that we gave it a go, but that MON spunked the chance away getting in shitty players on ridiculous wages.
Until every one of the garbage that MON bought is moved on, then we cannot move forward and we’ll have to accept our place nestled between Everton, Blackburn Fulham et al....... Not exactly a recipe for flogging season tickets though is it?
Our team of
Friedel
Cuellar, Collins, Dunne, L Young
Downing, Milner, Petrov, A Young
Agbonlahor Carew
was a good team team (6th, 2*Wembley) that could have been very good with the addition of a full-back a central midfielder and another striker.
Instead, we have recouped approx. 75% of the money O'Neill spent on transfer fees with the sales of Milner, Young and Downing.
From a position where we were beginning to look like challenging Liverpool and Arsenal, we now have a squad that's equivalent to Fulham and Blackburn and some way short of Everton, Sunderland and perhaps Newcastle.
At the moment. Until we see who the replacements are we really can't judge the direction of the club can we?
As an aside, why do you think we've slid so much? Is it purely down to Martin leaving in your opinion?
It is what happens when you decide to make cutbacks in the PL. O'Neill leaving was a symptom of the problem not the cause.
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Over on the General's thread on VT, someone has posted something referrign to this:
I think you will be hearing quite a bit from the Club in the next couple of weeks...from the Manager and from the Board. More importantly, you will see "action" which is the way Randy has always operated...words mean very little but actions speak loudly.
which the General posted on June 19th.
Now, I don't want to be pointing the finger at the General on this, he's doing his job and trying to do it the best he can in circumstances which are constantly changing, but I do wonder why we have a PR policy that seems to allow for vague, bland, cheerleading statements like this, because, well intentioned though they are, they just backfire on too regular a basis.
Something like "words mean little ... actions speak very loudly" in a post referring to "hearing quite a bit "in the period which ended ten days ago are surely just asking to be thrown back in their faces?
I feel sorry for the General getting sent around to firefight with statements like this, as he's really being sent out as a sacrificial lamb.
I don't really see much point in clamouring that he come back on here or on VT and answer questions, to be honest. They don't need to "tell" us anything (see statement on the OS last night, for that matter), they just need to *do* it and do it fast.
A few weeks ago, we were worried that we needed to do something to lift the mood of the place as things appeared to be on the slide. Fast forward to now, and not only have we done anything to that end, we've sold another of our best players.
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It's all comparative though. Man Utd have better player than us, but then Ronaldo was head and shoulders above anything else they had. So is he any greater a miss for them than Ash will be for us?
The difference is that they managed to kick on after he left. We did after Barry, but not after Milner. What happens post Ash and Downing remains to be seen.
The difference John is that they sold Ronaldo whereas we have sold Barry, Milner, Young and now Downing. The claim that they are a selling club in the same way that we are is totally bogus.
And it's also a claim I never personally made.
My point is that, in a similar position to Spurs, the selling of the players does not define you - it's what you do post selling them that does. We got it right after Barry, but struggled after Milner.
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I think I'm right in saying that each of our Players Of The Season for the last 3 years have promptly buggered off within weeks (Barry, Milner and Downing). Crewe and Wigan might feel comfortable being a feeder club but this is Aston Villa and it makes me boke having us used as a stepping stone to bigger things. We're a selling club and no mistake, unless the season's going pear shaped and we splash out zillions for someone to rescue it (Bent), we don't seem interested in persuading proper talent to come to the club yet happily wave ta ta to our best ones. All we need to do now is flog Bent off, then we'll have an entire squad of B listers, C listers, fruitcakes, fatties and froth.
Disgusted of Aldridge.
I don't know what boke means, but the rest is pretty much spot on for me.
Bemused of Bloxwich.
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Over on the General's thread on VT, someone has posted something referrign to this:
I think you will be hearing quite a bit from the Club in the next couple of weeks...from the Manager and from the Board. More importantly, you will see "action" which is the way Randy has always operated...words mean very little but actions speak loudly.
which the General posted on June 19th.
Yet another stunning own goal from the board.
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Over on the General's thread on VT, someone has posted something referrign to this:
I think you will be hearing quite a bit from the Club in the next couple of weeks...from the Manager and from the Board. More importantly, you will see "action" which is the way Randy has always operated...words mean very little but actions speak loudly.
which the General posted on June 19th.
Yet another stunning own goal from the board.
Actions sure do Gen., sure do Sir.
We've certainly been witness to a lot of action - I bet Reforms bank loves Randy.
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We all need to calm down here. The board have clearly seen McLeish's record in the Championship and decided he's the man to lead us in our upcoming role as a yo-yo club. In your face Blues and Albion, we're going to do it better than you!
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Over on the General's thread on VT, someone has posted something referrign to this:
I think you will be hearing quite a bit from the Club in the next couple of weeks...from the Manager and from the Board. More importantly, you will see "action" which is the way Randy has always operated...words mean very little but actions speak loudly.
which the General posted on June 19th.
Yet another stunning own goal from the board.
To be fair it is indeed action, if by action they mean flogging off our two best players and making pleading phone calls to fans to renew.
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We all need to calm down here. The board have clearly seen McLeish's record in the Championship and decided he's the man to lead us in our upcoming role as a yo-yo club. In your face Blues and Albion, we're going to do it better than you!
Aha, the 5 year plan is almost reached.
'We're going up, we're going down' ..... yep, that's the song the players may be running out to next season :-)
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The Dream is over,MONRandy, Cahill, Barry,Milner, Young, Downing.
I actually don't have a problem with players being sold off at a profit, it happens everywhere. What i do have a problem with is how that money is used. if we were buying up the next raft of upcoming England internationals, great. But we are notFootball moves in cylce - ours is down.
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What does "Boke" mean?
Should be boak: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/boak
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What does "Boke" mean?
Should be boak: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/boak
nice one Stu, have approached Wiktionary so I can now be mentioned in the same breath as Welsh and Rankin...
Quotations
1996, Irvine Welsh, Trainspotting [1]
— God sake... god sake... Mr Houston repeated as Mrs Houston boaked and I made a pathetic effort to mop some of the mess back into the sheets.
1997, Alan Warner, Movern Callar [2]
I was going to boak: I made the window and opened it but most of the sickness hit the window-sill in a heap.
1999, Ian Rankin, Black and Blue [3]
He’d skipped breakfast—didn’t like the idea of boaking it back up on the flight
2011, Alex Russon, Heroes & Villains [4]
This is Aston Villa and it makes me boak having us used as a stepping stone to bigger things
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We can't compete with the top clubs on a financial level (stupid high wages) so will have to look at developing younger players (ie Ashley Young) and eventually they move on.
Your balancing the books comment is right and until we get rid of the mediocre players MON purchased on long contracts/£40,000+ per week this will hold us back. Once those players have gone I hope we get some fresh homegrown or purchased youngsters in and build a team.
I think we can expect better than just "fresh homegrown or purchased youngsters" but only when the wage bill has been put in order. Since Lerner took over we've been wreckless instead of ruthless with some of our signings. The problem is now we're stuck with players that earn a fortune and we can't move on, so we have to keep paying them which is draining the club financially.
I posted this elsewhere but take a look at this list and ask yourself what the hell were we thinking..
Habib Beye, 31 years old, fee £2.5m, 3 year contract, £40k wages
Emile Heskey, 31 years old, fee £3.5m, 3 and a half year contract, £65k wages
Stiliyan Petrov, 29 year old, contract extension, 4 year contract, £55k wages
Richard Dunne, 29 years old, fee £6m, 4 year contract, £50k wages
The age refers to the age of signing, sadly not their current age.
Now who is going to take them off our hands and why the hell would they want to leave for less money?
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We can't compete with the top clubs on a financial level (stupid high wages) so will have to look at developing younger players (ie Ashley Young) and eventually they move on.
Your balancing the books comment is right and until we get rid of the mediocre players MON purchased on long contracts/£40,000+ per week this will hold us back. Once those players have gone I hope we get some fresh homegrown or purchased youngsters in and build a team.
I think we can expect better than just "fresh homegrown or purchased youngsters" but only when the wage bill has been put in order. Since Lerner took over we've been wreckless instead of ruthless with some of our signings. The problem is now we're stuck with players that earn a fortune and we can't move on, so we have to keep paying them which is draining the club financially.
I posted this elsewhere but take a look at this list and ask yourself what the hell were we thinking..
Habib Beye, 31 years old, fee £2.5m, 3 year contract, £40k wages
Emile Heskey, 31 years old, fee £3.5m, 3 and a half year contract, £65k wages
Stiliyan Petrov, 29 year old, contract extension, 4 year contract, £55k wages
Richard Dunne, 29 years old, fee £6m, 4 year contract, £50k wages
The age refers to the age of signing, sadly not their current age.
Now who is going to take them off our hands and why the hell would they want to leave for less money?
I think we also need to be taking into accoubnt what they contribute. This time last year we weren't concerned what Dunne cost as he was producing on the pitch and should he get back to that it's not 'wasted money'. The likes of beye are, but then we've moved quite a few on to start the process already.
Should Heskey and Beye go (and aren't they both out of contract in summer 2012?) then we'll hopefully be in a position of everyone earning their keep. That of course is under the presumption that McLeish utilises Warnock and Ireland.
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We can't compete with the top clubs on a financial level (stupid high wages) so will have to look at developing younger players (ie Ashley Young) and eventually they move on.
Your balancing the books comment is right and until we get rid of the mediocre players MON purchased on long contracts/£40,000+ per week this will hold us back. Once those players have gone I hope we get some fresh homegrown or purchased youngsters in and build a team.
I think we can expect better than just "fresh homegrown or purchased youngsters" but only when the wage bill has been put in order. Since Lerner took over we've been wreckless instead of ruthless with some of our signings. The problem is now we're stuck with players that earn a fortune and we can't move on, so we have to keep paying them which is draining the club financially.
I posted this elsewhere but take a look at this list and ask yourself what the hell were we thinking..
Habib Beye, 31 years old, fee £2.5m, 3 year contract, £40k wages
Emile Heskey, 31 years old, fee £3.5m, 3 and a half year contract, £65k wages
Stiliyan Petrov, 29 year old, contract extension, 4 year contract, £55k wages
Richard Dunne, 29 years old, fee £6m, 4 year contract, £50k wages
The age refers to the age of signing, sadly not their current age.
Now who is going to take them off our hands and why the hell would they want to leave for less money?
Which clubs don't have players aged 30+ on PL wages?
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John, it's not what they cost but the ridiculous length of the contracts and the wages we put them on.
As I mentioned yesterday, Spurs captain Michael Dawson has been on £30k and they've just offered him a £5k increase and he's only 27. We seemed to have thrown money and lengthy contracts around to players with zero sell on value, like it was going out of fashion. The way I see it, the last 5 years have been a complete and utter waste of time and money. Now we are paying the price.
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John, it's not what they cost but the ridiculous length of the contracts and the wages we put them on.
As I mentioned yesterday, Spurs captain Michael Dawson has been on £30k and they've just offered him a £5k increase and he's only 27. We seemed to have thrown money and lengthy contracts around to players with zero sell on value, like it was going out of fashion. The way I see it, the last 5 years have been a complete and utter waste of time and money. Now we are paying the price.
