Villa players in drunken bust up

[hawkeye]

i was taught something very early in  my career that has held true ever since.
If you want to know why a section, team, department, division, organisation, company is performing or not performing, look straight at the person at the top of that.
That is the answer it has allways been the answer.

Were you also taught that if two team members get into a fight on a night out then their manager should take all the blame for it?

i was taught that i should take resonsibility for it

With all due respect, you received some pretty shit training then.

I guess thats why people pay me money to deal with this stuff.

[LeeB]

Dunne and Collins are adults- they were trusted but threw that trust back into the staffs faces and could not control themselves- they have nobody to blame but themselves!

Unless of course, Dunne has a deep rooted alcohol based illness in which case leaving him in a bar all day then putting a free bar on in the evening isn't a very wise course of action.

You may be right Risso, but it's probably more down to the fact he's a selfish ****** who lacks self control.

[AV82EC]

So who is in charge of moral, who is in charge of team affairs, who is it that sets the agenda and strategy for games?
So we duck out of the cup and arrange some paint balling and a piss up, fantastic leadership.

What a load of horseshit.  So two grown men supposed professionals can't take responsibility for their own actions in this case maybe not getting completely pissed and then abusing other members of their management team and you think thats the fault of the Manager!!  However as your agenda seems to be Houllier can do nothing right I suppose we'll have to side with the misbehaving toddlers in this case and use their actions as another stick to beat the Manager with.

[LeeB]

i was taught something very early in  my career that has held true ever since.
If you want to know why a section, team, department, division, organisation, company is performing or not performing, look straight at the person at the top of that.
That is the answer it has allways been the answer.

Were you also taught that if two team members get into a fight on a night out then their manager should take all the blame for it?

i was taught that i should take resonsibility for it

With all due respect, you received some pretty shit training then.

I guess thats why people pay me money to deal with this stuff.

Do you run a Premiership football team then?

[Ian.]

i was taught something very early in  my career that has held true ever since.
If you want to know why a section, team, department, division, organisation, company is performing or not performing, look straight at the person at the top of that.
That is the answer it has allways been the answer.

Shit stirrers and trouble makers can often play a huge role there.
In a line of work (like football) when it has been virtually impossible to shift said shit stirrers and trouble makers away from the club due to a four week window, the management may struggle to maintain control as his hands are somewhat tied.
Come May shift the shit stirrers and trouble makers out and still leave time to bring in replacements.

[ozzjim]

Seroiusly do people think that the villa squad all waved a fond goodbye to Dunne and Collins sitting in the bar as they left? They would not have been left a mandate to sit and get pissed for the day, and I would trust 2 players who have captained their national sides on several occasions to be trusted to do what was asked of them during the day. Getting shitfaced and assaulting/ abusing a club legend and one of our top young players I can stake my house on not being on the criteria set out by the management team or physio's - they are not small children, they have got small children they are meant to be capable of looking after - they should be able to be trusted for a few hours. They have abused any trust given to them, and if Dunne never sets foot in Villa park again it will be a blessing. Get whatever we can in the summer. Good for much of last season, confirmed all of our worst fears when we signed him this.

[hawkeye]

 ::)No I dont run a PL team, obviously the fundementals of leadership change regarding football teams.
Thats the reason why some teams are successfull and some team are not.
Its obviously down to luck.

[LeeB]

::)No I dont run a PL team, obviously the fundementals of leadership change regarding football teams.
Thats the reason why some teams are successfull and some team are not.
Its obviously down to luck.

You should do then because you've obviously got it all worked out.

And while your at it, can you sort out the economy, because people who earn more money at this 'business' malarky than you are struggling.

[hawkeye]

LeeB if i could understand your post i would answer it

[hawkeye]

i was taught something very early in  my career that has held true ever since.
If you want to know why a section, team, department, division, organisation, company is performing or not performing, look straight at the person at the top of that.
That is the answer it has allways been the answer.

Shit stirrers and trouble makers can often play a huge role there.
In a line of work (like football) when it has been virtually impossible to shift said shit stirrers and trouble makers away from the club due to a four week window, the management may struggle to maintain control as his hands are somewhat tied.
Come May shift the shit stirrers and trouble makers out and still leave time to bring in replacements.

you obviously dont get it

[LeeB]

LeeB if i could understand your post i would answer it

That's quite amusing given the grammar of your reply. I take it you're not the leader of a crack team of high-flying secretaries?

[Ian.]

i was taught something very early in  my career that has held true ever since.
If you want to know why a section, team, department, division, organisation, company is performing or not performing, look straight at the person at the top of that.
That is the answer it has allways been the answer.

Shit stirrers and trouble makers can often play a huge role there.
In a line of work (like football) when it has been virtually impossible to shift said shit stirrers and trouble makers away from the club due to a four week window, the management may struggle to maintain control as his hands are somewhat tied.
Come May shift the shit stirrers and trouble makers out and still leave time to bring in replacements.

you obviously dont get it

If I'm mistaken it must be Randy's fault now then? Or have I still missed the point you were making?

[BannedUserIAT]

I agree with Hawkeye. I think it's disgusting that Houllier left a group of adults under his employ after a day of team building exercises in order to go back to work for a few hours. You cannot possibly have any expectation whatsoever that some employees won't slag the boss behind his back. You can't count on grown men not to pick someone up and throw them across a table. You can't leave a credit card on the bar and realistically expect it to be used in a reasonable way. Especially when the people left in charge of ordering drinks are pretty hard up financially and would likely not get out much/have much pocket money to spend.

Get. Fucking. Real.

They've had run-ins with Houllier and Mac on the training ground, face-to-face. These over-hyped prima donnas are not shy in saying what's on their mind. If Houllier HAD been there, they'd have likely had words anyway due to the influence of alcohol.

One big thing you seem to have failed to understand in all of this, Mr.Leadership, is that football is a totally different beast to an accounting firm, or a graphic design agency.
Some geek bean counter will, generally speaking, not have his house(s) paid for, will not be getting around in a Lambo or a Ferrari (or possible both), will not have millions in the bank or tied up in investments or be set for life. The nerdy graphic designer in the Atari t-shirt may have to struggle financially for a while whilst trying to find work if he tells his boss to fuck off/throws him over a table, whereas a footballer stands a good chance of getting his contract paid out in full and simply move on to the next job with some huge signing-on fee as he's now a free agent.

[Chris Smith]

i was taught something very early in  my career that has held true ever since.
If you want to know why a section, team, department, division, organisation, company is performing or not performing, look straight at the person at the top of that.
That is the answer it has allways been the answer.

Shit stirrers and trouble makers can often play a huge role there.
In a line of work (like football) when it has been virtually impossible to shift said shit stirrers and trouble makers away from the club due to a four week window, the management may struggle to maintain control as his hands are somewhat tied.
Come May shift the shit stirrers and trouble makers out and still leave time to bring in replacements.

you obviously dont get it

If I'm mistaken it must be Randy's fault now then? Or have I still missed the point you were making?

I think the point he is making is that he thinks there is only one solution to our problems, "SEND FOR HAWKEYE".

[black pearl of inchicore]

Now before some of you get on your hobby horses......just say for instance that Villa were relegated at the end of this season...who would you lot blame...Hardly Dunne and Collins??The rot always starts at the top.Just have a quick look at France's SA world cup,ended in a shambles.If the structures are'nt right..the systems fail.
                                       And where this system failed,the players should have been in Bodymoor Heath[state of the art training facility] and not some spa hotel.I don't think too many Company bosses would send their Del Boy Units to a spa hotel...most would be sent packing to a training course to improve their skills.