Aston Villa v Wolverhampton Wanderers Post-Match Thread

[adrenachrome]

I've got back, had a beer, watched some rugby and generally tried to forget what I've witnessed this afternoon.

But it is no good.

That was about as abject as it gets. 

Back in December there were those of us who were worried about the way the club was heading and started to use the 'R' word.   We were castigated for that view.  Look at the injuries, we were told.  Look at the run of fixtures.   It will all be all right.

Well look at us now.

We need at least three wins from the next six matches to save us.  Can you see that happening?  I can't.

Today a team wearing Villa shirts put on the must gutless, passionless display I've seen at home for a long, long time.  No pride, no desire, no spirit.    Something that at least six of the teams around us have in abundance.

Houllier is a joke.  Never has a manager alienated the fans and presided over such a massive reversal of fortunes.  He is the worst incumbent of the Villa dugout I've ever known.  And I knew the Villa under Billy McNeill.   

Today, his failings in terms of team selection, tactical set-up, deployment of substitutes and motivational skills were - yet again - glaringly obvious.  And that's before I even consider the fact that he threw in the towel on the FA Cup to garner zero points from the next two league games. 

What Collins and Dunne did was unacceptable, but, I actually have sympathy for their assertions that the coaching is joke.  Can anyone who has been today, really say that the Clairefontaine way is reaping any rewards?  The currency of footballing success is victories.  At this stage of the season, it doesn't matter how they are earned.     

The main difference between Houllier and McNeil & O'Leary is the mistifying support he maintains among those supporters who took against our previous manager, O'Neill.

Seemingly no surrender, no relegation can surpass in their disgust the 6th placed finishes he saddled us with.

Are you persisting with that boys?

Persisting? They're stepping it up - apparently he's texting them telling them to play crap and get pissed.

Percy, don't forget that MoN could make us follow him into a burning building, so it is hardly surprising that he he is still in control of the players' fragile little minds. 

The Gnasher probably monitors the brainwaves transmitted to Bodymoor Heath from his Satellite Control Centre, which he constructed to watch the games as he refuses to go to VP until Doug is no longer in control.

[Tony]

The main difference between Houllier and McNeil & O'Leary is the mistifying support he maintains among those supporters who took against our previous manager, O'Neill.

Seemingly no surrender, no relegation can surpass in their disgust the 6th placed finishes he saddled us with.

Are you persisting with that boys?

As someone who was 1 an O'Neill fan and 2, has a father and loads of relations from the part of world O'Neill hails from I will say, O'Neill quitting when he did caused maximum damage and was likely planned to do so.

I don't see what your first two points have to do with your (difficult to believe and, even if true, increasigly irrelevant) third?

O'Neill quitting when he did fucked up our season.

As I said, it doesn't matter where your dad is from.  O'Neill leaving meant we were unlikely to challenge seriously for Europe (unless we appointed a decent replacement). The board and the board's appointment have to carry the can for our imminent relegation/avoidance of relegation.

And I say that as someone who couldn't give a fuck where anyone's dad is from.

Once he quit I could see how vindictive and calculated that move was, if you don't want to believe that, it's upto you.

[KevinGage]

Well as someone who was occasionally critical of MON, I'm not sure what camp I belong in.

Is it possible to think that certain elements of the MON years were unsatisfactory and prevented us from really maximizing the opportunity we had between 2008-2010 whilst at the same time being absolutely certain that GH is doing a far worse job in most key areas?

[Brian Taylor]

oh bollocks.. Get Tommy Docherty back!

[Sexual Ealing]

Well as someone who was occasionally critical of MON, I'm not sure what camp I belong in.

Is it possible to think that certain elements of the MON years were unsatisfactory and prevented us from really maximizing the opportunity we had between 2008-2010 whilst at the same time being absolutely certain that GH is doing a far worse job in most key areas?

Kevin, it seems you're lost in that football-fan hinterland where evidence suprcedes prejudice. It's what non-football fans call, er, well nothing, they tend not to get too het up about stuff that doesn't matter, or is obvious.

[Greg N'Ash]

Quote from: gregnash on Today at 11:25:40 PM
ah percy. you must be loving this. Still he's never coming back. ever :0)

Greg, while O'Neill was here, you were absolutely delighted every time Villa got beat.