It might take a year or so more to get rid of much of that crap as possible. I don't think it will stop us from buying though. It will just dictate the kind of buying we do. Wages and signing bonuses hurt a club far more than transfer fees do.
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We can't compete with the top clubs on a financial level (stupid high wages) so will have to look at developing younger players (ie Ashley Young) and eventually they move on.
Your balancing the books comment is right and until we get rid of the mediocre players MON purchased on long contracts/£40,000+ per week this will hold us back. Once those players have gone I hope we get some fresh homegrown or purchased youngsters in and build a team.
I think we can expect better than just "fresh homegrown or purchased youngsters" but only when the wage bill has been put in order. Since Lerner took over we've been wreckless instead of ruthless with some of our signings. The problem is now we're stuck with players that earn a fortune and we can't move on, so we have to keep paying them which is draining the club financially.
I posted this elsewhere but take a look at this list and ask yourself what the hell were we thinking..
Habib Beye, 31 years old, fee £2.5m, 3 year contract, £40k wages
Emile Heskey, 31 years old, fee £3.5m, 3 and a half year contract, £65k wages
Stiliyan Petrov, 29 year old, contract extension, 4 year contract, £55k wages
Richard Dunne, 29 years old, fee £6m, 4 year contract, £50k wages
The age refers to the age of signing, sadly not their current age.
Now who is going to take them off our hands and why the hell would they want to leave for less money?
Which clubs don't have players aged 30+ on PL wages?
At least get the question right: Which clubs don't sign players aged 30+ on PL wages and 4 year contracts?
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John, it's not what they cost but the ridiculous length of the contracts and the wages we put them on.
As I mentioned yesterday, Spurs captain Michael Dawson has been on £30k and they've just offered him a £5k increase and he's only 27. We seemed to have thrown money and lengthy contracts around to players with zero sell on value, like it was going out of fashion. The way I see it, the last 5 years have been a complete and utter waste of time and money. Now we are paying the price.
If Spurs are only willing to pay Dawson £35k a week he'll be off!
My point was that these wages are not out of line with the going rate for a top 6 club. And a player in their late 20s (Petrov and Dunne) would not be signing unless it was at least a 3 year deal. I fully agree with Beye and Heskey as they are a bit older, but the biggest issue with them is being shit at football.
We have a wages/turnover issue as we all know, but I've always felt that is as much a matter of the turnover being low for a top 6 club as it is the wages being high. If a players is in and playing well then we're utilising our resources well, but once they're out of the first team picture they are a drain as we're working on quite tight margins. If we are to get back to where we were, or even higher, then players in the late 20s/early 30s on that sort of money should be a given. What we need to do is re-balance it so that anyone earning that sort of money is worth it, or at least as close as you get with a modern footballer. And that means no more Beyes, Sidwells or Harewoods and instead untilising our youth players to flesh out the squad.
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We had a close run thing with relegation last season, now we have sold two of our best players and you can bet that Bent is probably weighing up his options as we speak!
So we are likely to start the next season in a weaker position with a suspect manager [no change from last season] and a lack of funds to improve the situation.
I would estimate that bottom half to mid table is highly likely for next season with the drop is revenue and ticket sales that that will entail, leading to a further eroding of our position.
Its a case of good bye top six and hello to being level with Wolves and West Brom
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I posted this elsewhere but take a look at this list and ask yourself what the hell were we thinking..
Habib Beye, 31 years old, fee £2.5m, 3 year contract, £40k wages
Emile Heskey, 31 years old, fee £3.5m, 3 and a half year contract, £65k wages
Stiliyan Petrov, 29 year old, contract extension, 4 year contract, £55k wages
Richard Dunne, 29 years old, fee £6m, 4 year contract, £50k wages
The age refers to the age of signing, sadly not their current age.
Now who is going to take them off our hands and why the hell would they want to leave for less money?
So much for all the nonsense that used to get trotted out during O'Neill's reign about Villa doing things 'the right way'.
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I posted this elsewhere but take a look at this list and ask yourself what the hell were we thinking..
Habib Beye, 31 years old, fee £2.5m, 3 year contract, £40k wages
Emile Heskey, 31 years old, fee £3.5m, 3 and a half year contract, £65k wages
Stiliyan Petrov, 29 year old, contract extension, 4 year contract, £55k wages
Richard Dunne, 29 years old, fee £6m, 4 year contract, £50k wages
The age refers to the age of signing, sadly not their current age.
Now who is going to take them off our hands and why the hell would they want to leave for less money?
So much for all the nonsense that used to get trotted out during O'Neill's reign about Villa doing things 'the right way'.
Dunne £50k a week ffs, you'd think he'd at least try to look like a footballer.
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John, it's not what they cost but the ridiculous length of the contracts and the wages we put them on.
As I mentioned yesterday, Spurs captain Michael Dawson has been on £30k and they've just offered him a £5k increase and he's only 27. We seemed to have thrown money and lengthy contracts around to players with zero sell on value, like it was going out of fashion. The way I see it, the last 5 years have been a complete and utter waste of time and money. Now we are paying the price.
We can't compete with the top clubs on a financial level (stupid high wages) so will have to look at developing younger players (ie Ashley Young) and eventually they move on.
Your balancing the books comment is right and until we get rid of the mediocre players MON purchased on long contracts/£40,000+ per week this will hold us back. Once those players have gone I hope we get some fresh homegrown or purchased youngsters in and build a team.
I think we can expect better than just "fresh homegrown or purchased youngsters" but only when the wage bill has been put in order. Since Lerner took over we've been wreckless instead of ruthless with some of our signings. The problem is now we're stuck with players that earn a fortune and we can't move on, so we have to keep paying them which is draining the club financially.
I posted this elsewhere but take a look at this list and ask yourself what the hell were we thinking..
Habib Beye, 31 years old, fee £2.5m, 3 year contract, £40k wages
Emile Heskey, 31 years old, fee £3.5m, 3 and a half year contract, £65k wages
Stiliyan Petrov, 29 year old, contract extension, 4 year contract, £55k wages
Richard Dunne, 29 years old, fee £6m, 4 year contract, £50k wages
The age refers to the age of signing, sadly not their current age.
Now who is going to take them off our hands and why the hell would they want to leave for less money?
Which clubs don't have players aged 30+ on PL wages?
At least get the question right: Which clubs don't sign players aged 30+ on PL wages and 4 year contracts?
Technically, your question excludes Petrov (27 when signed), Dunne (29) and Heskey (3.5 year contract), so I'm not sure it is more "right" than my question. Perhaps you can come up with a question or statement that fits the point you're trying to make.
P.S. Dawson issued a statement categorically denying that he has any issues with his current contract.
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Technically, your question excludes Petrov (27 when signed), Dunne (29) and Heskey (3.5 year contract), so I'm not sure it is more "right" than my question. Perhaps you can come up with a question or statement that fits the point you're trying to make.
You're right, technically, I should have extended it to '29 year olds plus with 3 to 4 year contracts on stupid wages'. However the point still stands. Add to that, Petrov was 29 not 27 when given a four year extension, in fact he was 6 weeks off being 30.
Which clubs don't sign players aged 29+ on PL wages and 3 to 4 year contracts?
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Technically, your question excludes Petrov (27 when signed), Dunne (29) and Heskey (3.5 year contract), so I'm not sure it is more "right" than my question. Perhaps you can come up with a question or statement that fits the point you're trying to make.
You're right, technically, I should have extended it to '29 year olds plus with 3 to 4 year contracts on stupid wages'. However the point still stands. Add to that, Petrov was 29 not 27 when given a four year extension, in fact he was 6 weeks off being 30.
Which clubs don't sign players aged 29+ on PL wages and 3 to 4 year contracts?
Good question, I can only think of Arsenal and they've probably done it once or twice.
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The Heskey and Beye wages defy belief.
What were O'Neill and Mr Lerner Sir thinking?
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Without reading it (I don't think I have the will!), this is another "The board, the manager and everything at Villa is shit" thread isn't it?
Same people on both sides, same arguments we've had for weeks?
Please confirm then I don't have to bother with it.
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The Heskey and Beye wages defy belief.
What were O'Neill and Mr Lerner Sir thinking?
Heskey was going to get us into the Champions league, remember?
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Technically, your question excludes Petrov (27 when signed), Dunne (29) and Heskey (3.5 year contract), so I'm not sure it is more "right" than my question. Perhaps you can come up with a question or statement that fits the point you're trying to make.
You're right, technically, I should have extended it to '29 year olds plus with 3 to 4 year contracts on stupid wages'. However the point still stands. Add to that, Petrov was 29 not 27 when given a four year extension, in fact he was 6 weeks off being 30.
Which clubs don't sign players aged 29+ on PL wages and 3 to 4 year contracts?
Good question, I can only think of Arsenal and they've probably done it once or twice.
Again, technically you're right, as I haven't excluded goalkeepers but I'm struggling to think of aging players that are given lengthy contracts on high wages. Closest I can get is 30 year old Michael Owen at Man Utd on a two year contract and Newcastle signing 45 year old Obafemi Martins on a 4 year contract.
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The Heskey and Beye wages defy belief.
What were O'Neill and Mr Lerner Sir thinking?
Heskey was going to get us into the Champions league, remember?
Wasn't Beye NUFC player of the year when we signed him?
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Without reading it (I don't think I have the will!), this is another "The board, the manager and everything at Villa is shit" thread isn't it?
Same people on both sides, same arguments we've had for weeks?
Please confirm then I don't have to bother with it.
Pretty much.
But if you want to avoid such a thread Off Topic is the only place you're safe right now!
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Technically, your question excludes Petrov (27 when signed), Dunne (29) and Heskey (3.5 year contract), so I'm not sure it is more "right" than my question. Perhaps you can come up with a question or statement that fits the point you're trying to make.
You're right, technically, I should have extended it to '29 year olds plus with 3 to 4 year contracts on stupid wages'. However the point still stands. Add to that, Petrov was 29 not 27 when given a four year extension, in fact he was 6 weeks off being 30.
Which clubs don't sign players aged 29+ on PL wages and 3 to 4 year contracts?
Good question, I can only think of Arsenal and they've probably done it once or twice.
Again, technically you're right, as I haven't excluded goalkeepers but I'm struggling to think of aging players that are given lengthy contracts on high wages. Closest I can get is 30 year old Michael Owen at Man Utd on a two year contract and Newcastle signing 45 year old Obafemi Martins on a 4 year contract.
I don’t know where to find stats on the age of players and the length of the last contract signed. I can relatively easily find stats on players over 30 and when their contracts finish. I don’t think we appear to be in any worse shape than the other clubs I looked at.
Richard Dunne (06/2013), Luke Young (06/2012), Habib Beye (06/2012), Stilyan Petrov (06/2013), Emile Heskey (06/2012)
William Gallas (06/2013), Ledley King (06/2012), Peter Crouch (06/2014), Robbie Keane (06/2013)
Joseph Yobo (06/2014), Distin (06/2012), Tony Hibbert (06/2014), Phil Neville (06/2012), Mikel Arteta (06/2015), Leon Osman (06/2014), Tim Cahill (06/2014), Luis Saha (06/2012)
Kyrgiakox (06/2012), Jamie Carragher (06/2013), Fabio Aurelio (06/2012), Christian Poulson (06/2013), Stephen Gerrard(06/2013), Maxi Rodriguez (06/2013), Jovanovic (06/2013), Dirk Kuyt (06/2013)
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There is a chapter in 'Why England Lose' which suggests that most successful clubs are 'selling clubs'. A big money sale generally means that the club has used an opportunity to take advantage of the transfer market, which is driven by perceived quality rather than any quantifiable value, to get an inflated price for a player. The best clubs reinvest this money wisely. Lyon, Barca and Man U are cited iirc.
