5% Villa- Oliver Holt Interview

[Greg N'Ash]

to be fair i think villadawg is probably near the truth with the budget theory, just massively over-estimating what was asked of him.  Any reasonable manager probably wouldn't worry too much about the board asking him to sell non-playing squad members like Davies, NRC etc.. to get the wage bill down but MON probably considered it a threat to his control

[Ian.]

to be fair i think villadawg is probably near the truth with the budget theory, just massively over-estimating what was asked of him.  Any reasonable manager probably wouldn't worry too much about the board asking him to sell non-playing squad members like Davies, NRC etc.. to get the wage bill down but MON probably considered it a threat to his control

Also I don't think he is the sort of fella to admit he had made expensive mistakes on Davies, Sidwell and co.

[brian green]

We shall get a much better idea of the true value of Martin O'Neill when he gets another job.   A clearer fix on the regard in which he is held by his peers and his contemporaries will be provided by which club employs him and what he does with that club.

In the meantime the lack of clubs rushing for his services gives a clue to his situation and his current reputation.

[Eigentor]

My best guess is that is was about timing once again: Unable to shift the deadwood, he once again wanted to sign players before selling. The board were unimpressed by his efforts to get rid of the likes of Beye and Sidwell and said no/delayed the issue. As the season came nearer, and the likelihood of another end of transfer window splurge diminished, MON decided to quit (possibly because the board had finally confirmed that he wouldn't be allowed to sign anyone before he had sold some of the deadwood).

Pure speculation, but there you go.

[Greg N'Ash]

My best guess is that is was about timing once again: Unable to shift the deadwood, he once again wanted to sign players before selling. The board were unimpressed by his efforts to get rid of the likes of Beye and Sidwell and said no/delayed the issue. As the season came nearer, and the likelihood of another end of transfer window splurge diminished, MON decided to quit (possibly because the board had finally confirmed that he wouldn't be allowed to sign anyone before he had sold some of the deadwood).

Pure speculation, but there you go.

I think thats a fair guess. I could imagine him forcing the issue if he was desperate to bring in a player especially when he could point to most of the milner money being there. We weren't exactly beating clubs off with a stick to buy his mistakes so i'd imagine he probably realised he wouldn't get his targets before the window closed.

[Villa'Zawg]

to be fair i think villadawg is probably near the truth with the budget theory, just massively over-estimating what was asked of him.  Any reasonable manager probably wouldn't worry too much about the board asking him to sell non-playing squad members like Davies, NRC etc.. to get the wage bill down but MON probably considered it a threat to his control

I pointed out there does appear to have been budget constraints, I didn't and don't argue that it was the reason he left.

There didn't seem to be any disagreement between the board and O'Neill that Curtis Davies, Luke Young, Nigel Reo-Coker, Steve Sidwell, Nicky Shorey and Habib Beye could leave last summer. I think it was made made public that they were for sale.

My understanding is that the the new CEO had taken over responsibility for conducting transfer business but wasn't able to get any business done.

[pauliewalnuts]

My understanding is that the the new CEO had taken over responsibility for conducting transfer business but wasn't able to get any business done.

"My understanding".

I thought you were all about the facts? You're no better than the rest of us.

[Greg N'Ash]

to be fair i think villadawg is probably near the truth with the budget theory, just massively over-estimating what was asked of him.  Any reasonable manager probably wouldn't worry too much about the board asking him to sell non-playing squad members like Davies, NRC etc.. to get the wage bill down but MON probably considered it a threat to his control

I pointed out there does appear to have been budget constraints, I didn't and don't argue that it was the reason he left.

There didn't seem to be any disagreement between the board and O'Neill that Curtis Davies, Luke Young, Nigel Reo-Coker, Steve Sidwell, Nicky Shorey and Habib Beye could leave last summer. I think it was made made public that they were for sale.

My understanding is that the the new CEO had taken over responsibility for conducting transfer business but wasn't able to get any business done.

hmmm. early august is hardly late by MON standards to conclude your transfer business so i'm not sure he'd be that worried


EDIT: and they'd obviously got Ireland done before he left bar dotting the 'i's and crossing the 't's

[Eigentor]

My understanding is that the the new CEO had taken over responsibility for conducting transfer business but wasn't able to get any business done.