Nope. That was just your fantasy - you needed an enemy for MON and once you'd selected me i was capable of anything in your eyes

I hate us losing, as I did then, so don't judge me by your standards.
 For all your talk of the Messiah, the Blessed Martin and all that shit that only you and the other MON-haters ever called him, I only judged him on results, not personality, which I don't give a shit about.

Really? you come over like Forum's version of Dick Dunne, harking back to the good ''ol days every 5 minutes, not realising that many who can't stand Houllier have no wish to relive MON either. I could imagine you two in a pub corner gradually getting more and more pissed and bitter before taking a chair leg to anyone who won't agree that the blessed martin knows best

I think it's pretty clear, given your sympathy for the hapless present incumbent and your hatred of the previous one, that you place greater emphasis on other things.

I have sympathy for the present encumbant yes. As for hatred for MON, it was only for his shite football until he showed his true colours last summer. Now yes, i do dislike him quite a bit, but then he's a ******.

By the way, I posted as soon as MON went that if his heart wasn't in it, it's better he goes, and that he bottled a challenging situation.

well goody for you. maybe  a manager with a clubs best interests in mind would actually decide to leave when the club had a chance to pick a new manager at their leisure. Maybe if he had the present incumbant wouldn't be in charge?

[Percy McCarthy]

Well as someone who was occasionally critical of MON, I'm not sure what camp I belong in.

Is it possible to think that certain elements of the MON years were unsatisfactory and prevented us from really maximizing the opportunity we had between 2008-2010 whilst at the same time being absolutely certain that GH is doing a far worse job in most key areas?

That's probably the camp I'm in. I think that people who still tend to stick up for Houllier while being overly critical of managers who have done a much better job must be caught up in this weird 'cult of personality' thing that The Blessed Ged, as I believe they call him, has going for him. They're like religious freaks, they wear cardigans and shake tambourines, still convinced we'll finish fifth.

[Brian Taylor]

We paid £18m for a goal machine maybe £24m if he scores so many; and we stay up..Where was he?
Are we trying to save money by going down? Do we have a £50K pw wages bill as a result? How much do Wolves pay Jervis? Not that much for sure  oh forget it... two months of absolute misery to ensue to end 4th from bottom, I pray!  If not well where do we go?

[Percy McCarthy]

Quote from: gregnash on Today at 11:25:40 PM
ah percy. you must be loving this. Still he's never coming back. ever :0)

Greg, while O'Neill was here, you were absolutely delighted every time Villa got beat.

Nope. That was just your fantasy - you needed an enemy for MON and once you'd selected me i was capable of anything in your eyes

I hate us losing, as I did then, so don't judge me by your standards.
 For all your talk of the Messiah, the Blessed Martin and all that shit that only you and the other MON-haters ever called him, I only judged him on results, not personality, which I don't give a shit about.

Really? you come over like Forum's version of Dick Dunne, harking back to the good ''ol days every 5 minutes, not realising that many who can't stand Houllier have no wish to relive MON either. I could imagine you two in a pub corner gradually getting more and more pissed and bitter before taking a chair leg to anyone who won't agree that the blessed martin knows best

I think it's pretty clear, given your sympathy for the hapless present incumbent and your hatred of the previous one, that you place greater emphasis on other things.

I have sympathy for the present encumbant yes. As for hatred for MON, it was only for his shite football until he showed his true colours last summer. Now yes, i do dislike him quite a bit, but then he's a c***.

By the way, I posted as soon as MON went that if his heart wasn't in it, it's better he goes, and that he bottled a challenging situation.

well goody for you. maybe  a manager with a clubs best interests in mind would actually decide to leave when the club had a chance to pick a new manager at their leisure. Maybe if he had the present incumbant wouldn't be in charge?

You hardly ever commented on a post-match thread unless we lost. You're motivation and glee when we did was obvious to everyone.

I don't hark back to the 'good old days' every five minutes, far from it. You've only been back on here five minutes, and guess what? We're only talking about MON now because you think he's running the club with Doug.

From the little I know about the circumstances, I agree with your last point.