You can't judge a club's stature by the personnel that is leaving a club, but by who is joining it. So we're fucked
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Answer to the question : yes of course we are a selling club.
Our squad looks piss poor, even with three new signings we are in for a season of struggle.
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Thanks, VD. I've filled in the missing age at end of contract. Where the date is close to their birthday, I've mentioned it, just to get the clear picture.
Richard Dunne 33, nearly 34 (06/2013), Luke Young 31, almost 32 (06/2012), Habib Beye 34 (06/2012), Stilyan Petrov (five days short of) 34 (06/2013), Emile Heskey 34 (06/2012)
William Gallas 34 (06/2013), Ledley King 31 (06/2012), Peter Crouch 33 (06/2014), Robbie Keane 32 (06/2013)
Joseph Yobo 33 (06/2014), Distin 34 (06/2012), Tony Hibbert 33 (06/2014), Phil Neville 35 (06/2012), Mikel Arteta 34 (06/2015), Leon Osman 33 (06/2014), Tim Cahill 33 (06/2014), Luis Saha 33 (06/2012)
Kyrgiakox 32 (06/2012), Jamie Carragher 35 (06/2013), Fabio Aurelio 32 (06/2012), Christian Poulson 33 (06/2013), Stephen Gerrard 33 and one month (06/2013), Maxi Rodriguez 32 (06/2013), Jovanovic 32 (06/2013), Dirk Kuyt 32 (06/2013)
Not pretty reading, especially for ourselves and Everton.
Ignoring Jamie Carragher, who will no doubt join the Liverpool backroom staff before the end of his contract, only the cheating, diving, Scouse bastard gets above 32, which for me, should be the cut off age. We've basically given players an additional two years salary when in reality they won't be anywhere near the first team or they wouldn't be if we could get them off the wage bill.
It's stupid contracts like these that restrict us from getting better players in, thus keeping our best players because we can't shift the deadwood.
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Surely t's not just about who you sell and for how much, what you do with cash is a huge factor. As I pointed out in another thread, Spurs have sold some big names in the last few years but have re-invested wisely and reaped the rewards. Man United sold Ronaldo, their best player in years, apparently to help finance their huge debt but they are still competing at the very top level.
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We have now sold Ash and Downing plus released a load of players. The wage bill must have been savagely cut, there is no excuse not to spend.
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We are no more or less a selling club than all but 3 premier league teams. Liverpool are a selling club, they sold their best player to fund this little spree of theirs. We must reciprocate by using the money we've gained from selling our best players to buy others.
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We have now sold Ash and Downing plus released a load of players. The wage bill must have been savagely cut, there is no excuse not to spend.
Only next year will be start to see the benefits of reducing the wage bill. I dread to think what was the percentage of our income was player salaries last season, as be failed to really cut it but added Bent and Makoun.
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We have now sold Ash and Downing plus released a load of players. The wage bill must have been savagely cut, there is no excuse not to spend.
Only next year will be start to the benefits of reducing the wage bill. I dread to think what was the percentage of our income was player salaries last season, as be failed to really cut it but added Bent and Makoun.
Wasn't it 90% or something ridiculous like that?
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There is a chapter in 'Why England Lose' which suggests that most successful clubs are 'selling clubs'. A big money sale generally means that the club has used an opportunity to take advantage of the transfer market, which is driven by perceived quality rather than any quantifiable value, to get an inflated price for a player. The best clubs reinvest this money wisely. Lyon, Barca and Man U are cited iirc.
You can't judge a club's stature by the personnel that is leaving a club, but by who is joining it. So we're fucked
Good theory, and one we need to embrace IMO.
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There is a chapter in 'Why England Lose' which suggests that most successful clubs are 'selling clubs'. A big money sale generally means that the club has used an opportunity to take advantage of the transfer market, which is driven by perceived quality rather than any quantifiable value, to get an inflated price for a player. The best clubs reinvest this money wisely. Lyon, Barca and Man U are cited iirc.
You can't judge a club's stature by the personnel that is leaving a club, but by who is joining it. So we're fucked
Good theory, and one we need to embrace IMO.
The example of Lyon was a reason why I initially thought Houllier was a good appointment for us. I read that book and with Houllier being so heavily involved in the Lyon dynasty I was looking forward to seeing if he had any ideas in that direction. We'll never know, but it seemed as if any revolutionary ideas he might have had got swamped by the way football in Britain is expected to be done.
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We are no more or less a selling club than all but 3 premier league teams. Liverpool are a selling club, they sold their best player to fund this little spree of theirs. We must reciprocate by using the money we've gained from selling our best players to buy others.
Exactly! Didn't ManU sell Ronaldo? Did they reinvest? Yes! That's simply what we must do. We're all anxious to see something happening and I'm sure it will. I will miss A Young. I will not miss S Downing. Am looking forward to seeing how we play without relying on 2/3 individuals. Some of our pro's need to stand up and be counted, esp Dunne, Collins, Warnock. New players can enhance what is already there, not totally transform a team and its attitude overnight. Shrewd deals are needed and may take time to sort out. Let's be patient.
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We have now sold Ash and Downing plus released a load of players. The wage bill must have been savagely cut, there is no excuse not to spend.
Only next year will be start to the benefits of reducing the wage bill. I dread to think what was the percentage of our income was player salaries last season, as be failed to really cut it but added Bent and Makoun.
Wasn't it 90% or something ridiculous like that?
For one season we had the 6th highest wages in the league. Our Billionaire owner decided the club couldn't afford that level of investment but thankfully we could afford the £11m+ in management fees and interest payments he charged to the club.
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We have now sold Ash and Downing plus released a load of players. The wage bill must have been savagely cut, there is no excuse not to spend.
Only next year will be start to the benefits of reducing the wage bill. I dread to think what was the percentage of our income was player salaries last season, as be failed to really cut it but added Bent and Makoun.
Wasn't it 90% or something ridiculous like that?
For one season we had the 6th highest wages in the league. Our Billionaire owner decided the club couldn't afford that level of investment but thankfully we could afford the £11m+ in management fees and interest payments he charged to the club.
the dirty scoundrel!
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We have now sold Ash and Downing plus released a load of players. The wage bill must have been savagely cut, there is no excuse not to spend.
Only next year will be start to the benefits of reducing the wage bill. I dread to think what was the percentage of our income was player salaries last season, as be failed to really cut it but added Bent and Makoun.
Wasn't it 90% or something ridiculous like that?
For one season we had the 6th highest wages in the league. Our Billionaire owner decided the club couldn't afford that level of investment but thankfully we could afford the £11m+ in management fees and interest payments he charged to the club.
Villadawg,
You have always struck me as a balanced and intelligent poster, but you appear to be lost in some 'everything is shit' nightmare.
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"I think I'm right in saying that each of our Players Of The Season for the last 3 years have promptly buggered off within weeks (Barry, Milner and Downing)."
Everyone please make a diary note for May 2012: do not vote for Bent as POTS, do vote for Dunne.
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Hi all, I've been a longtime lurker to the site but feel compelled to post now given the events of the last few weeks.
I guess in response to the OP then yes we're a selling club, but no more than any of the other teams in the Premier League outside of those currently residing in the "Champions League" Holy Grail positions.
You only have to look at some of the shenanigans going on outside of ourselves over the last recent years - looking at Everton with Lescott, Spurs with Berbatov (and most probably Modric) and even Arsenal themselves particularly losing their players to Man City to know that nobody is immune to this.
Yes, we need players and I have no doubt that the positions vacated by the players that have left will be filled with replacements. I don't expect us to go on a massive spending spree to rebuild the squad, nor should be.
What we appear to be doing is emulating the route that Arsenal have taken. They have not invested massively in their team over the years, instead they have focussed on bringing their youth through and supplementing them with the occasional "value for money" signing who has been sold at the right time to maximise their profit (Thierry Henry, Ljungberg etc.) This approach, which we now seem to be copying hasn't done them any serious harm.
We are doing something that very few teams in the Premier League are doing - bringing through youngsters and blooding them, and in doing so we are fostering more of a team spirit with players who have come through the ranks and are loyal to Villa.
I believe that in the short term, because of the way we are selling players we will inevitable see a decline in our league performance, but long-term we are building for a future that not many others are doing and will ultimately benefit more in the long term if we are patient. These players are our future, they are loyal, hungry and they will see us right if we can see past the next few months.
In the long term I truly believe that by taking the approach we are, we will get back to where we belong, and possibly even have an advantage over the majority of our rivals by doing this once the bottom inevitably falls out of this crazy market with its over inflated transfer fees.
I admit at the moment thigs do look grim, but not bad enough to cost us our Premiership status, but liong term I can see the silver lining.
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In the long term I truly believe that by taking the approach we are, we will get back to where we belong,
Good post mate but the bit I've quoted you on doesn't seem to stack up with tapping up a dodgy manager and paying millions in compensation for the privilege.
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I have to admit I haven't been overwhelmed by our choice of manager - but I'm also not going to condemn him until he fucks it up - I think we should give him a chance first.
If we're willing to pay out millions in compensation instead of going for a free agent like Hughes then it would suggest to me that we do have money to spend at least otherwise we would have gone for the cheap option.
It seems to be more of a case that the powers that be are convinced that investing in youth is the way to go rather than paying over the odds for over-priced mercenaries that will leave us at the first opportunity *cough* Downing *cough*.
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We have now sold Ash and Downing plus released a load of players. The wage bill must have been savagely cut, there is no excuse not to spend.
Only next year will be start to the benefits of reducing the wage bill. I dread to think what was the percentage of our income was player salaries last season, as be failed to really cut it but added Bent and Makoun.
Wasn't it 90% or something ridiculous like that?
For one season we had the 6th highest wages in the league. Our Billionaire owner decided the club couldn't afford that level of investment but thankfully we could afford the £11m+ in management fees and interest payments he charged to the club.
Villadawg,
You have always struck me as a balanced and intelligent poster, but you appear to be lost in some 'everything is shit' nightmare.
Yeah sorry, I'm finding it very difficult to find any positive angle at all.
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Villadawg has been anything but balanced since O'Neill left. However, I seem to be agreeing with him more and more since May.
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We have now sold Ash and Downing plus released a load of players. The wage bill must have been savagely cut, there is no excuse not to spend.
Only next year will be start to the benefits of reducing the wage bill. I dread to think what was the percentage of our income was player salaries last season, as be failed to really cut it but added Bent and Makoun.
Wasn't it 90% or something ridiculous like that?
For one season we had the 6th highest wages in the league. Our Billionaire owner decided the club couldn't afford that level of investment but thankfully we could afford the £11m+ in management fees and interest payments he charged to the club.
