The run-in for the "looking" doomed

[BannedUserIAT]

The bloke is a disaster, the squad are out of controll, he seems unable to sort out the defence, he puts Pires on the pitch, he makes ludicrous comments about our club, he throws games, persists in playing Young in a role he cant manage. Finally he has turned the support against him.

So, players go out of control with disastrous results and turn the fans against them and it's their manager's fault.
Surely then, by your own rules, this must lie squarely at Lerner's feet, leaving Houllier blame-free?

[PhilGibson]

Momentum means a lot during the run in for relegation candidates, Blackburn, Blues, Blackpool, West Brom and Us are the teams on a downward spiral of results, West Ham, Wigan (after yesterday) and Wolves have an upward trajectory of results.

The problem we have and what could seal our fate is we have little experience of being in the fight for relegation, we do not have the players who are prepared to throw everything at it, and we are lacking the passion, grit and determination throughout the side.

Whatever is said and done, this season has been an unmitagated disaster, we lurch from one crisis to another.

We are the Newcastle team of two years ago, and we are not too big or too good to go down. I am more fearful now than ever, after watching yesterday's gutless display.

[pauliewalnuts]

The bloke is a disaster, the squad are out of controll, he seems unable to sort out the defence, he puts Pires on the pitch, he makes ludicrous comments about our club, he throws games, persists in playing Young in a role he cant manage. Finally he has turned the support against him.

Unfortunately, it is hard to disagree with any of that.

Right now, Randy should be sounding out possible replacements, to at least give ourselves a plan b in these two weeks.

I bet he isn't, though, as that would be too dishonourable for him. Well, lets see how much honour there is in watching us slip out of the top tier.

Piss poor leadership, just when we need the opposite. 

[sfx412]

It would bring some symmetry to our season
KMac started it in charge and should finish it in charge
Bit unfair on KMac though

indeed he started the bad run why not let him have the glory of finishing the job and take us down.

We have little hope under Houllier under K M there would be no hope.

[Clark W Griswold]

It would bring some symmetry to our season
KMac started it in charge and should finish it in charge
Bit unfair on KMac though

indeed he started the bad run why not let him have the glory of finishing the job and take us down.

We have little hope under Houllier under K M there would be no hope.

I would give both an equal 'very little' hope. Houllier has more experience but is the centre of a rotten regime, and KMac has no experience but may please a few in the camp till the end of the season.

[Percy McCarthy]

The bloke is a disaster, the squad are out of controll, he seems unable to sort out the defence, he puts Pires on the pitch, he makes ludicrous comments about our club, he throws games, persists in playing Young in a role he cant manage. Finally he has turned the support against him.

So, players go out of control with disastrous results and turn the fans against them and it's their manager's fault.
Surely then, by your own rules, this must lie squarely at Lerner's feet, leaving Houllier blame-free?

It's irrelevant exactly where the blame lies. Even if you're right, what are we going to do to stave off relegation? Sack the chairman and the players?

[Percy McCarthy]

The bloke is a disaster, the squad are out of controll, he seems unable to sort out the defence, he puts Pires on the pitch, he makes ludicrous comments about our club, he throws games, persists in playing Young in a role he cant manage. Finally he has turned the support against him.

Unfortunately, it is hard to disagree with any of that.

Right now, Randy should be sounding out possible replacements, to at least give ourselves a plan b in these two weeks.

I bet he isn't, though, as that would be too dishonourable for him. Well, lets see how much honour there is in watching us slip out of the top tier.

Piss poor leadership, just when we need the opposite. 

How about Martin Jol and Chris Hughton?

[Rip Van We Go Again]

8 Vital games, I can see no way of Houllier lifting the team.
He should go and we need somebody who can provide a short term fix.
It's not ideal, but neither is being in the poxy Championship.

[BannedUserIAT]

The bloke is a disaster, the squad are out of controll, he seems unable to sort out the defence, he puts Pires on the pitch, he makes ludicrous comments about our club, he throws games, persists in playing Young in a role he cant manage. Finally he has turned the support against him.

So, players go out of control with disastrous results and turn the fans against them and it's their manager's fault.
Surely then, by your own rules, this must lie squarely at Lerner's feet, leaving Houllier blame-free?

It's irrelevant exactly where the blame lies. Even if you're right, what are we going to do to stave off relegation? Sack the chairman and the players?

That was sarcasm, Percy. I don't blame Lerner.
Well, actually I do yes for giving MoN a push without having someone to replace him. And for hiring a 17 year old East-Enders look-a-like instead of getting a football person in.

Aside from that, though, the blame for the mess this season is in lies with Houllier.

I was just pointing out the folly of Hawkeye's comment about only ever blaming the more senior manager for the woes of his subordinates.

[Pat McMahon]

It’s a cold and rainy night in Shanghai so I thought I could depress myself further by looking at our form under Gerard.

If my memory is correct he took over before Wolves away, when we had 7 points from 5 games and we were placed relatively healthily at 8th in the table.  We now sit in 14th with 33 points from 30 games – that is 26 points from 25 games. In that same period, counting from the bottom of the table upwards on 19 September, W Ham have gained 31 points, Everton 38 points,  Wigan 26 points, Stoke 33 points,  Liverpool 37 points, Wolves 27 points, Blackburn 28 points,  Bolton 34 points, Blues 25 points,  Sunderland 32 points,  Albion 26 points,  Blackpool 26 points, Fulham 28 points, Newcastle 29 points. The other 5 clubs are in a different league.

