Everton v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread

[UsualSuspect]

I disagree. I think they're both poor sides and I think we'll beat both of them.

like all thse other poor sides we keep beating

Whether we beat them or not is down to us. The fact is Stoke are a poor side and Wigan are shite.

I have been hearing all season about the next winnable games and its like a bad tune stuck on a loop and the tape is running out, and we are down to the last 7 and we have won one of the last 7

precisely

magically we are going to win 3 games out of 7 when weve managed what 5 in 26?

[sfx412]

I am still dissapointed that we went from a winning position, to conceding 2 points.
I would expect that a decent manager would have been able to work out how to see the game off.

We came from a goal down away from home against a a side in winning form and all you can do is criticise a manager because they were given a dodgy penalty ?

We aren't in a good position true but again they gave a promising performance. It may not be enough in the long term but it was far better than the previous 2 results

[Concrete John]

Plenty of commitment yesterday, we just look very brittle when the pressure is on. None more so than Collins. Cuellar should be in the side in his place. He's not as good a header of the ball but his anticipation and nous would have been invaluable yesterday.

Collins looked like someone who has spun around on the spot twenty times and then tried to stand still as Osman ran at him for the goal. Really piss poor defending.

Agree.
Once again he played like somebody who simply doesn't give a shit.

I'd say he's playing like someone who is out of form/not as good as we thought rather than him not caring.

I have a theory about Collins and our defending in general.

Under the previous manager we tried to play on the break as we all know.  What that meant is that the midfield were quite deep and gave good protection to the back 4.  Teams tended to play infront of us and rarely did we get someone running at the defence as a midfielder was there to stop that run happening in the first place.  So normally they needed to play the ball into the box as opposed to run with it, which our big back 4 dealt with very well, hence our strong defence in 09/10.

The change in formation and the greater emphasis on us trying to control the game further up the pitch has meant we're getting more exposed at the back and this is highlighting some technical faults in the likes of Collins, where simply being big and strong isn't enough anymore. 

Normally this defensive frailty would be balanced out by us scoring more goals, but that simply hasn't been the case.  The solution is to either go back to playing the midfield deeper, which isn't going to happen under Gezza, or buy better defenders, which isn't going to happen until the summer.     

[stevo_st]

http://theexecutionersbong.wordpress.com/

Good summary of the game from an Everton fan, with some interesting statistics.

Whilst the game was an exciting one, the quality was quite poor in terms of passing. Villa had more of the ball in terms of passes made (413 v 344) but Everton had a better pass completion (64% v 59%) This was still our lowest pass completion figure of the season and the lowest amount of successful passes we have completed in a home game this season. Villa’s pass completion of 59% was the second lowest of our opponents this season, with only the route one Stoke having recorded a lower figure.

[dave.woodhall]

That's what I think, anyway:

www.thebirminghampress.com/2011/04/04/goodison-gaffes/

[VillaAlways]

That's what I think, anyway:

www.thebirminghampress.com/2011/04/04/goodison-gaffes/

Dave wrote :

Why was it yet again cheaper to buy two singles than a return, and first class to Lime Street cost less than standard? To the train manager on the way home – if the toilets not working is so rare, how come it’s happened on four of the last six times I’ve been travelling between Birmingham and Liverpool?

Not sure how much your ticket was Dave but my husband somehow managed to get a return for £14.50 from Lichfield but could still catch the train from Chester Rd to B'ham as it was on the same line.It would have been 30 odd quid otherwise.Mad !

[Chris Smith]

Just read that we've now dropped 23 points from winning positions this season. If we'd held  on in all of those games we'd now be third.

On the face of it that's a damning statistic but it does give some cause for optimism. It shows that we can give teams a game, we can put ourselves in a position to win but struggle to see it out.

[Concrete John]

Just read that we've now dropped 23 points from winning positions this season. If we'd held  on in all of those games we'd now be third.

On the face of it that's a damning statistic but it does give some cause for optimism. It shows that we can give teams a game, we can put ourselves in a position to win but struggle to see it out.

Every team loses points from winning positions so it would be unrealistic to presume we would never do so and be third.  Might be a better comparison to presume only half those 23 would normally be lost and see where that leaves us.