Villadawg,
You have always struck me as a balanced and intelligent poster, but you appear to be lost in some 'everything is shit' nightmare.
Yeah sorry, I'm finding it very difficult to find any positive angle at all.
It's always difficult to find things if you're not looking for them.
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...
Yeah sorry, I'm finding it very difficult to find any positive angle at all.
It's always difficult to find things if you're not looking for them.
I find it more useful to try looking at things rationally and then deciding if they are positive or negative on the basis of facts.
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...
Yeah sorry, I'm finding it very difficult to find any positive angle at all.
It's always difficult to find things if you're not looking for them.
I find it more useful to try looking at things rationally and then deciding if they are positive or negative on the basis of facts.
You interpret the facts to suit your position, same as everyone else.
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You interpret the facts to suit your position, same as everyone else.
I'd like to point out that Chris Smith doesn't speak for me on this point.
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You interpret the facts to suit your position, same as everyone else.
I'd like to point out that Chris Smith doesn't speak for me on this point.
I think Chris speaks for you more than anybody on this point.
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I think Chris speaks for you more than anybody on this point.
Which says more about you and him than it does about me.
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I think Chris speaks for you more than anybody on this point.
Which says more about you and him than it does about me.
Maybe so, but your I think Chris speaks for you more than anybody on this point.
Which says more about you and him than it does about me.
hilts, I'd llike to go into this but I'm off to bed as I've a long distance to travel tomorrow. Catch you later.
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Its a bit sad to see two of the old MON brotherhood having an arguement. A bit sad, but funneh all the same.
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hilts, I'd llike to go into this but I'm off to bed as I've a long distance to travel tomorrow. Catch you later.
Safe journey.
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Its a bit sad to see two of the old MON brotherhood having an arguement. A bit sad, but funneh all the same.
Chris and I have disagreed on a number of issues, we make our point and move on. It's not in the same category of sad and funny as it is reading your ever more desperate attempts to maintain and recycle an argument you lost a long, long time ago.
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We have now sold Ash and Downing plus released a load of players. The wage bill must have been savagely cut, there is no excuse not to spend.
Only next year will be start to the benefits of reducing the wage bill. I dread to think what was the percentage of our income was player salaries last season, as be failed to really cut it but added Bent and Makoun.
Wasn't it 90% or something ridiculous like that?
For one season we had the 6th highest wages in the league. Our Billionaire owner decided the club couldn't afford that level of investment but thankfully we could afford the £11m+ in management fees and interest payments he charged to the club.
Villadawg,
You have always struck me as a balanced and intelligent poster, but you appear to be lost in some 'everything is shit' nightmare.
He's not alone, there's quite a few formerly rational posters who've been dragged into the vortex.
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Perhaps they're still rational and just don't like what's happening at the club?
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Perhaps they're still rational and just don't like what's happening at the club?
I fully understand why people are concerned but I still think it's premature to judge the direction of the club at this stage in the summer.
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Perhaps they're still rational and just don't like what's happening at the club?
As Chris has already said, it's still a little early to be drawing conclusions.
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Perhaps they're still rational and just don't like what's happening at the club?
I fully understand why people are concerned but I still think it's premature to judge the direction of the club at this stage in the summer.
Pretty soon we'll be into "hasn't had a full pre season" excuse territory for any players we do actually sign.
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Perhaps they're still rational and just don't like what's happening at the club?
As Chris has already said, it's still a little early to be drawing conclusions.
I'll still be unhappy that we've sold two players of Young and Downing's ability at the end of August, whether we've signed N'Zogbia or not.
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Perhaps they're still rational and just don't like what's happening at the club?
I fully understand why people are concerned but I still think it's premature to judge the direction of the club at this stage in the summer.
Pretty soon we'll be into "hasn't had a full pre season" excuse territory for any players we do actually sign.
I'm not looking to make excuses but rather waiting until I've got all the evidence before passing verdict. It might be that we do bugger all and your predictions are shown to be correct but it's just the way I am that I give the benefit of the doubt.
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Perhaps they're still rational and just don't like what's happening at the club?
As Chris has already said, it's still a little early to be drawing conclusions.
I'll still be unhappy that we've sold two players of Young and Downing's ability at the end of August, whether we've signed N'Zogbia or not.
I'm disappointed that they wanted to leave but don't think we had much choice but to let them go.
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Perhaps they're still rational and just don't like what's happening at the club?
I fully understand why people are concerned but I still think it's premature to judge the direction of the club at this stage in the summer.
Pretty soon we'll be into "hasn't had a full pre season" excuse territory for any players we do actually sign.
I'm not looking to make excuses but rather waiting until I've got all the evidence before passing verdict. It might be that we do bugger all and your predictions are shown to be correct but it's just the way I am that I give the benefit of the doubt.
We'll still have a crap manager and have sold our best players by the time the season kicks off, whoever we've signed.
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Perhaps they're still rational and just don't like what's happening at the club?
As Chris has already said, it's still a little early to be drawing conclusions.
I'll still be unhappy that we've sold two players of Young and Downing's ability at the end of August, whether we've signed N'Zogbia or not.
I'll be sad to have lost Young, but in an ideal world I'd have looked to replace the bastard son of the tin-man and the lion from the Wizard of Oz.
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Perhaps they're still rational and just don't like what's happening at the club?
I fully understand why people are concerned but I still think it's premature to judge the direction of the club at this stage in the summer.
Are you aware that the General is still banging on about wages in his recent VT post?
I think the direction has been clear since summer 2009 and have no reason to believe we have changed course.
Risso is right. I am still being rational or at least I think I am. What is it in the appointment of McLeish, the release of Friedel, NRC, Carew and the sale of Young, Downing and now Cuellar that gives you room for optimism? Have you got anything other than blind faith?
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Pretty soon we'll be into "hasn't had a full pre season" excuse territory for any players we do actually sign.
Like it or not, we changed manager in the early part of the summer, so any scouting/indentifying Gezza and his staff did goes out the window. That means Mcleish starts from scratch and needs to assess what he's got and then approach agents/clubs. Plus there were two high profile departures that he may understandably have wanted sorting first, but from a budget perspective and in terms of knowing where his priorities lay.
So although that may be true about pre-season, it's a 'excuse' when it comes to how quickly the new players settle in and perform and not in relation to available funds. Whatever we're spending, it was never going to be spent quickly.
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Perhaps they're still rational and just don't like what's happening at the club?
I fully understand why people are concerned but I still think it's premature to judge the direction of the club at this stage in the summer.
Pretty soon we'll be into "hasn't had a full pre season" excuse territory for any players we do actually sign.
I'm not looking to make excuses but rather waiting until I've got all the evidence before passing verdict. It might be that we do bugger all and your predictions are shown to be correct but it's just the way I am that I give the benefit of the doubt.
We'll still have a crap manager and have sold our best players by the time the season kicks off, whoever we've signed.
That's one of the most defeatist sentences I've ever read, and you don't even have the excuse of being a Brummie!
Fuck me Risso, what would you be like if you didn't live by the sea, tax-free?
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Perhaps they're still rational and just don't like what's happening at the club?
As Chris has already said, it's still a little early to be drawing conclusions.
In looking at the trajectory of the club, it's not just about thinking what might happen next season, though, is it.
It is also about what has happened over the last year and what is happening at the moment.
I hope things turn around and will be willing McLeish on to make us look numpties as much as the next man who thought it was a bad appointment (and lest we forget, when it was first mooted there was universal disapproval and disbelief, despite some of the "holier than tho" posturing which seems to have broken out from some on the subject), but it's hard to ignore the way things have been at the club for an extended period now.
And I say that as one who can be described to have been a "happy clapper" where the board and their vision for the club is concerned for a long time until relatively recently.
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Perhaps they're still rational and just don't like what's happening at the club?
I fully understand why people are concerned but I still think it's premature to judge the direction of the club at this stage in the summer.
Are you aware that the General is still banging on about wages in his recent VT post?
I think the direction has been clear since summer 2009 and have no reason to believe we have changed course.
Risso is right. I am still being rational or at least I think I am. What is it in the appointment of McLeish, the release of Friedel, NRC, Carew and the sale of Young, Downing and now Cuellar that gives you room for optimism? Have you got anything other than blind faith?
We spent quite a bit in 2009 - do you mean 2010 when Milner went?
I can't speak for Chris, but al the departures are understandable to me:-
Freidel - too old and should not have been given the 2 years he wanted.
NRC - Wanted a lot more than he was worth
Carew - wasn't contributing and right time for him to leave
Ash & Downing - both wanted to leave and big money offers came in
As for 'blind faith' I'm more inclined to look towards the deals Randy has sanctioned in the past and think "Yeah, he ain't afraid to spend." I think we're seeing a clearing of the decks ready for McLeish to bring his own men in.
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Ash & Downing - both wanted to leave and big money offers came in
We were never going to keep Ashley as soon as Man United came in, let's be honest, and most of us hold no malice towards him.
If we are going to fight to keep our better players then we have to show them that we have ambition to go places, to do things, and we'll find we've a better chance of holding on to them.
In fact, it was that ambition that enabled us to hold on to Ashley Young for four years in the first place. I never thought he'd be off to Spurs despite the constant rumours over the years, as they weren't really much more than a sideways step.
Right now if any of our players got linked to Spurs, I'd expect them to be off like a shot, and who could blame them?
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That's one of the most defeatist sentences I've ever read, and you don't even have the excuse of being a Brummie!
Fuck me Risso, what would you be like if you didn't live by the sea, tax-free?
Eh? It's a simple statement of fact. If I'd have said to you at the end of May that by the start of the 2011/12 season, we'd have appointed Alex McLeish and sold Young and Downing, everybody would have said I was mental, and that if that it did come to pass they'd be severely pissed off.
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Perhaps they're still rational and just don't like what's happening at the club?
I fully understand why people are concerned but I still think it's premature to judge the direction of the club at this stage in the summer.
Well, I think it's ok to state your opinion whenever you like and then change/adjust it as the evidence changes, rather than withhold it until a carefully selected point in time, like it's some divine decree that everyone is waiting for.
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Perhaps they're still rational and just don't like what's happening at the club?
I fully understand why people are concerned but I still think it's premature to judge the direction of the club at this stage in the summer.
Are you aware that the General is still banging on about wages in his recent VT post?
I think the direction has been clear since summer 2009 and have no reason to believe we have changed course.
Risso is right. I am still being rational or at least I think I am. What is it in the appointment of McLeish, the release of Friedel, NRC, Carew and the sale of Young, Downing and now Cuellar that gives you room for optimism? Have you got anything other than blind faith?
I've got the fact that amidst all the despondency in January we went out and smashed our transfer record.
I'm not saying that you're wrong but for the manger to bring in his own players others have to leave and the difference between us is that you've made your mind up now while I am waiting until I see how they respond.
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Perhaps they're still rational and just don't like what's happening at the club?
I fully understand why people are concerned but I still think it's premature to judge the direction of the club at this stage in the summer.
Well, I think it's ok to state your opinion whenever you like and then change/adjust it as the evidence changes, rather than withhold it until a carefully selected point in time, like it's some divine decree that everyone is waiting for.
Where have I said it isn't ok, you pompous arse?
I want to wait, is that ok with you?
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Less of that please Chris.
