The Price of Success

[Villa'Zawg]

It isn't a soap opera and it isn't about characters. It's a football club and it's about results.



"Save for Martin O’Neill’s first season at the club when he was cleaning up the mess from an overpriced side that had finished 16th the year before, Aston Villa has outperformed table position expectations their transfer expenditures should have set. If Villa’s ownership was indeed upset about the return-on-investment that they were getting under O’Neill, they need to take a look at the table above and realize how well he did given modern English football economics. Their squad and starting XI expenditures were in line with 9th to 11th place finishes, and O’Neill’s utilization rate was right at the average for the seasons in which he managed. O’Neill did just about as good as anyone could have asked of him, and the only man to do better with such meagre transfer expenditures is Arsene Wenger at Arsenal. The replacement of O’Neill with Houllier, who saw a lower utilization rate and average £XI, saw Villa regress this season but still outperform transfer expenditure expectations."

I don't understand why seemingly intelligent people rail against fact. I would have thought that the people who have been blathering on about Villa leaving expensive squad players on the bench would be interested to learn that it's a load of old bollocks.

[pauliewalnuts]

No, it isn't just about results. That's the crucial bit you can't seem to grasp. As much as you'd like it to be about spreadsheets and graphs, it isn't, and it never will be.

Until you can get past that, you'll never understand. That's abundantly clear.

[Villa'Zawg]

No, it isn't just about results. That's the crucial bit you can't seem to grasp. As much as you'd like it to be about spreadsheets and graphs, it isn't, and it never will be.

Until you can get past that, you'll never understand. That's abundantly clear.

what's it about if not results?

[pauliewalnuts]

No, it isn't just about results. That's the crucial bit you can't seem to grasp. As much as you'd like it to be about spreadsheets and graphs, it isn't, and it never will be.

Until you can get past that, you'll never understand. That's abundantly clear.

what's it about if not results?

It's also about entertainment.

That's why it's called "the beautiful game".

We've had this conversation before, how you'd be happy to play like John Beck era Cambridge United so long as the results were good, and I'd rather pull my teeth out one by one.

We can have the same discussion again if you want, but there's no need, really. You asked why people didn't "get it". The answer is because not everyone sees it so purely about results as you do. That's why.

[NeilH]

Whenever this debates ensues I always think back to John Gregory era Villa. There is no doubt that it was a reasonably successful period for us with some undoubted highs (and lows), but throughout his tenure the debate raged over the style of football we were playing. Sure we won games, but hardly with the panache that was apparent during the first Little season and under Big Ron. Therefore we were constantly divided about results over style. I’m sure if you look back into the archives of H&V you will find any number of threads debating the pluses and minuses of JG era Villa.

[not3bad]

Whenever this debates ensues I always think back to John Gregory era Villa. There is no doubt that it was a reasonably successful period for us with some undoubted highs (and lows), but throughout his tenure the debate raged over the style of football we were playing. Sure we won games, but hardly with the panache that was apparent during the first Little season and under Big Ron. Therefore we were constantly divided about results over style. I’m sure if you look back into the archives of H&V you will find any number of threads debating the pluses and minuses of JG era Villa.

One match burned into my memory is a 1-0 victory over Sunderland played during Gregory's last season in charge.  If there is one match that nearly made me lose the will to live it's that one.  A perfect illustration of how results should not be seen as the be all and end all.

[Villa'Zawg]

No, it isn't just about results. That's the crucial bit you can't seem to grasp. As much as you'd like it to be about spreadsheets and graphs, it isn't, and it never will be.

Until you can get past that, you'll never understand. That's abundantly clear.

what's it about if not results?

It's also about entertainment.

That's why it's called "the beautiful game".

We've had this conversation before, how you'd be happy to play like John Beck era Cambridge United so long as the results were good, and I'd rather pull my teeth out one by one.

We can have the same discussion again if you want, but there's no need, really. You asked why people didn't "get it". The answer is because not everyone sees it so purely about results as you do. That's why.

I'm not sure I have ever said I would be happy to watch Villa play like John Beck era Cambridge United but I recognise the point you’re trying to make.

What I have said or intended to say is that my interest first and foremost is in the sport in its truest sense, not some ephemeral notion of entertainment that can mean as many different things as there are different spectators.

I can assure you that I have left VP happier after the direst of our wins than our most exciting defeat. That’s how supporting my team affects me and that same win/lose result is the method by which almost all sports and sportsmen are measured for a very good reason.

None of which makes any difference to the veracity or value of the content in the OP article, unless what you’re advocating is that we ignore all the stats and facts about the game and simply sit back and wait for you to award marks for artistic merit and announce your Star of the Week awards.

[pauliewalnuts]

None of which makes any difference to the veracity or value of the content in the OP article, unless what you’re advocating is that we ignore all the stats and facts about the game and simply sit back and wait for you to award marks for artistic merit and announce your Star of the Week awards.

Keep your knickers on. You said you didn't understand why, I told you why.

I know we don't agree on it, there's zero point us going round the houses on that one, so we're going to have to agree to disagree.

[damon loves JT]

I think you need to agree to have a fight. That's the only way this is going to be settled.

I will be the referee, and will award marks for artistic merit, as well as winning

[Villa'Zawg]

I'm up for it as long as I get to spend more money on weaponry than Paulie.

[King of the Nørth]

 During MONs last season in charge I persuaded my armchair Villa fan mate to attend a couple of home games. Those 2 games we attended were the most dull and uninspiring games I have witnessed. I believe 1 game was when we played Fulham at home and the bit he got excited about was whenever Andy Johnson ran near our part of the ground he got abuse. Needless to say he hasnt attended many since. So I would say attractive football does have a major part to play. It would bring more stay at home Villa fans to the ground.

[pauliewalnuts]

 During MONs last season in charge I persuaded my armchair Villa fan mate to attend a couple of home games. Those 2 games we attended were the most dull and uninspiring games I have witnessed. I believe 1 game was when we played Fulham at home and the bit he got excited about was whenever Andy Johnson ran near our part of the ground he got abuse. Needless to say he hasnt attended many since. So I would say attractive football does have a major part to play. It would bring more stay at home Villa fans to the ground.

I reckon the most depressing game for ages was Sunderland at home last season. That pushed anything MON served up at home.

[TheSandman]

I go down for one game a season and I chose that one.

It says a lot about a match when Emile Heskey is the most skillful player on show.

[Villanation]

I go down for one game a season and I chose that one.

It says a lot about a match when Emile Heskey is the most skillful player on show.

I tell you what, if you where a woman that would be an offer i couldn't refuse

[pauliewalnuts]

I go down for one game a season and I chose that one.

It says a lot about a match when Emile Heskey is the most skillful player on show.

The worst thing was it was three days after that excellent performance at Stamford Bridge.

Like going out on the Saturday night and shagging a super model, then going out again to the same place on the Wednesday, buoyed by your recent success, and waking up next to that fat cruise ship singer out of Loose Women.