But the bigger question is the 'why' of failing to hold onto leads?   

[Rip Van We Go Again]

Just read that we've now dropped 23 points from winning positions this season. If we'd held  on in all of those games we'd now be third.

On the face of it that's a damning statistic but it does give some cause for optimism. It shows that we can give teams a game, we can put ourselves in a position to win but struggle to see it out.

Every team loses points from winning positions so it would be unrealistic to presume we would never do so and be third.  Might be a better comparison to presume only half those 23 would normally be lost and see where that leaves us.

But the bigger question is the 'why' of failing to hold onto leads?   

And an even bigger question is 'Can' we stop giving leads away?
It seems unlikely at this stage that we'll suddenly spurn our bad habits.

[Chris Smith]

Just read that we've now dropped 23 points from winning positions this season. If we'd held  on in all of those games we'd now be third.

On the face of it that's a damning statistic but it does give some cause for optimism. It shows that we can give teams a game, we can put ourselves in a position to win but struggle to see it out.

Every team loses points from winning positions so it would be unrealistic to presume we would never do so and be third.  Might be a better comparison to presume only half those 23 would normally be lost and see where that leaves us.

But the bigger question is the 'why' of failing to hold onto leads?   

Of course I wouldn't expect us to hold on to all of those leads although we were very good at it under the previous manager. I just used it as an illustration.

It says to me that we are doing a lot right, playing the sort of football that gives us a chance of winning games. You're right we do need to sort out why we can't hold on but at the same time not lose focus on the things that are putting us in that position in the fisrt place. I think what I'm saying is that we're not quite as bad as some people are suggesting.

[Concrete John]

Just read that we've now dropped 23 points from winning positions this season. If we'd held  on in all of those games we'd now be third.

On the face of it that's a damning statistic but it does give some cause for optimism. It shows that we can give teams a game, we can put ourselves in a position to win but struggle to see it out.

Every team loses points from winning positions so it would be unrealistic to presume we would never do so and be third.  Might be a better comparison to presume only half those 23 would normally be lost and see where that leaves us.

But the bigger question is the 'why' of failing to hold onto leads?   

Of course I wouldn't expect us to hold on to all of those leads although we were very good at it under the previous manager. I just used it as an illustration.

It says to me that we are doing a lot right, playing the sort of football that gives us a chance of winning games. You're right we do need to sort out why we can't hold on but at the same time not lose focus on the things that are putting us in that position in the fisrt place. I think what I'm saying is that we're not quite as bad as some people are suggesting.

We are certainly capable of better - the team sheet alone tells us that!

To me it's just another way to illustrate the defensive frailties we have.  We take the kead by scoring, which we know we're capable of doing, and then lose it by letting goals in, which we know is a problem.  I'm not sure the timing of when the goals come is all that significant.

[Risso]

All it shows is that we score some goals, not as many as a lot of teams, and then concede a whole lot more.  We always used to hear these sorts of arguments under O'Neill.  "If we can turn some draws into wins, we'll definitely finish top 4 next season."  It never happened.  We're undoubtedly in for a lot of comings and goings player wise at the end of this season, so it's just not possible to say what shape the team will be in.  We may well improve the defence, but then players like Ashley Young will move on, weakening us up front.

The only stat that matters right now is the one that shows us two points ahead of the relegation places.  That's got to improve.

[Rip Van We Go Again]

I think what I'm saying is that we're not quite as bad as some people are suggesting.

The table doesn't lie.

Somebody told me that if we'd won all our games, we'd be top by now.

Food for thought.

[Chris Smith]

I think what I'm saying is that we're not quite as bad as some people are suggesting.

The table doesn't lie.

Somebody told me that if we'd won all our games, we'd be top by now.

Food for thought.

Well done for that useful and insightful contribution, I'm glad to see you're not letting your standards slip.

The point is that we've dropped more points in this way than anyone else, which is what makes it significant. I'm not trying to make excuses or claim that we're anything that we're not. I just thought what with this being a discussion board it was something worth discussing.

[VillaZogmariner]

More worryingly is that we've only won 3 points from a losing position this season (all draws). Only team worse than that is Blackburn.

Compare that to WBA who have won 19 points.