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Good piece from Mat Kendrick here. (http://www.birminghammail.net/birmingham-sport/aston-villa-fc/aston-villa-news/2011/07/15/mat-kendrick-comment-aston-villa-are-down-but-not-out-97319-29059008/)
Sums up the present situation pretty well in my opinion.
Particlularly liked the line "McLeish’s recent introduction to Villa was more warfare than fanfare..."
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I keep reading a list of our best players leaving...
Barry, Milner & Young... yeh (agreed)
However, Downing??? Please! Getting £20mil or getting anything over £5 for that waste of space is absolutely fantastic business.
£10mil for N'Zogbia - the guy isn't exactly brilliant but is 10x the player Downing is.
Why people rate him so highly, when he only had an accuracy of about 20% odd crosses last year... Good riddance to the man!
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£10mil for N'Zogbia - the guy isn't exactly brilliant but is 10x the player Downing is.
Slight exaggeration I feel - not that I'd complain if he was (and we signed him).
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Good piece from Mat Kendrick here. (http://www.birminghammail.net/birmingham-sport/aston-villa-fc/aston-villa-news/2011/07/15/mat-kendrick-comment-aston-villa-are-down-but-not-out-97319-29059008/)
Sums up the present situation pretty well in my opinion.
Particlularly liked the line "McLeish’s recent introduction to Villa was more warfare than fanfare..."
I thought you would have prefered this line, Chris
"Maybe it’s just as well Martin O’Neill flogged Gary Cahill to Bolton and saved Villa fans the heartache of Chelsea coming knocking directly when Cahill became particularly proficient in his trade seasons later."
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Villadawg,
You have always struck me as a balanced and intelligent poster, but you appear to be lost in some 'everything is shit' nightmare.
Villadawg's descent into madness started the day O'Neill left, we are now seeing the final complete breakdown of a once sane, sensible poster. Shame.
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Villadawg,
You have always struck me as a balanced and intelligent poster, but you appear to be lost in some 'everything is shit' nightmare.
Villadawg's descent into madness started the day O'Neill left, we are now seeing the final complete breakdown of a once sane, sensible poster. Shame.
Lots of posters disregarding the actual facts he posts should be enough to send anybody mad. I think he's holding onto his sanity quite well under the circumstances. Better than some of the hat-stands he jousts with, who's last sliver of sanity is but a faded memory.
You have my admiration in spades Villadawg, for your stamina, your indomitable spirit, and above all, the truth you often speak.
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Bloody hell Percy, this is Villadawg on a football forum we are talking about, not Martin Luther King!
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I have a dream...that one day the truth behind Spurs' wage bill will be uncovered....
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wipe's tears from eye, awaits sound of gunshot
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Percy's quite right about the hat-stands. There are people on here who have been and are still willing to argue that nothing has changed in Randy's approach.
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Percy's quite right about the hat-stands. There are people on here who have been and are still willing to argue that nothing has changed in Randy's approach.
Absolutely and there are others even more mad that think Randy should keep throwing money at the club, despite the financial black hole we've found ourselves in. Thank god Paul Faulkner came to the rescue, eh VD? (winky)
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Percy's quite right about the hat-stands. There are people on here who have been and are still willing to argue that nothing has changed in Randy's approach.
Absolutely and there are others even more mad that think Randy should keep throwing money at the club, despite the financial black hole we've found ourselves in. Thank god Paul Faulkner came to the rescue, eh VD? (winky)
They could have put Doug back in charge rather than Faulkner. Same or better job delivered with more panache.
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Percy's quite right about the hat-stands. There are people on here who have been and are still willing to argue that nothing has changed in Randy's approach.
Absolutely and there are others even more mad that think Randy should keep throwing money at the club, despite the financial black hole we've found ourselves in. Thank god Paul Faulkner came to the rescue, eh VD? (winky)
They could have put Doug back in charge rather than Faulkner. Same or better job delivered with more panache.
Interesting point. Doug would never have allowed us to be in such a ridiculous financial situation. Saying that, like Lerner, Doug allowed Gregory to spend a fortune on a load of aging, over paid players, so maybe we're better off with Faulkner afterall.
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Bloody hell Percy, this is Villadawg on a football forum we are talking about, not Martin Luther King!
Did I get carried away? Perhaps I should have said 'I generally agree with him and I'm grateful that he keeps posting about this stuff and putting up with the brick-bats from his detractors because they'd have tired me out by now'.
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Perhaps I should have said 'I generally agree with him and I'm grateful that he keeps posting about this stuff and putting up with the brick-bats from his detractors because they'd have tired me out by now'.
I think it's more to do with you age, Grandad. (winky)
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Bloody hell Percy, this is Villadawg on a football forum we are talking about, not Martin Luther King!
Did I get carried away? Perhaps I should have said 'I generally agree with him and I'm grateful that he keeps posting about this stuff and putting up with the brick-bats from his detractors because they'd have tired me out by now'.
I would also like to add my support for the Villadawg Theorem, which is often misconstrued in the binary world that is the internet message board.
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Only slightly Perce! Actually I'm with you, while I just can't get my head around why people are so miserable when we are a month away from kick-off and we don't know who might be coming in or how the existing squad will perform under our new manager, I do appreciate those who are willing to continually fight their corner.
Given that I am more in admiration of the likes of Toronto and John M and the ubiquitous Chris Smith who are fighting their own particular corner of optimism despite being massively outnumbered by the miserablists who seem to have written this season off before it has started.
Villadawg is a renowned battler on this forum, but he's got the tide of popular opinion with him at the moment.
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... we are a month away from kick-off and we don't know who might be coming in or how the existing squad will perform under our new manager
That's precisely why people are apprehensive. Under those conditions I can't understand how some people are so optimistic.
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... we are a month away from kick-off and we don't know who might be coming in or how the existing squad will perform under our new manager
That's precisely why people are apprehensive. Under those conditions I can't understand how some people are so optimistic.
Look, we don't know, even in one of our apparent worst seasons for ages last season we finished ninth. We have a decent squad already, we will be adding to it, we won't go down.
I'd rather look to the positives and hope we prove a lot of people wrong rather than dwell on the negatives and convince myself we're doomed.
Once again, watching football is your hobby, it's something you do for entertainment, try to enjoy it eh?
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we won't go down.
That being offered as a positive about the forthcoming season neatly sums up the club's trajectory over the last 12 months and is reason enough to be looking forward without much optimism.
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... we are a month away from kick-off and we don't know who might be coming in or how the existing squad will perform under our new manager
That's precisely why people are apprehensive. Under those conditions I can't understand how some people are so optimistic.
Look, we don't know, even in one of our apparent worst seasons for ages last season we finished ninth. We have a decent squad already, we will be adding to it, we won't go down.
I'd rather look to the positives and hope we prove a lot of people wrong rather than dwell on the negatives and convince myself we're doomed.
Once again, watching football is your hobby, it's something you do for entertainment, try to enjoy it eh?
That's my take too. Sure things haven't gone all to plan. Off course the choice of manager could have been better. Yes, our finances could be better so that we can compete at the top. And yes, I want to keep a hold of our best players. I get all of that. But what I also know is that our squad is still very good. We have players that might have something to prove with a manager who really wants to prove everyone wrong.
The season is a month away. That's still a long time to sign the players we will need for the upcoming season. I don't buy this "they need time to settle in" bollocks. Darren Bent came in having never played for us and single handedly rescued our season. Good players can do that.
I want to put behind the disappointment of last season. And it was disappointing. I hope the club learned a lot from that. I want AM to now create a solid stable environment whereby the players can just concentrate on playing. That the only reason we make the headlines this season is our football, and not all of the other shit that happened last year. I want this manager to be successful because it makes my club successful. I want Stephen Ireland to be Superman again, and I want our kids to have good role models amongst the senior pros. Villa is fucking great club, and hopefully with a bit of stability we can get back to that.
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we won't go down.
That being offered as a positive about the forthcoming season neatly sums up the club's trajectory over the last 12 months and is reason enough to be looking forward without much optimism.
Oh bollocks Hilts! I was just offering that up as a fob to the multitude who think we will! I reckon we're a shoo in for upper mid-table and given the rub of the green we might even pip Liverpool for a Euro spot. Not fantastic I'll grant you, but better than the average consensus on here I reckon.
Are you going to even try to enjoy watching us next season?
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Are you going to even try to enjoy watching us next season?
I'll enjoy watching us next season if we play good football and do well, no different than you. Do I think that's likely? Not to the same extent as you do, for the reasons you gave above plus McLeish's track record and the sale of Young and Downing.
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If we get N'Zog and allow Albrighton an extended run we'll be no worse off, plus the emerging talent of Delph, the enigma that is Makoun, maybe we'll have Parker pulling the strings, the possibility of Gabby and Bent forming a relationship up front....
Yeah, you're right, it's all shit, might as well give up now.
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Add Bannan to that.
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If we get N'Zog and allow Albrighton an extended run we'll be no worse off, plus the emerging talent of Delph, the enigma that is Makoun, maybe we'll have Parker pulling the strings, the possibility of Gabby and Bent forming a relationship up front....
Yeah, you're right, it's all shit, might as well give up now.
Stop being so, so... positive will you. EVERYTHING is SHIT. You hear?
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If we get N'Zog and allow Albrighton an extended run we'll be no worse off, plus the emerging talent of Delph, the enigma that is Makoun, maybe we'll have Parker pulling the strings, the possibility of Gabby and Bent forming a relationship up front....
Yeah, you're right, it's all shit, might as well give up now.
If ... maybe ... possibility
Yeah you're right, it's nailed on, might as well hand us the trophies now.
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If we get N'Zog and allow Albrighton an extended run we'll be no worse off, plus the emerging talent of Delph, the enigma that is Makoun, maybe we'll have Parker pulling the strings, the possibility of Gabby and Bent forming a relationship up front....
Yeah, you're right, it's all shit, might as well give up now.
If ... maybe ... possibility
Yeah you're right, it's nailed on, might as well hand us the trophies now.
I would rather be if...maybe...possibly we'll do well, than if...maybe...possibly we're fucked.
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I would rather be if...maybe...possibly we'll do well, than if...maybe...possibly we're fucked.
If you interpret my opinion as "we're fucked" then you've misinterpreted it.
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And if you interpret my optimism as "might as well hand us the trophies now." so have you.
I'm just saying that I'd rather look forward to the season with some hope rather than giving up now and whining about how shit everything is all the fucking time.
Not saying that you do this, but you know, it's the impression you and your fellow miserablists give.
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Considering that we walk into the season with a manager that wins trophies and relegates his team in the same season, and with numerous players that inexplicably alternate between impressive and shocking performances, I can understand both the optimists and pessimists.
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Perhaps I should have said 'I generally agree with him and I'm grateful that he keeps posting about this stuff and putting up with the brick-bats from his detractors because they'd have tired me out by now'.
I think it's more to do with you age, Grandad. (winky)
I think it's a combination of my age and having a stunning young wife. Had a bit of a rest recently though as she is almost permanently up the duff.(winky).
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Considering that we walk into the season with a manager that wins trophies and relegates his team in the same season, and with numerous players that inexplicably alternate between impressive and shocking performances, I can understand both the optimists and pessimists.
