Villa man seen stumbling out of spanish bar prior to game.

[Greg N'Ash]

bottom line is we were going broke. Our last accounts before the takeover was something like a 6-8m loss in 6 months and Ellis desperately trying to sell land. Usually you don't keep a stand named after a chairman who nearly puts you in administration especially one who used to whitter on about how he was such a steady hand at the the tiller compared to the risdale's of this world. If RL hadn't turned up we wouldn't have this revisionism

You say we were going broke. Every director I've spoken to says the major reason why Randy bought the club was the healthy state of the accounts. I'll take their word over yours. 

We didn't have large amounts of debt but we were still broke. If you've got lots of bills coming in that you can't pay it doesn't really matter if you've got nothing in the bank or an overdraft in the red, you still won't be eating. At the time i seem to remember us pulling out of signing a player on loan it was so tight.

[lovejoy]

Not necessarily. You can increase your borrowings. I do struggle to recollect that Villa were on the verge of administration just before Randy took over.

[Greg N'Ash]

yeah you can borrow money but then you have debt. At the time, he was trying to sell off land so he didn't have to, probably because he was paying people like Lee Hendrie a fortune. This from the guy who made finanical acumen his major boast - the old "hey we may never win nowt but at least we're well run" mantra was starting to look a bit hollow.  The last accounts showed we were making serious losses, so that money had to be found from somewhere whether it was taking on debt, selling land or players - only difference between us and the likes of Leeds is RL came in at the start of the collapse rather than the end

[brian green]

If you think we muddled along with mediocrity when Ellis was in charge you should have been around pre Ellis when the club was variously a Victorian relic and an absentee owners' plaything.

Like many on here I have met Ellis and found him on the whole likable and compared with other entrepreneurs of his generation - of whom I also met and knew a few, from Emile Savundra to Jim Slater to Freddie Laker to Joe Kagan - straight dealing.   I found him a vain man but that is not uncommon with self made men who on the whole did more good for Villa than bad.   That in the process he did well for himself  goes with the principle that entrepreneurs make the world go round.   I do not subscribe to that but it is so embedded in the system, like Graham Taylor said in his match summary on Radio 5 last Saturday about losing players on international duty it is a fact of life, so live with it.

Doug Ellis is Doug Ellis.   He is part of Villa history.   Live with it.

[Greg N'Ash]

I'm not trying to erase him from history - if only that were possible, but this post RL revisionism of this cuddly benign ex-owner sticks in my throat somewhat. Its the same sort of guff you get from these people who look back on Thatchers time with fondness like its a an episode of Heartbeat. The best thing you can say about him is he sold the club to someone better - which is a pretty damming assessment really given the length of time he was in charge. Another season of him in charge and no money for players and we'd probably be well used to visiting Championship grounds by now.

[Villa'Zawg]

 gregnash: yeah you can borrow money but then you have debt. At the time, he was trying to sell off land so he didn't have to, probably because he was paying people like Lee Hendrie a fortune. This from the guy who made finanical acumen his major boast - the old "hey we may never win nowt but at least we're well run" mantra was starting to look a bit hollow.  The last accounts showed we were making serious losses, so that money had to be found from somewhere whether it was taking on debt, selling land or players - only difference between us and the likes of Leeds is RL came in at the start of the collapse rather than the end
-------------------

The land sale was a straightforward asset swap to enable the purchase of Petrov, whilst under offer from RAL.

If Doug hadn't sold the land he would either have had to refuse to finance the purchase of Petrov or restart the legal processes and due diligence on the sale, with the inevitable delays that would have incurred.

It was actually a classic example of Doug's ability to balance the interests of the business and the team.

[Greg N'Ash]

sounds like a classic example of his penny pinching to me

[brian green]

I do not know your age Greg but I would guess 40ish.   I sympathise with your smouldering anger towards HDE but in the 60s and 70s men like Doug were thicker than fleas on a dog's back.   Chancers, carpet baggers, opportunists were the order of the day.   This brave new breed now revered as entrepreneurial saviours of the nation were everywhere buying and selling everything usually with money they did not have.   Along came Thatcher and Greed Is Good and the genre was granted legitimacy.   Then came the internet and the big bad wolves in the forest disappeared into the shadows.

All I can say is that Doug Ellis is a lot better than most of his kind of his generation.

