Mons tribunal hearing?

[TheSandman]

I'd agree it was in decline but then so is the current side. Good players have left and not been replaced and others have got past it.

I think the major difference now is we have some re-sale value on the players going.  Ash is the obvious one, but I think we'll get circa £3m each for Dunne and Warnock, whereas Laursen and Bouma we got nothing.  It's also a better squad right now as evidenced by the difference between Angel and Bent.  So we'll need less money spent to get to 6th again than we did in 2006.

But it's not exactly anyone's fault that Laursen had to retire and that Bouma suffered a bad injury and was released? Had neither of those things happened they would probably have fetched more money than Warnock and Dunne will in light of their being significantly better players. Indeed, the same may have gone for Mellberg had his contract been renewed earlier. We can't exactly blame O'Leary for these things. Though I'm quite happy to.

I do think that a lot of people are being quite unfair on the squad MoN inherited. It was not a 16th place team. The main factor in that was the incompetent jerk managing them. There was a nucleus of decent players and some solid premier league players in it who have had decent enough careers. 11th was about the level of it with a decent manager though to say it was capable of much higher is wrong.

[Concrete John]

My argument is not towards blaming anyone for Laursen's injury, but to point out that the squad, which you say was about right at 11th, then lost significant players for no income.  So what was the 11th best squad without 3 of it's 4 best players - 12th, 14th or lower?  That is therefore the 'starting point' we need judge MON's spending from and to get to 6th from there HAS to have significant investment.   

[Eigentor]

I remember O'Leary as a poor man's O'Neill. They had somewhat the same ideas and the same approach. In the first season he bought McCann and Sorensen, and we were suddenly more competitive. But he quickly lost interest when it appeared that Doug was unwilling to spend, and the lack of interest seemed to spread to the players, and after a while we weren't that competitive anymore. When he left, we appeared to be in free-fall. I don't see MON allowing the kind of decline that we witnessed under DOL, allthough one could argue is that some of the difference is that our problems were evident in DOL's last season, whereas MON was smart enough to stuff the skeletons in the cupboards to some degree.

[KevinGage]

Sorensen, Laursen, Mellberg, Bouma, Barry, Baros, Angel and quite a few promising youngsters already on the books

Sorry - can't agree with that.

If we're talking from an investment perspective, then you need to remove Laursen, Mellberg and Bouma, the best three players on that list, as they walked for nothing...

After three and two years respectively.

The point still remains, the core of the squad was in place to oversee a top half finish when MON joined. It was widely accepted in DOL's final season that we had underachieved with what we had -even though there were a few notable gaps in that side.

I deliberately described the conditions inherited as providing a springboard for a top 6-10 challenge, not that 6th (or higher) was virtually nailed on even without investment.

We needed investment, but MON wasn't starting from scratch -trying to turn a Hull, Ipswich or Blackpool into a top 6 side. I thought that would have been an easy enough concept to grasp.

When MON joined in 2006, the top 4 plus  Tottenham, Newcastle and Everton (just about) probably had a better calibre of player to call upon. No other sides did, and I'd include the likes of Bolton, Boro and Blackburn in that. Sides who all finished above us the season prior.

[Concrete John]

We needed investment, but MON wasn't starting from scratch -trying to turn a Hull, Ipswich or Blackpool into a top 6 side. I thought that would have been an easy enough concept to grasp.

I have no trouble grasping what you're saying, just agreeing with it.

The point at which you start means an inherent value to the squad, either as players you use or assets which you sell to buy your own players.  So no matter how good that squad was or wasn't, losing two key players to career ending injuries means you can't use them or get any money for them.  So when judging how much he's spent issue like that need to be factored in as we needed to spend to repalce them, thereby effectively standing still, before we were then able to add to what we have and transform into a top 6 side.  OK those things may have happened out of order (adding the likes of Ash and Carew before needing replacing Laursen), but would you not agree that the 2006 squad would have been poorer without the players lost for nothing?  And if so should we not then either take that weakened inherited squad as our 'true' starting point to judge where the post MON spending took us from and to?     

[KevinGage]

Sorry, why is this 'true' starting point halfway into his reign now?

Just sounds like more cack handed attempts to make excuses for the man.

[Concrete John]

Sorry, why is this 'true' starting point halfway into his reign now?

Just sounds like more cack handed attempts to make excuses for the man.

Nothing of the kind.

This whole debate started over his spending at the club.  That spending was then judged taking into acount the squad he inherited.  A squad which needed significant spending to stand still as it lost players for no income.

So it's a simple equation:-
11th best squad at the time (someone else's estimation and not mine, but I'll go with it) minus 3 key players plus net spend = 6th place.  If you think the end of that equation should have been better than 6th fair enough.       

[hartman_1982]

I see he is being touted for the Cardiff City job and Skybet have him as favourite. I thought he was a shoe in for the Man United job! (camp winky face)

[Rudy Can't Fail]

Chelsea are going to be well pissed off if they miss out on him.

[damon loves JT]

Perfect job for him, Cardiff. He can be bigger than the club and they will put up with it.

[KevinGage]

Apparently he really, really wanted the West Ham job. 

Not just at Christmas, but recently too.

Seems he's lowered his expectations quite a bit.

[cdbearsfan]

Whether you think he was a success on the pitch or not, a lot of Chairman will have noticed that he walked out on Villa and then was still trying to wrangle money out of the club ten months on. Doesn't look good and a lot of clubs will have marked his card.

[SteveN]

I though I heard on the radio this morning that he might be off to the Middle East. O'Leary's last job.

[Greg N'Ash]

I'm guessing his ego is having a problem coping with the fact he still can't get a job in the premier. 10 months and counting.....

[eastie]

nailed on for fulham if hughes goes to villa.