As I switch between optimism and pessimism on a daily basis at the moment, I'm certainly with you there.
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Considering that we walk into the season with a manager that wins trophies and relegates his team in the same season, and with numerous players that inexplicably alternate between impressive and shocking performances, I can understand both the optimists and pessimists.
I think the optimists are cautious optimists that would rather wait and see what transpires.
The pessmists are just pessimists that have essentially given up on the season, or if they haven't yet, they are very close. Mainly because of the manager we've hired, concentrating on just the negative elements of record, and on the players we've sold, without at least waiting to see if we buy anyone. It would be an achievement if they could say their glasses were half empty. It's much lower than that.
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Considering that we walk into the season with a manager that wins trophies and relegates his team in the same season, and with numerous players that inexplicably alternate between impressive and shocking performances, I can understand both the optimists and pessimists.
I think the optimists are cautious optimists that would rather wait and see what transpires.
The pessmists are just pessimists that have essentially given up on the season, or if they haven't yet, they are very close. Mainly because of the manager we've hired, concentrating on just the negative elements of record, and on the players we've sold, without at least waiting to see if we buy anyone. It would be an achievement if they could say their glasses were half empty. It's much lower than that.
I think the appointment of McLeish is the main reason for pessimism, and that the sales of Young and Downing have merely added to that. While Houllier's appointment was hardly met by universal approval, it was accompanied by a rationale that we were still aiming for success, not through (big) investment, but by talent development and clever bargain-shopping abroad. However, to many, the appointment of McLeish has signaled that we are now longer trying to be successful, but have resigned ourselves to make up the numbers.
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Considering that we walk into the season with a manager that wins trophies and relegates his team in the same season, and with numerous players that inexplicably alternate between impressive and shocking performances, I can understand both the optimists and pessimists.
I think the optimists are cautious optimists that would rather wait and see what transpires.
The pessmists are just pessimists that have essentially given up on the season, or if they haven't yet, they are very close. Mainly because of the manager we've hired, concentrating on just the negative elements of record, and on the players we've sold, without at least waiting to see if we buy anyone. It would be an achievement if they could say their glasses were half empty. It's much lower than that.
I used to be indecisive but now I am not so sure .................
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I am not optomistic about the season ahead, but maybe just maybe a few decent signings and a decent start we might just have something to build on. I would not have chosen Mcleish purely because of the negative football he plays, he might surprise us. I hope the decision by RL signals his intent to rebuild the foundations of the squad that will progress over the next couple of seasons.
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I think the optimists are cautious optimists that would rather wait and see what transpires.
Pay no attention to the saccharine ramblings of those who would proclaim a nuclear attack on Villa Park to be a welcome opportunity to rebuild.
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I think the optimists are cautious optimists that would rather wait and see what transpires.
Pay no attention to the saccharine ramblings of those who would proclaim a nuclear attack on Villa Park to be a welcome opportunity to rebuild.
Wouldn't it be though?
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Maybe I should be adding a winky thing.
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Considering that we walk into the season with a manager that wins trophies and relegates his team in the same season, and with numerous players that inexplicably alternate between impressive and shocking performances, I can understand both the optimists and pessimists.
I think the optimists are cautious optimists that would rather wait and see what transpires.
What has transpired is that we have appointed Alex McLeish, and sold Young and Downing.
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Considering that we walk into the season with a manager that wins trophies and relegates his team in the same season, and with numerous players that inexplicably alternate between impressive and shocking performances, I can understand both the optimists and pessimists.
I think the optimists are cautious optimists that would rather wait and see what transpires.
What has transpired is that we have appointed Alex McLeish, and sold Young and Downing.
which is where you've thrown your hands up in the air and started screaming like a girl that the sky is falling in. The "see what transpires" bit refers to the rest of the transfer window and the season ahead. Some of us haven't given up yet. You've made it quite clear that you have.
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Considering that we walk into the season with a manager that wins trophies and relegates his team in the same season, and with numerous players that inexplicably alternate between impressive and shocking performances, I can understand both the optimists and pessimists.
I think the optimists are cautious optimists that would rather wait and see what transpires.
What has transpired is that we have appointed Alex McLeish, and sold Young and Downing.
which is where you've thrown your hands up in the air and started screaming like a girl that the sky is falling in. The "see what transpires" bit refers to the rest of the transfer window and the season ahead. Some of us haven't given up yet. You've made it quite clear that you have.
My understanding is that Risso actually goes to games, and is genuinely concerned about recent events at Villa Park,so what are the "screaming like a girl " comments about?
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jesus wept 14 pages of this?
the op was right
we're a selling club
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Considering that we walk into the season with a manager that wins trophies and relegates his team in the same season, and with numerous players that inexplicably alternate between impressive and shocking performances, I can understand both the optimists and pessimists.
I think the optimists are cautious optimists that would rather wait and see what transpires.
What has transpired is that we have appointed Alex McLeish, and sold Young and Downing.
which is where you've thrown your hands up in the air and started screaming like a girl that the sky is falling in. The "see what transpires" bit refers to the rest of the transfer window and the season ahead. Some of us haven't given up yet. You've made it quite clear that you have.
My understanding is that Risso actually goes to games, and is genuinely concerned about recent events at Villa Park,so what are the "screaming like a girl " comments about?
Is that a Sky Sports "understands" or a real understands? And what difference does it make whether he goes to games or not? Oh, hold on. This is another "he's a better fan than me " type post isn't it? Sorry, you're right us folk who live further away should sit at the back of the bus and keep quiet - right?
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Considering that we walk into the season with a manager that wins trophies and relegates his team in the same season, and with numerous players that inexplicably alternate between impressive and shocking performances, I can understand both the optimists and pessimists.
I think the optimists are cautious optimists that would rather wait and see what transpires.
What has transpired is that we have appointed Alex McLeish, and sold Young and Downing.
which is where you've thrown your hands up in the air and started screaming like a girl that the sky is falling in. The "see what transpires" bit refers to the rest of the transfer window and the season ahead. Some of us haven't given up yet. You've made it quite clear that you have.
My understanding is that Risso actually goes to games, and is genuinely concerned about recent events at Villa Park,so what are the "screaming like a girl " comments about?
Is that a Sky Sports "understands" or a real understands? And what difference does it make whether he goes to games or not? Oh, hold on. This is another "he's a better fan than me " type post isn't it? Sorry, you're right us folk who live further away should sit at the back of the bus and keep quiet - right?
Don't worry TV, I don't live near enough to get to very many games at all. The "screaming like a girl" comment was unnecessary though, you take exception when people make similar comments to you so how about showing a bit of respect eh?
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To me, some of the more negative posts here are the equivalent of going to the game and if we go 1-0 down after a few minutes deciding the game is over and sitting there with a shitty look on their face. I suppose in that analogy Mcleish is like not agreeing with the team selection in the first place and Ash and Downing is more like going 2-0 down, but the fact remains there is still a long way to go.
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To me, some of the more negative posts here are the equivalent of going to the game and if we go 1-0 down after a few minutes deciding the game is over and sitting there with a shitty look on their face. I suppose in that analogy Mcleish is like not agreeing with the team selection in the first place and Ash and Downing is more like going 2-0 down, but the fact remains there is still a long way to go.
It isn't just this summer though John, I haven't agreed with the direction the club has been taking under Lerner for ages.
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To me, some of the more negative posts here are the equivalent of going to the game and if we go 1-0 down after a few minutes deciding the game is over and sitting there with a shitty look on their face. I suppose in that analogy Mcleish is like not agreeing with the team selection in the first place and Ash and Downing is more like going 2-0 down, but the fact remains there is still a long way to go.
It isn't just this summer though John, I haven't agreed with the direction the club has been taking under Lerner for ages.
I had my doubts, and posted them on here, last summer when Milner left, we didn't buy, and MON walked over some financial issue or other. As far as I'm concerned, Randy answered all those doubts with a big Darren Bent shaped salp to my face in January.
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To me, some of the more negative posts here are the equivalent of going to the game and if we go 1-0 down after a few minutes deciding the game is over and sitting there with a shitty look on their face. I suppose in that analogy Mcleish is like not agreeing with the team selection in the first place and Ash and Downing is more like going 2-0 down, but the fact remains there is still a long way to go.
It isn't just this summer though John, I haven't agreed with the direction the club has been taking under Lerner for ages.
I had my doubts, and posted them on here, last summer when Milner left, we didn't buy, and MON walked over some financial issue or other. As far as I'm concerned, Randy answered all those doubts with a big Darren Bent shaped salp to my face in January.
Sorry, but I'm convinced that was purely made to ensure we didn't get relegated, as we would have been had we not bought him. There has never been any suggestion of a transfer of that magnitude either before or since. Why didn't we buy a player like that when we got Heskey that January?
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Sorry, but I'm convinced that was purely made to ensure we didn't get relegated, as we would have been had we not bought him. There has never been any suggestion of a transfer of that magnitude either before or since. Why didn't we buy a player like that when we got Heskey that January?
|Could be any number of reasons - availability, funds at that time following a big summer spend, or maybe Martin just picked the wrong guy. And wasn't it later revealed we bid for Zaki, who would have been circa £10m?
We also heard rumours of a summer signing that would out do the Bent one, so there has at least been a suggestion, but I'm guessing that was a Houllier thing ad that deal, if true, died when he left. But it doesn't have to be £18m England strikers all the time. Buying the likes of Parker and N'Zogbia, whose total fee would be around the same as Bent's, could have a similar impact. N'Zogbia maybe just in covering up for the loss of Ash and Downing, but we've needed a midfielder like Parker ever since Milner left, so that's as big a hole in our squad as a striker like Bent was.
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Sorry, but I'm convinced that was purely made to ensure we didn't get relegated, as we would have been had we not bought him. There has never been any suggestion of a transfer of that magnitude either before or since. Why didn't we buy a player like that when we got Heskey that January?
|Could be any number of reasons - availability, funds at that time following a big summer spend, or maybe Martin just picked the wrong guy. And wasn't it later revealed we bid for Zaki, who would have been circa £10m?
We also heard rumours of a summer signing that would out do the Bent one, so there has at least been a suggestion, but I'm guessing that was a Houllier thing ad that deal, if true, died when he left. But it doesn't have to be £18m England strikers all the time. Buying the likes of Parker and N'Zogbia, whose total fee would be around the same as Bent's, could have a similar impact. N'Zogbia maybe just in covering up for the loss of Ash and Downing, but we've needed a midfielder like Parker ever since Milner left, so that's as big a hole in our squad as a striker like Bent was.
I'd like to believe that we were in for Zaki and that the rumours of a big summer signing were true but these stories mean absolutely nothing, I'll still base my opinion on what I see happening. As the General said, judge us on actions not on newspaper rumours.
We have replaced Carew (who's record up till the start of last season was far better than most give him credit for), we haven't yet replaced Milner, Young and Downing, three of the very best midfielder players in the league.
N'Zogbia or Parker are decent players but they are the type of signings that a bottom to mid-table manager would sign to improve a bottom to mid-table team. We're an awful long way from improving on the team we had at the start of last summer.