[JD]

Yeah,i should imagine that being chauffuer driven to every game,never paying for a ticket,sitting in the best seats in the house every week,and knowing he's made a massive profit on his original investment must be hard on him

Fuck his commitment,i reckon my 300 mile round trip to a home game outdoes that old scroat

Let's see you do it when you're 87.

Ahhh bless you.
Is it because he's 87 or because your the self appointed "voice"of villa fans that makes you post that

I used to travel from London every week as well sunshine, but I didn't make a point of it. Don't think I could manage it if I live to 87. Just let it go and stop being so bitter.

[Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air]

i reckon he got quite a few proviso's when he sold the club yes. Say what you like about the blose but they haven't got a Kumar stand or wolves a Bhatti stand. Embarassing.

What an utterly ridiculous analogy. If you were complaining about the Norman Smith or Normansell stand, you may have a point. Who were they ? The people overseeing our decline towards bankruptcy up until 1968.

I am not going to say everything Doug did was wonderful. Anybody spending as many years at the helm of a club our size is unlikely not to provoke debate, and I wanted him to stand down as much as anybody when the protests were occuring a few years back. In my opinion he stayed 5 years too long as chairman.


I think attitudes towards him depend very much on when you started watching Villa. Those of us who were around pre 1968 appreciate what he did for Villa. At that time there were no Russian oligarchs, far east businessmen or oil sheiks clamouring to pour millions into English football clubs. Or for that matter, multi millionaires from across the Atlantic. Funnily enough at the time a story did surface that Phil Woosnam out at Atlanta Chiefs was trying to get some people together to come in but it very quickly became apparent that it was a non starter.

Someone said earlier things may have been better or may have been worse if Doug hadnt have been there. Lets look at the possible worse scenario, because the reality back then is there were no other credible candidates to come in and save the club. There was a very real possibility Aston Villa could have gone out of business. Bankrupt, out of existence, no more.....I am not exaggerating here! As a result of that being allowed to happen, what you would probably have these days would be a club playing its football at Birchfield stadium in front of 8,000 people. A club run by a company under the name Aston Villa (1970) Limited.  There would have been no championship in 1981, no European Cup in 1982, no Withe, no Mortimer, No Saunders. Instead, we would have a memories section on H & V where we re-called Bryan Small our heroic captain who lead us to the Conference championship and back into the football league after we had worked our way back up the league  pyramid.

Now that would have been an embarrasing. An embarrassing  legacy to the name of William McGregor. A picture in a dusty corner of a supporters club house at the ground we lease at Alexander Stadium instead of a statue outside our Trinity Road stand.

[JD]

I'm not trying to erase him from history - if only that were possible, but this post RL revisionism of this cuddly benign ex-owner sticks in my throat somewhat. Its the same sort of guff you get from these people who look back on Thatchers time with fondness like its a an episode of Heartbeat. The best thing you can say about him is he sold the club to someone better - which is a pretty damming assessment really given the length of time he was in charge. Another season of him in charge and no money for players and we'd probably be well used to visiting Championship grounds by now.

Greg get over it, you don't like Doug and blame him for everything, we understand. You've got you point of view across, now give it a rest as you are a boring little p*%&k.
And if you abuse my Aunty Maggie again I am going to come round to your house with a pair of blunt wire cutters and cut your balls off (if you've got any), Smiley Face:) . 

[TimTheVillain]

I'll never forget the Coca Cola Cup Final 1994 - I was at Alton Towers with my kids and my Walkman !

Doug was being interviewed on Radio 5 before the game, very near the old Wembley.

There was a lot of background noise from Villa fans, singing etc.

Doug said ' anyway I'd better go, my fans are calling for me'.

Says it all for me !




 

[Risso]

I'm not trying to erase him from history - if only that were possible, but this post RL revisionism of this cuddly benign ex-owner sticks in my throat somewhat. Its the same sort of guff you get from these people who look back on Thatchers time with fondness like its a an episode of Heartbeat. The best thing you can say about him is he sold the club to someone better - which is a pretty damming assessment really given the length of time he was in charge. Another season of him in charge and no money for players and we'd probably be well used to visiting Championship grounds by now.

Greg get over it, you don't like Doug and blame him for everything, we understand. You've got you point of view across, now give it a rest as you are a boring little p*%&k.
 

You're the one who needs to give it a rest.  Less of that please.

[Risso]

Anyway, talking of land sales, Lerner has done the same sort of thing to pay off the management charge to the parent company.

[b23]

Villa man/woman/child seen stumbling ?

Could be any one of us.

I wouldnt wish it on anyone.