In other words, if you base our form on the past 25 games - a reasonable sample, statistically – the table would look have Blues bottom with 25 points, then Wigan, Albion, Blackpool and Villa on 26 points, Wolves on 27 and Fulham & Blackburn on 28 points (I can’t be arsed to calculate goal difference, so thanks to anybody who can cheer me up if this works in our favour). So it could come down to goal difference and I am not sure my poor we heart can cope with that from this distance, (or any other distance to be honest).

I actually think that sacking GH now would have no benefit as I simply cannot see an obvious replacement. There are a couple of people who could well get us through a dogfight – Big Sam, Neil Warnock – but would they be viable medium term managers of the club? The answer to that may depend on which division we find ourselves come May. Oh irony of ironies, MON would be very well suited to this situation.

I have to be frank, I am shitting myself with every game now.

Apologies for the double post, but I wasn’t sure which thread this was most suited to.

[hawkeye]

The bloke is a disaster, the squad are out of controll, he seems unable to sort out the defence, he puts Pires on the pitch, he makes ludicrous comments about our club, he throws games, persists in playing Young in a role he cant manage. Finally he has turned the support against him.

So, players go out of control with disastrous results and turn the fans against them and it's their manager's fault.
Surely then, by your own rules, this must lie squarely at Lerner's feet, leaving Houllier blame-free?

Who is ultimately responsible for the playing staff? The fans turned on Houlier, saw your above post

[SoccerHQ]

It would bring some symmetry to our season
KMac started it in charge and should finish it in charge
Bit unfair on KMac though

indeed he started the bad run why not let him have the glory of finishing the job and take us down.

We have little hope under Houllier under K M there would be no hope.

I think come the end of the season we'll be thankful that Mac managed to at least win those two home games in August.

[KevinGage]

It would bring some symmetry to our season
KMac started it in charge and should finish it in charge
Bit unfair on KMac though

indeed he started the bad run why not let him have the glory of finishing the job and take us down.

We have little hope under Houllier under K M there would be no hope.

I would give both an equal 'very little' hope. Houllier has more experience but is the centre of a rotten regime, and KMac has no experience but may please a few in the camp till the end of the season.

That might just be enough though.

If Kevin Mac was to get any kind of response would two wins and a few draws out of the the remaining 8 games seem so unlikely, bearing in mind the sides we are playing?

It might not even be beyond Houllier and -chances are- we're going to have to test that theory as I don't think RL will make any changes this season now. Barring a rout at Everton, then he might have little choice but to act.

[Toronto Villa]

when the squad was meant to be happy to have KM in charge, they went and royally shit the bed at Newcastle. We could have lost by 10 that day. What makes anyone think that he's the man for the crisis now? He wasn't the man then and I don't think he's the man now.

Two weeks ago, having beaten Blackburn we were all more buoyant and confident that we had more than enough to see this through. On the verge of 3-1, having completely battered a good Bolton side on their own pitch, most of us were still thinking that despite the events of Man City, the team had plenty of ability and should see this thing through. Did the players suddenly give up on the manager? Did Ash miss his kick on purpose as a preverbial 2 finger salute to all of us? Did the side suddenly cave in defensively as a show of defiance to the board? No. They just played badly. It wasn't about the manager. It wasn't about him having lost the confidence of the players. As professionals they didn't do their job, every bit as much as the week before they did.

Yesterday was horrible, and at the worst possible time. On the back of a Bolton loss, a week off to watch Man City advance to the semi-final of the FA Cup, and then the events at the spa. It's culimnated in a lot of bad news in short order. We've all seen Villa play like that before. Many times at crucial times under MON if everyone remembers. MON hadn't lost the confidence of his players then, and neither do I believe GH has now (certain players aside). I think yesterday we just played really badly and got everything we deserved.

I posted this thread, not as a way to predict anything. I posted it so that we could see what everyone has left. That every team and set of fans in this position, and I could even have included Fulham in that, will be feeling the same as us. That we're going down for sure. Blues fans will be shitting it having thrown away the game versus Wigan, Baggies fans for throwing away a good lead vs Arsenal. West Ham on the surface showed a lot of spirit, but they got well lucky that Defoe had a nightmare in front of goal. Blackpool will be very upset to throw away their lead and so on. I'm not going to diminish the task at hand, but we're all in the same boat. I don't see our path any harder than that of the other teams, and I certainly won't be waving the white flag yet.

[KevinGage]

Newcastle was a bit of a freak result though, even in this annus horribilis of a season. Annus horrificus, in fact.

We actually played well for the opening 30 minutes. It did offer a portent of what we might come to expect from Friedel and Dunne, mind (in saying that, Friedel was MOTM in the next game v Everton).

Contrast the Newcastle game and that decent 30 minutes with Blackburn away,  Liverpool away Man Citeh away (twice) Sunderland and Wolves at home (just off the top of my head) where we didn't play well at any stage of the match.

Then there were other matches like Spurs at home, where we might have had periods of dominance, but never even looked like beating a side down to 10 men.

I don't think Kevin Mac would be in anyway a long term solution (I'm not sure he'd even want the job on a short term basis again either) and I don't think our defence would suddenly improve tenfold. In fact, I'd still expect a few hammerings between now and the end of the campaign.

But:

We might just have a better chance of etching out the 2/3 wins we need under a figure the players have a degree of time and respect for, rather than one they clearly don't.