The run-in for the "looking" doomed

[OzVilla]

We have Arsenal, Liverpool and all - 0 points ! thus making my four games TOTALLY CRUCIAL !

We've written those two games off completely then have we?

Smashing. Good thing we didn't decide we would get nothing from the Man Utd and Chelsea games I suppose.

Our Manager has recent form for writing off those sorts of games though Dave, that's the worry.

Our mindset, body language and approach to matches is appalling.

He's proven since the day he walked through the dorr to be is a clueless defeatist whose got to go or we'll be down.

[The Situation]

Eh yeah mate I have.

We cant beat Wolves at home - do you really think I expect to beat Arsenal away !

Get real will ya

Or maybe Arsenal could say that they can't beat West Brom from two attempts at doing so and we beat them comfortably.

We probably won't get anything. But it's a bit daft writing the game off at this point.

Exactly. Arsenal aren't invincible. Just shut them down like West Brom and Birmingham.

It's more likely Arsenal would win but it isn't a total write off. I'd just like us to be pretty safe by then.

[hawkeye]

to be safe we need 3 wins from the next 6 games, unlikely they will be got at Arse or Lpool, so we have to get them out of the rest, I cant see it, we have got 5 points from our last 6 games, we have lost 3 in a row.

[Toronto Villa]

We have Arsenal, Liverpool and all - 0 points ! thus making my four games TOTALLY CRUCIAL !

We've written those two games off completely then have we?

Smashing. Good thing we didn't decide we would get nothing from the Man Utd and Chelsea games I suppose.

Our Manager has recent form for writing off those sorts of games though Dave, that's the worry.

Our mindset, body language and approach to matches is appalling.

He's proven since the day he walked through the dorr to be is a clueless defeatist whose got to go or we'll be down.

does he? I'll grant you he could have done better in the FA Cup, but in which game in the league has he thrown in the towel?

[OzVilla]

We have Arsenal, Liverpool and all - 0 points ! thus making my four games TOTALLY CRUCIAL !

We've written those two games off completely then have we?

Smashing. Good thing we didn't decide we would get nothing from the Man Utd and Chelsea games I suppose.

Our Manager has recent form for writing off those sorts of games though Dave, that's the worry.

Our mindset, body language and approach to matches is appalling.

He's proven since the day he walked through the dorr to be is a clueless defeatist whose got to go or we'll be down.

does he? I'll grant you he could have done better in the FA Cup, but in which game in the league has he thrown in the towel?

Um where do we start, how about 'The Mighty Reds YNWA' away.

[OzVilla]

We have Arsenal, Liverpool and all - 0 points ! thus making my four games TOTALLY CRUCIAL !

We've written those two games off completely then have we?

Smashing. Good thing we didn't decide we would get nothing from the Man Utd and Chelsea games I suppose.

Our Manager has recent form for writing off those sorts of games though Dave, that's the worry.

Our mindset, body language and approach to matches is appalling.

He's proven since the day he walked through the dorr to be is a clueless defeatist whose got to go or we'll be down.

does he? I'll grant you he could have done better in the FA Cup, but in which game in the league has he thrown in the towel?

Um where do we start, how about 'The Mighty Reds YNWA' away.

Man Citeh away

[Toronto Villa]

We have Arsenal, Liverpool and all - 0 points ! thus making my four games TOTALLY CRUCIAL !

We've written those two games off completely then have we?

Smashing. Good thing we didn't decide we would get nothing from the Man Utd and Chelsea games I suppose.

Our Manager has recent form for writing off those sorts of games though Dave, that's the worry.

Our mindset, body language and approach to matches is appalling.

He's proven since the day he walked through the dorr to be is a clueless defeatist whose got to go or we'll be down.

does he? I'll grant you he could have done better in the FA Cup, but in which game in the league has he thrown in the towel?

Um where do we start, how about 'The Mighty Reds YNWA' away.

Man Citeh away

I knew you'd go to those two games. Did he write them off by picking a weakened team, or did we just play shit? Not the same at all.

[OzVilla]

So you now admit that there are expamples then. 

I chose those as they were the most obvious examples and that they are the 'top' 4' opposition that Dave was suggesting we should'nt write ourselves off against.

Check out GH's post match comments if you don't think he thought we didn't stand a chance anyway, although we were poor all we really got was exactly what the Manager expected according to him - that's the kind of mindset that filters down to the players.  That get's us to where we are now.  In the shit.