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Parker was the football writers player of the year last season and widely considered to have had an excellent season, and N'Zogbia did very well in a poor side
If they improve us as much as Ashley Young (who surely fell under the same description when we signed him), I'll be happy.
re Risso's point about the motives for signing Bent. Maybe he was signed to ensure we didn't get relegated, but then again, so what? We still bought him. Lots of chairmen would have poked around for a cheaper striker in an attempt to get goals.
There is plenty the club have fucked up over the last year or so. In fact, it seems to have been a near constant stream of amateurishness and disorganisation, but it is a bit harsh, in my opinion, to start dissecting the motives behind signing Bent in an attempt to move that from the "positives" column.
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Agreed, Paulie.
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Good post Paulie.
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We're competing with Spurs and Chelsea for Parker who has recently established himself in the England setup so you're very much underestimating his standing.
N'Zogbia is a player with a bit to prove I think but has the potential to be very good.
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In the time I've been following Villa we have generally strengthened the team by signing the stars of relegated and almost-relegated teams. Roughly speaking, these signings have improved the team more often than not.
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I get involved in more than enough daft arguments on here. I'm not going to get involved in an argument about whether Parker and N'Zogbia are an improvement on Milner, Young and Downing.
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I get involved in more than enough daft arguments on here. I'm not going to get involved in an argument about whether Parker and N'Zogbia are an improvement on Milner, Young and Downing.
Maybe they aren't, but they're an improvement on what we've currently got.
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I get involved in more than enough daft arguments on here. I'm not going to get involved in an argument about whether Parker and N'Zogbia are an improvement on Milner, Young and Downing.
That's a different point to the one you made earlier, though, which was about the level of teams that would be interested in them.
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Yes, we are a selling club, like Manchester United were a couple of seasons ago when they had to release Ronaldo and Tevez against their will. Arsenal and Spurs will also be selling clubs very shortly when Nasri, Fabregas and Modric get their way. Even Manchester City can't hold onto Tevez.
The big players are in charge and do what they want to do, contract or no contract.
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Yes, we are a selling club, like Manchester United were a couple of seasons ago when they had to release Ronaldo and Tevez against their will. Arsenal and Spurs will also be selling clubs very shortly when Nasri, Fabregas and Modric get their way. Even Manchester City can't hold onto Tevez.
The big players are in charge and do what they want to do, contract or no contract.
I've read numerous comments like these lately, and they conveniently ignore that Arsenal have kept Fabregas for two season despite him wanting out; that Man Utd managed to keep Vidic and Rooney despite them looking for moves at a point in time; that Modric's contract runs out in 2016 and Spurs have rejected his transfer request. Yes, these clubs have sold and may have to sell players they would have liked to keep, but they're a long way from emulating Villa.
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Yes, we are a selling club, like Manchester United were a couple of seasons ago when they had to release Ronaldo and Tevez against their will. Arsenal and Spurs will also be selling clubs very shortly when Nasri, Fabregas and Modric get their way. Even Manchester City can't hold onto Tevez.
The big players are in charge and do what they want to do, contract or no contract.
I've read numerous comments like these lately, and they conveniently ignore that Arsenal have kept Fabregas for two season despite him wanting out; that Man Utd managed to keep Vidic and Rooney despite them looking for moves at a point in time; that Modric's contract runs out in 2016 and Spurs have rejected his transfer request. Yes, these clubs have sold and may have to sell players they would have liked to keep, but they're a long way from emulating Villa.
Nor have those clubs sold four of their best players in two years. As they've all played Champions League football as well, it doesn't seem to have hurt them too much.
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I get involved in more than enough daft arguments on here. I'm not going to get involved in an argument about whether Parker and N'Zogbia are an improvement on Milner, Young and Downing.
That's a different point to the one you made earlier, though, which was about the level of teams that would be interested in them.
I'm willing to bet that neither Spurs or Chelsea will buy Parker. I can just about see the possibility that one of them would take him on loan to cover a temporary gap in their squad.
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Yes, we are a selling club, like Manchester United were a couple of seasons ago when they had to release Ronaldo and Tevez against their will. Arsenal and Spurs will also be selling clubs very shortly when Nasri, Fabregas and Modric get their way. Even Manchester City can't hold onto Tevez.
The big players are in charge and do what they want to do, contract or no contract.
I've read numerous comments like these lately, and they conveniently ignore that Arsenal have kept Fabregas for two season despite him wanting out; that Man Utd managed to keep Vidic and Rooney despite them looking for moves at a point in time; that Modric's contract runs out in 2016 and Spurs have rejected his transfer request. Yes, these clubs have sold and may have to sell players they would have liked to keep, but they're a long way from emulating Villa.
They're clubs higher up the food chain than us so there are fewer predators but in the end players and the richer teams teams almost always get their way. Spurs might hold onto Modric this year but unless they challenge for the title he'll be off next year as, in all probability, will Bale.
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I get involved in more than enough daft arguments on here. I'm not going to get involved in an argument about whether Parker and N'Zogbia are an improvement on Milner, Young and Downing.
That's a different point to the one you made earlier, though, which was about the level of teams that would be interested in them.
I'm willing to bet that neither Spurs or Chelsea will buy Parker. I can just about see the possibility that one of them would take him on loan to cover a temporary gap in their squad.
Redknapp has already tried to buy him once.
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I get involved in more than enough daft arguments on here. I'm not going to get involved in an argument about whether Parker and N'Zogbia are an improvement on Milner, Young and Downing.
That's a different point to the one you made earlier, though, which was about the level of teams that would be interested in them.
I'm willing to bet that neither Spurs or Chelsea will buy Parker. I can just about see the possibility that one of them would take him on loan to cover a temporary gap in their squad.
Redknapp has already tried to buy him once.
Redknapp has reportedly tried to buy every player that has ever set foot in the centre-circle. With the amount he has spent on midfielders it is hard to imagine that he couldn't have bought him before now if he had really wanted to.
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I get involved in more than enough daft arguments on here. I'm not going to get involved in an argument about whether Parker and N'Zogbia are an improvement on Milner, Young and Downing.
Just as well, as nobody said they were.
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Yes, we are a selling club, like Manchester United were a couple of seasons ago when they had to release Ronaldo and Tevez against their will. Arsenal and Spurs will also be selling clubs very shortly when Nasri, Fabregas and Modric get their way. Even Manchester City can't hold onto Tevez.
The big players are in charge and do what they want to do, contract or no contract.
I've read numerous comments like these lately, and they conveniently ignore that Arsenal have kept Fabregas for two season despite him wanting out; that Man Utd managed to keep Vidic and Rooney despite them looking for moves at a point in time; that Modric's contract runs out in 2016 and Spurs have rejected his transfer request. Yes, these clubs have sold and may have to sell players they would have liked to keep, but they're a long way from emulating Villa.
They're clubs higher up the food chain than us so there are fewer predators but in the end players and the richer teams teams almost always get their way. Spurs might hold onto Modric this year but unless they challenge for the title he'll be off next year as, in all probability, will Bale.
They're higher up in the food chain, but they also have more players that the richer teams may be interested in. I'm not claiming that Arsenal and Spurs will manage to keep their stars, but I've certainly got the impression that they're fighting harder to keep their top players than we do.
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I get involved in more than enough daft arguments on here. I'm not going to get involved in an argument about whether Parker and N'Zogbia are an improvement on Milner, Young and Downing.
That's a different point to the one you made earlier, though, which was about the level of teams that would be interested in them.
I'm willing to bet that neither Spurs or Chelsea will buy Parker. I can just about see the possibility that one of them would take him on loan to cover a temporary gap in their squad.
Redknapp has already tried to buy him once.
Redknapp has reportedly tried to buy every player that has ever set foot in the centre-circle. With the amount he has spent on midfielders it is hard to imagine that he couldn't have bought him before now if he had really wanted to.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/west-ham/8287430/Tottenham-offer-West-Ham-Robbie-Keane-and-2-million-for-Scott-Parker.html
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I've read numerous comments like these lately, and they conveniently ignore that Arsenal have kept Fabregas for two season despite him wanting out; that Man Utd managed to keep Vidic and Rooney despite them looking for moves at a point in time; that Modric's contract runs out in 2016 and Spurs have rejected his transfer request. Yes, these clubs have sold and may have to sell players they would have liked to keep, but they're a long way from emulating Villa.
Very different stories and scenarios when you consider all the players you mention at the other clubs have lengthy contracts as opposed to AY and SD. Lets see how the Modric saga pans out now that he has reportedly actually handed in a transfer request to test Spurs resolve (SSN sources).
Players and agents have far too much power these days unfortunately. We're no more a selling club than any other club, and no more a buying club than any other club (excluding Man Citeh!). The transfer market is used to buy and sell players...using it to your advantage is a massive part of football and football as a business.
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I get involved in more than enough daft arguments on here. I'm not going to get involved in an argument about whether Parker and N'Zogbia are an improvement on Milner, Young and Downing.
That's a different point to the one you made earlier, though, which was about the level of teams that would be interested in them.
I'm willing to bet that neither Spurs or Chelsea will buy Parker. I can just about see the possibility that one of them would take him on loan to cover a temporary gap in their squad.
Redknapp has already tried to buy him once.
Redknapp has reportedly tried to buy every player that has ever set foot in the centre-circle. With the amount he has spent on midfielders it is hard to imagine that he couldn't have bought him before now if he had really wanted to.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/west-ham/8287430/Tottenham-offer-West-Ham-Robbie-Keane-and-2-million-for-Scott-Parker.html
I think that story falls some way short of the "definitive proof" test.
I do though like the idea of Harry agreeing to loan Keane to West Ham and then suddenly saying "I'll tell you what, you keep 'im and I'll take Scotty Parker of your hands. I'll even throw in a few quid to help with Robbie's additional wages".
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All I can say on all this is that for a long time Villadawg was telling us the brakes were being put on spending, 99% of us doubted him.
Turns out he was spot on.
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All I can say on all this is that for a long time Villadawg was telling us the brakes were being put on spending, 99% of us doubted him.
Turns out he was spot on.
Even ignoring the amounts spent by ManUre, Liverpool and Sunderland so far? - and before our little splurge (hopefully next week) on 3-4 players? and Citeh's anticipated pitch for Modric and Aguerro? Hmmm.
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All I can say on all this is that for a long time Villadawg was telling us the brakes were being put on spending, 99% of us doubted him.
Turns out he was spot on.
Why? Just because we havent done any business in the first couple of weeks after appointing a new manager in which we've settled with his previous club, allowing manager to assess squad and identify transfer targets, and generated additional revenue for new players? Will we still be putting the brakes on if we spend over £20m in the next couple of weeks?
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All I can say on all this is that for a long time Villadawg was telling us the brakes were being put on spending, 99% of us doubted him.
Turns out he was spot on.
Even ignoring the amounts spent by ManUre, Liverpool and Sunderland so far? - and before our little splurge (hopefully next week) on 3-4 players? and Citeh's anticipated pitch for Modric and Aguerro? Hmmm.
I think Fletch is referring to when Lerner 'blocked' the signings of 30 year old Robbie Keane for a fee rumoured to be £12m and £9m Aiden McGready. It was the first time Randy said no to MON but in hindsight you can fully understand why, you just need to see how much we were paying players that never got used, some we are still unable to get off the wage bill.