[Greg N'Ash]

Again, that was just you  and some of the more scary cultists. I often got accused of not commenting on a win when it was there in black and white. Pointless arguing with some of you it was so ingrained

you 2nd paragrapth just shows what i mean. I've not mentioned Doug, and i never left, just didn't post

[PeterWithesShin]

Re the 'time out' - I was confused at the time but it transpired that the linesman on that side had got injured or spontaneously combusted or something so they had to get another one unpacked. Nothing to do with McCarthy other than he took the opportunity to give his players a drink and a chat

One manager was smart enough to use the time as a benefit to his side. One manager wasn't.

what would you have done?

I'm not a manager. I'm not paid a fortune to know what he should do in that situation. He however, is a manager, he is paid a fortune to know what to do and i'm going to take a wild guess that things weren't going quite as he hoped. That is the time a manager earns his money. McCarthy used that time to give players drinks and instructions and whatever else he did/said. Houllier did fuck all.

Whose method do you think was more inspiring, or more likely to motivate/inspire his players?

[Brian Taylor]

Mon had a plan the would keep is above Blackpool and Bolton...
Now we must scheme to stay above Leeds, Hull and Nottingham..
Get ready for the big gates Grimsby haven'r seen for 30 years

[Percy McCarthy]

Again, that was just you  and some of the more scary cultists. I often got accused of not commenting on a win when it was there in black and white. Pointless arguing with some of you it was so ingrained

you 2nd paragrapth just shows what i mean. I've not mentioned Doug, and i never left, just didn't post

Oh, so you don't think Doug is running the club anymore? In that case I apologise, I didn't realise you'd changed your mind about that. MON still is though, right?

There you go about 'cults' again. Results, greg, that's what I care about. Aston Villa and their results. That's why, when I'm at the game (and I'm nearly always at the game whoever the manager is and despite finances not being great at the moment), I shout encouragement at the top of my voice and whisper criticism under my breath. I'd imagine you'd be the opposite if you could be bothered to go.

[Greg N'Ash]

bottom line is MON doesn't matter anymore in the big scheme of things Percy. I just hope you and some of the senior players realise that because if we don't pull together as a team, then whether its GH or some other mug we'll go down

[atomicjam]

Today was awful, really awful. I see the Mirror have a story linking us with Sparky! Mark Hughes would be doing better than GH imo if he was the Villa manager. I imagine mid table- enough above the group of could be relegated but below the could be Europe next season teams. Even with a number of youngsters we have better players than half the league. Despite injuries and childish tantrums by players he would stamp a mid table Mark Hughes stamp on the team. But he is not the answer, and as the story is most likely bollocks it matters not anyway. Big Fat Sam is not the answer either.

GH has a great football vision, he is good at spotting talent but is he a Manager anymore? I have defending him. I see what he wants to do, noble as it is, get good footballers to express themselves, pass through teams, win games and build a future through young talent with the right attitude. Great, I agree, its a blue print of success.

But, if 30% of the team cannot, or will not listen. If you encounter an injury crises, twice, and you cannot get players in because you morally will not allow them back, you have 38 games (less those of K Mac) to create a revolution. And you do not have enough in reserve to cover for the bad attitude, utter twats that get God knows how many millions a year, then relegation is a real possibility. With Hughes or Sam the leadership of twats would be better. We will not win anything, we would not go down. With GH if there was no relegation he will get a team together better than those two. But we do not have the time, games are running out and the twat players are winning, we are losing.

I do not want big fat Sam, the twat money grabbing sons of Satan players, Hughes, or any other also ran solution. We have an owner that spends big & trusts in his manager.

And then there is the starting point. 'But its been sooo many months, let it go, blah blah blah', yep, MON. Thank you, you utter prick. Your team was falling apart, your team was not fit for purpose (literally), you started this ball rolling down the hill of failure. Your two, multi million pound back lines, your leaving at the worst time has resulted in a season that may or may not have the worst outcome in a generation.

So to GH. Too many problems with too many solutions in to short a space of time. We are lost, no fight but hidden talent there somewhere. Randy, grab those players, give them a history lesson, tell them what AVFC means. GH, get a new Assistant, and grab those players. I do not want to go to Portsmouth again. Too many selfish agendas, too many spoilt brats, and a Manager with the best intentions. Its not working. The only thing I know is that I do not know how to change this for the better. Apart from getting the players to play for the club, 100%, that pays them. Is that asking too much. Sadly, probably.