[Toronto Villa]

So you now admit that there are expamples then. 

I chose those as they were the most obvious examples and that they are the 'top' 4' opposition that Dave was suggesting we should'nt write ourselves off against.

Check out GH's post match comments if you don't think he thought we didn't stand a chance anyway, although we were poor all we really got was exactly what the Manager expected according to him - that's the kind of mindset that filters down to the players.  That get's us to where we are now.  In the shit.

no off course they are not examples. I just said as much. I said we played shit, and not that the manager threw the towel in before the game started as you are suggesting. If you are so confident of that opinion, why didn't we get battered by 7 at Chelsea again, or give up fighting against Man U? They are equally valid arguments to suggest he doesn't just pull the chute against top teams.

Are you honestly suggesting that not only had the manager given up prior to those games, but that he also convinced his staff and players during the course of the week that it wasn't worth it?

[The Situation]

Just been looking at fixtures for other teams. Some have got it quite tough, some have got it easier.

40 points wouldn't be enough I don't think. It'd be cutting it too fine like I said previously. 43/44 should hopefully see us safe.

[OzVilla]

So you now admit that there are expamples then. 

I chose those as they were the most obvious examples and that they are the 'top' 4' opposition that Dave was suggesting we should'nt write ourselves off against.

Check out GH's post match comments if you don't think he thought we didn't stand a chance anyway, although we were poor all we really got was exactly what the Manager expected according to him - that's the kind of mindset that filters down to the players.  That get's us to where we are now.  In the shit.

no off course they are not examples. I just said as much. I said we played shit, and not that the manager threw the towel in before the game started as you are suggesting. If you are so confident of that opinion, why didn't we get battered by 7 at Chelsea again, or give up fighting against Man U? They are equally valid arguments to suggest he doesn't just pull the chute against top teams.

Well firstly Chelsea aren't nearly the side this year that they were when we got that tonking.  And Man Utd did enough against us, they had a gear or two in them if they needed it which they didn't.

His whole demeanour backed up by his post match comments is of someone who doesn't believe we can compete in games against the Top 4/5 sides, perhaps I am wrong but that's always how it comes across.  He admitted against both 'The Mighty Reds YNWA' and Citeh that they moment we went behind the game was up as they had too much quality for us - what sort of Mangerial leadership is that ffs.  They are precise examples of throwing in the towel imo.

I honestly think GH will look at the Arsenal game for example as one to pretty much write off now and concentrate on the other games - for example a point is an unexpected bonus.  Everything he's said and done up untill now would lead to this conclusion. 

He's turned what was an decent Premiership team into a poor one.  That's probably why the players look so disinterested in playing for him right now.

[Hoppo]

You cant defend Houllier after today the man is clueless! Pires wtf! What is with this football snobbery weve got? Big Sam 3 wins stay up and consider options in the summer. I was there when we got relegated against Sheff Wed in 87. 16500 Robinson and Gallagher making their debuts! Dont want that feeling ever again but its happening. Were sleepwalking into relegation at the moment.

[KevinGage]

Or how about the reaction post Man U game at home?

"When they got the first, you knew they would get the second."

Really? Well the onus is kinda on you to try and stop that.
Yes we all feared that would be the case, but you don't want your own manager saying as much -and seemingly happy just to drift with the tide.

Which pretty much sums up the entire GH reign, he just seems in permanent cruise control. Whether it's the awareness now that football pales into insignificance after the kind of healthscare he had in 2001 I'm not sure. Yes it does pale into insignificance, but you still want a manager with a bit of fight in him. And no, that doesn't necessarily mean tearing around the dugout like a dervish or tormenting the 4th official. I don't hate the bloke - in weaker moments I actually pity him (though when I think of the reported £4 million (!) salary he's drawing down to throw big games it tempers those thoughts somewhat).

He brings an academic approach to football and his record pre Villa deserves respect. Most top managers have at least one club where it doesn't work out. He hasn't helped his own cause with some of his comments that displayed a lack of respect and awareness for our place in the game, but in truth it seems to be a growing trend amongst those who don't have some kind of history or former tie to the club.

[hawkeye]

The bloke is a disaster, the squad are out of controll, he seems unable to sort out the defence, he puts Pires on the pitch, he makes ludicrous comments about our club, he throws games, persists in playing Young in a role he cant manage. Finally he has turned the support against him.

[Hoppo]

Spot on Hawkeye.