I'm not sure if Faulkner was the source of inertia, as we were far more effective in flogging off our rejects under Houllier.

[Villa'Zawg]

My understanding is that the the new CEO had taken over responsibility for conducting transfer business but wasn't able to get any business done.

"My understanding".

I thought you were all about the facts? You're no better than the rest of us.

and I'd have gotten away with it if it wasn't for you pesky kids.   

[KevinGage]

I think the problem here is some of us have this idea (myth/image?) that he's an easy going honourable person so there must be a shocking reason why he left, but when you look at his real character and his actions elswhere you realise the only surprise is he lasted here so long. He's a hardnosed ambitious careerist prone to hissy fits who's walked out on 2 clubs and has threatened the same to most of the others. there's no 'smoking gun' to find imo, just loads of conspiracy theorists desperate to rehabilitate his image.

No, I have no illusions about MON being anything other than a self-serving careerist. Also, I believe he as manager had severe limitations and that he had taken us as far as he could. I shed no tears about his departure.

That view doesn't rule out that he had a legitimate beef with the board (though I struggle to think that it could be anything grave enough justifying the timing and manner of the departure). Whether it was about the wage bill or something else, I don't know, but all the pieces known don't add up.

I think you may have been closer with your earlier theory, a gradual erosion in interest and motivation for job, rather than a 'breaking point' issue.

There were a few digs at supporters around the time of the Wolves and Sunderland games at home as far back as March, before the wheels well and truly came off at Chelsea away. His attitude was generally dismissive, with a few 'you've never had it so good' type quips thrown in for good measure.

Then the links with Liverpool started, with talk that Kenny Dalglish was due to be approached by Hicks and Gillete to act as club ambassador, with a remit to also recommend potential replacements for Rafa. MON was believed to be his choice. Dalglish got the post in July, but the board opted for the less fractious Hodgson.

Perhaps MON was able to motor on and not rock the boat between April/July as he thought he'd soon be gone anyway. How could he fail with King Kenny in his corner? When he didn't actually get the gig and the realisation hit home that he might have to actually face the next season with us that's when the wage bill constraints and all the rest of it actually became real.

Soon after, he tried deals for McGeady and Keane. But with no outgoing movement except for Milner, the Sidwell deal to Fulham breaking down and NRC and Luke Young refusing moves, the wage bill issue loomed large.

Having to make do with players that he didn't really want around anymore (and who he had made that pretty clear to) and being expected to get something out of them, plus the condition of Dunne made a tough situation even more unappealing. Factor in the spending of Man Citeh and the general increase in competition across the league, and he perhaps felt a likely season of stagnation (or even regression) wouldn't be good for his image and future career prospects.

[Greg N'Ash]

Don't care what anyone says. I had it on good authority that dalglish wanted him and had talked to him, and then he was railroaded by the yanks and MON got left out in the cold. The comments of bannon seems to hold that up and i very much doubt it hadn't come to  the attention of Lerner and caused maybe a a re-appraisal of the sort of control they gave MON.

[Eigentor]

I still think that his waning interest and motivation for the job is the bigger picture. And that probably stemmed from no longer being allowed to do exactly what he wanted. I think your (KevinGage's) summary is quite close to the truth, but I'm not ruling out the possibility that MON was trying to circumvent the board's demands of lowering the wage bill (eg by arguing that he had to buy before he could sell for sporting reasons), and that the board was dodging these issues, adding to MON's frustration and perhaps delaying the inevitable outcome.

[KevinGage]

It's possible, certainly.

Perhaps he'd done similar the year previous (when we went over budget) and felt when push came to shove he'd get his own way again.

 Only difference being that the previous year the board may have still been of the opinion he was a genius, we were lucky to have him and whatever he required (outside of Man Citeh style requests, obv) they would endeavour to deliver. Even if they privately questioned the individual merits of lucrative deals for 31 year old reserve right backs and so forth.

FF 12 months and -whilst they may have still believed him to be the right man for the job- maybe they were more willing to face him down on deals that looked suspect, or bloated an already concerning wage bill.

[Greg N'Ash]

the worse thing about this thread is oliver holt could pop in and think we've been discussing him for 12 pages. the best thing is him finding out he barely got past page 1.