You have to ask yourself was Lerner right to put the brakes on spending until we got our house in order or should he have just carried on spending regardless? Whatever to think, we're still in a mess after 5 years of poor financial management of player aquisitions.
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I still think there is a big difference between managing the business responsibly and a hardline to the manager "you must sell players before you can buy anyone".
Things clearly got out of hand and now we have to get the place sorted again. They made mistakes in allowing MON too much rope, but then again I don't see MON wanting it any other way. And with such a popular appointment it would have been dangerous on the boards part to confront on his dealings even in hindsight they probably should have.
McLeish will be allowed to spend. He didn't have to sell Downing, but the player made the situation unmanageable. I don't think net spend is the only we should look at how we operate our business from now on. I'd rather we did things a bit smarter and with the use of good scouts find gems out there, alongside our own academy and supported by one or two very good signings that all play a part in our success. I don't think anyone wants to see ever again 30-40 million of players sitting on the bench contributing nothing at all.
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I do though like the idea of Harry agreeing to loan Keane to West Ham and then suddenly saying "I'll tell you what, you keep 'im and I'll take Scotty Parker of your hands. I'll even throw in a few quid to help with Robbie's additional wages
".
Although that's the opposite way round to how the story is presented. What was that you were saying about facts. ;-)
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and before our little splurge (hopefully next week) on 3-4 players?
Please bear in mind that any 'little splurge' will still not amount to what we've received from Ashley, Weasel and Cuellar.
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Will we still be putting the brakes on if we spend over £20m in the next couple of weeks?
How does that compare to the near £40m we bring in?
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All I can say on all this is that for a long time Villadawg was telling us the brakes were being put on spending, 99% of us doubted him.
Turns out he was spot on.
Even ignoring the amounts spent by ManUre, Liverpool and Sunderland so far? - and before our little splurge (hopefully next week) on 3-4 players? and Citeh's anticipated pitch for Modric and Aguerro? Hmmm.
I think Fletch is referring to when Lerner 'blocked' the signings of 30 year old Robbie Keane for a fee rumoured to be £12m and £9m Aiden McGready. It was the first time Randy said no to MON but in hindsight you can fully understand why, you just need to see how much we were paying players that never got used, some we are still unable to get off the wage bill.
Well it's not true about McGeady and Keane is it?
I was the first one to put that info on here and every man and his dog refused to believe it.
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Yet we paid out good money in January for Bent and Makoun. Lets just see how things go without jumping to conclusions.
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From what I have been told Randy will continue investing into the club. Granted, it remains to be seen so far this summer.
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From what I have been told Randy will continue investing into the club. Granted, It remains to be seen so far this summer.
Well you never know.
I've been told that Megan Fox is going to give me a blow job so powerful that she'll be able to smoke a cigarette sticking out of my arse, so we'll see.
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Yes, i would say if we only spend the Downing money, we can safely say that we are putting and end to the spending. It would amount to a profit of around £13m in the last 4 windows, or £7m if we end up paying £24m for Bent.
I think it would mean approximately £75m spent in 6 years (assuming we don't spend in Jan also, or £81m relating again to Bent. Unsurprisingly, this leaves us with a pretty mediocre side, considering we were a poor side at the start of it.
As it stands today of course, those figures are actually less £20m, we are assuming we will have the Downing money.
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I do though like the idea of Harry agreeing to loan Keane to West Ham and then suddenly saying "I'll tell you what, you keep 'im and I'll take Scotty Parker of your hands. I'll even throw in a few quid to help with Robbie's additional wages
".
Although that's the opposite way round to how the story is presented. What was that you were saying about facts. ;-)
You've lost me.
"West Ham United’s attempts to sign Robbie Keane took another twist on Thursday when Tottenham Hotspur offered the striker plus £2 million in return for Scott Parker.
The bid was flatly rejected by West Ham but it opened the way for negotiations to continue over Keane and there were fresh hopes on Thursday evening that a deal could finally be struck.
West Ham have been chasing Keane throughout the January transfer window and had hoped that having ceded to Tottenham's demands of a £1 million loan fee plus a permanent £6 million transfer deal in the summer should they avoid relegation, the move would go ahead.
However it is understood that Spurs responded by asking for a permanent deal now for Keane even though he is unlikely to figure in their team for the rest of the season having fallen out of favour. He might not even make their squad as things stand. "
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From what I have been told Randy will continue investing into the club. Granted, It remains to be seen so far this summer.
Well you never know.
I've been told that Megan Fox is going to give me a blow job so powerful that she'll be able to smoke a cigarette sticking out of my arse, so we'll see.
Ouch. In all seriousness, it would be wise to wait until September 1st.
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From what I have been told Randy will continue investing into the club. Granted, It remains to be seen so far this summer.
Well you never know.
I've been told that Megan Fox is going to give me a blow job so powerful that she'll be able to smoke a cigarette sticking out of my arse, so we'll see.
Ouch. In all seriousness, it would be wise to wait until September 1st.
"From what I have been told" my arse. Who's told you then?
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From what I have been told Randy will continue investing into the club. Granted, It remains to be seen so far this summer.
Well you never know.
I've been told that Megan Fox is going to give me a blow job so powerful that she'll be able to smoke a cigarette sticking out of my arse, so we'll see.
The smoke wont have far to travel though.
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From what I have been told Randy will continue investing into the club. Granted, It remains to be seen so far this summer.
Well you never know.
I've been told that Megan Fox is going to give me a blow job so powerful that she'll be able to smoke a cigarette sticking out of my arse, so we'll see.
Ouch. In all seriousness, it would be wise to wait until September 1st.
"From what I have been told" my arse. Who's told you then?
PM me.
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From what I have been told Randy will continue investing into the club. Granted, It remains to be seen so far this summer.
Well you never know.
I've been told that Megan Fox is going to give me a blow job so powerful that she'll be able to smoke a cigarette sticking out of my arse, so we'll see.
Ouch. In all seriousness, it would be wise to wait until September 1st.
"From what I have been told" my arse. Who's told you then?
PM me.
I've been told the same.
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So we have spent a lot of money for some time now each year and we will spend a fair few bob this summer. So are we a selling club or a buying club or just a club constantly changing through the years. Players come and go whoever you support.
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2 million for Carlos ::)
but dont worry, we still arent a selling club ffs
there is still people on here posting, that if we are letting Carlos go for 2 million "we must have dann lined up"
fuck me, and the english say we Irish are slow
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2 million for Carlos ::)
but dont worry, we still arent a selling club ffs
there is still people on here posting, that if we are letting Carlos go for 2 million "we must have dann lined up"
fuck me, and the english say the Irish are slow
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fuck me, and the english say we Irish are slow
Sadly, your posts do nothing to dispel the myth.
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fuck me, and the english say we Irish are slow
Sadly, your posts do nothing to dispel the myth.
well done Mark
a prize for you is on its way
so, we aren't a selling club then Mark?
everything okay with this post Mark? capitals, letters, comas, punctuation marks - all okay?
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I get involved in more than enough daft arguments on here. I'm not going to get involved in an argument about whether Parker and N'Zogbia are an improvement on Milner, Young and Downing.
Won't go into the latter comparison (though I do believe N'Zogbia could be far more effective than Downing) but Milner has really only ever had one season in centre midfield. Probably less than one, in fact. As it was around the time Downing returned to fitness that we tried it.
He was used left of a central three occasionally at Newcastle. And just off the forwards. But the fact is -despite plenty of promise- he was still learning the role with us at the time Citeh interviened. Them playing him wide left, wide right and sometimes not at all probably hasn't helped his development.
Parker has played the role all his life -and been effective enough at it to earn three big money moves (probably soon to be four) and England recognition in his favoured role despite the competition for the central slots. I certainly think in time Milner could be the far superior player -but only if he's actually allowed to play the role. At present he isn't.
A central midfield made up of both Parker and Milner -returning to us within the next 12 months- is obviously the best solution all round...
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If Parker has a chance of the loan deal to Chelsea i think he would be mad not to take it.
He's a London lad aswell. Either Chelsea or the Yids for me.
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If Parker has a chance of the loan deal to Chelsea i think he would be mad not to take it.
He's a London lad aswell. Either Chelsea or the Yids for me.
no offence mate but the only club being linked to BUYING parker was us
then we are being told that he can go on loan to someone for a season
this kind of tells me that AVFC are full of shit - we havent made a bid for the guy at all
but sure, we are all getting the jist of the summer
we are aren't we?
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Are you the Riddler?
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Are you the Riddler?
is it dawning on you? ::)
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Yes, we're getting he gist of the summer. It's going to be spent watching you make a tit of yourself on a daily basis.
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Yes, we're getting he gist of the summer. It's going to be spent watching you make a tit of yourself on a daily basis.
really?
go ahead chris ::)
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Maybe, just think he is a better player than when he was first at Chelsea and he had some good midfielders in front of him so it was a struggle to get in the team.
Now Lampard is knocking on and essien is out injured i think he will feature in a fair few games for Chelsea.
He'd be on big money aswell, dunno if we would pay it.
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2 million for Carlos ::)
but dont worry, we still arent a selling club ffs
there is still people on here posting, that if we are letting Carlos go for 2 million "we must have dann lined up"
fuck me, and the english say the Irish are slow
Why do you quote yourself? - are you schizophrenic or something? You and your mate can take a hike: CC is a bit player in all of this.
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Yes, we're getting he gist of the summer. It's going to be spent watching you make a tit of yourself on a daily basis.
really?
go ahead chris ::)
You're doing it all by yourself but lack the self awareness to realise.
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Maybe, just think he is a better player than when he was first at Chelsea and he had some good midfielders in front of him so it was a struggle to get in the team.
Now Lampard is knocking on and essien is out injured i think he will feature in a fair few games for Chelsea.
He'd be on big money aswell, dunno if we would pay it.
so then WE DIDNT MAKE A BID FOR HIM?
imagine 7 million in your bank account or letting him go on loan for a year in the hope that you get back in the premier league?
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Yes, we're getting he gist of the summer. It's going to be spent watching you make a tit of yourself on a daily basis.
really?
go ahead chris ::)
You're doing it all by yourself but lack the self awareness to realise.
ok i lack the self awareness
tell me then ::)
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madirishvillain - delighted at Aston Villa's transfer dealings this summer:
(http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/4646/6372view.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/69/6372view.jpg/)
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Yes, we're getting he gist of the summer. It's going to be spent watching you make a tit of yourself on a daily basis.
really?
go ahead chris ::)
You're doing it all by yourself but lack the self awareness to realise.
ok i lack the self awareness
tell me then ::)
The clue is in the phrase.
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Yes, we're getting he gist of the summer. It's going to be spent watching you make a tit of yourself on a daily basis.
really?
go ahead chris ::)
You're doing it all by yourself but lack the self awareness to realise.
ok i lack the self awareness
tell me then ::)
The clue is in the phrase.
is it? tell me im a thick Irish man
is it because chris said "Yes, we're getting he gist of the summer"
instead of him saying "Yes we're getting the gist of the summer"?
help me out ffs
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Perhaps you should take the rest of the evening off.
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You are thick and you are Irish but I don't think the two things are connected.
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i probably should Dave and Chris
and when you point it out, i most certainly will
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I see that other selling club, Man City, have agreed a price for Tevez.