Has Houllier changed our club for the better?

[eastie]

I've seen Wigan and West Ham try to play the sort of football we're trying to play, and look where they are. 

thats like saying ive seen barcalona and arsenal playing the sort or football we are trying to play and look where they are.

Actually no it isn't.  Barcelona and Arsenal play a style of football light years removed from what we're capable of.  West ham and Wigan actually play a lot like us, try and pass it around a bit, concede lots of goals, lose.

patience risso, my friend , all good things come to those who wait , give houllier time and you will be thrilled by the quality of our winning football over the coming years.

[Jimbo]

With a house, you build the walls before you hang pretty pictures on them. Houllier should have sorted the defence as a priority, before getting the team to play his much vaunted attractive style of passing football.

[Chris Smith]

I've seen Wigan and West Ham try to play the sort of football we're trying to play, and look where they are. 

The problem isn't with the style of football. It is almost entirely down to how we defend set pieces. Yes, we concede in other ways too, so does everyone else, but if had defended dead balls even moderately well over the course of the season then we would be pushing for a top 6 place again. You cannot say the same about Wigan or West Ham.

[Risso]

I've seen Wigan and West Ham try to play the sort of football we're trying to play, and look where they are. 

thats like saying ive seen barcalona and arsenal playing the sort or football we are trying to play and look where they are.

Actually no it isn't.  Barcelona and Arsenal play a style of football light years removed from what we're capable of.  West ham and Wigan actually play a lot like us, try and pass it around a bit, concede lots of goals, lose.

patience risso, my friend , all good things come to those who wait , give houllier time and you will be thrilled by the quality of our winning football over the coming years.

Let's just hope it's not against the likes of Norwich and Preston eh?

[Risso]

I've seen Wigan and West Ham try to play the sort of football we're trying to play, and look where they are. 

The problem isn't with the style of football. It is almost entirely down to how we defend set pieces. Yes, we concede in other ways too, so does everyone else, but if had defended dead balls even moderately well over the course of the season then we would be pushing for a top 6 place again. You cannot say the same about Wigan or West Ham.

It's isn't just set pieces as you say, and it isn't even just the defence.  Only about 6 other teams have scored fewer goals than us. 

[Chris Smith]

I've seen Wigan and West Ham try to play the sort of football we're trying to play, and look where they are. 

The problem isn't with the style of football. It is almost entirely down to how we defend set pieces. Yes, we concede in other ways too, so does everyone else, but if had defended dead balls even moderately well over the course of the season then we would be pushing for a top 6 place again. You cannot say the same about Wigan or West Ham.

It's isn't just set pieces as you say, and it isn't even just the defence.  Only about 6 other teams have scored fewer goals than us. 

I still maintain that but for the excessive number of goals conceded from set pieces we'd have another 8-10 points which would put is in a far healthier position. Of course there are other things that we can improve but that is the reason we are in a relegaion battle.

[Mazrim]

We play far better football than West Ham and Wigan. Unfortunately if you then just concede silly goals it doesn't matter when looking at results on their own.
But we're not talking about results on their own because we all agree they arent good enough, we're talking about style of play.

Forget Arsenal and Barcelona. And forget West Ham and Wigan. Why not compare us to Chelsea instead? Until January (and Torres) they played a similar system to us, they have more quality of course but the main difference is they have a strong defence and a team that's played together for a while. So if we strengthen defence and get the team settled, which can't really happen until the summer, can't we expect to play a similar way and dramatically improve our fortunes?

[Risso]

So if we strengthen defence and get the team settled, which can't really happen until the summer, can't we expect to play a similar way and dramatically improve our fortunes?

If only football were that simple.  We're going to have a massive rebuilding job to do at the end of the season.  We almost need an entirely new defence, including a keeper.  I can see Ashley Young going, Gabby might well decide he needs a change of scene, and Heskey isn't what we need.  We're fairly well off in midfield, but there's going to be a lot of upheaval.  It's not just a case of tinkering with the defence and magically we'll be back up in the top 6.

[eastie]

we should be challenging for top 6 next season and top 8 at worst - i have faith that houllier will have us in that area next season and kick onwards from there.

[Chris Smith]

we should be challenging for top 6 next season and top 8 at worst - i have faith that houllier will have us in that area next season and kick onwards from there.

I don't think we can be certain about that. It looks like a number of players will be on their way this summer and until who is leaving and who is replacing them how can we make predictions on where we might finish?

[Concrete John]

So if we strengthen defence and get the team settled, which can't really happen until the summer, can't we expect to play a similar way and dramatically improve our fortunes?

If only football were that simple.  We're going to have a massive rebuilding job to do at the end of the season.  We almost need an entirely new defence, including a keeper.  I can see Ashley Young going, Gabby might well decide he needs a change of scene, and Heskey isn't what we need.  We're fairly well off in midfield, but there's going to be a lot of upheaval.  It's not just a case of tinkering with the defence and magically we'll be back up in the top 6.

I agree.  When people talk about 'few less goals against' and we'd be top 6, what you have to remember is that the league is pretty woeful this season and the points total for 6th will be quite far off what is has been for the last few seasons.  I don;t think that will be the case next season, so in order to get back to the position we were in we need quite dramatic improvement.

[eastie]

that would be the expectations chris to at least be top 8 next season , and i have faith houllier will bring in quality players and we can kick on from there, if next season we were still hovering in mid to low table then serious questions would need to be asked.

we would expect that the the players coming in were better than those leaving the club and with another year under his belt , i think expecting 6th to 8th is the least we should look for.

[Concrete John]

we should be challenging for top 6 next season and top 8 at worst - i have faith that houllier will have us in that area next season and kick onwards from there.

I don't think we can be certain about that. It looks like a number of players will be on their way this summer and until who is leaving and who is replacing them how can we make predictions on where we might finish?

Predictions?  Maybe not.  But given that we know he WILL be backed by Randy, then I think we can justifiably have expectations.

Besides, I thought he needed to bring a few more of his own players in so that his style would work better, so surely this would be to his benefit? 

[Risso]

So if we strengthen defence and get the team settled, which can't really happen until the summer, can't we expect to play a similar way and dramatically improve our fortunes?

If only football were that simple.  We're going to have a massive rebuilding job to do at the end of the season.  We almost need an entirely new defence, including a keeper.  I can see Ashley Young going, Gabby might well decide he needs a change of scene, and Heskey isn't what we need.  We're fairly well off in midfield, but there's going to be a lot of upheaval.  It's not just a case of tinkering with the defence and magically we'll be back up in the top 6.

I agree.  When people talk about 'few less goals against' and we'd be top 6, what you have to remember is that the league is pretty woeful this season and the points total for 6th will be quite far off what is has been for the last few seasons.  I don;t think that will be the case next season, so in order to get back to the position we were in we need quite dramatic improvement.

We heard it every year under O'Neill anyway.  It was always "the attack/defence is great, all we need to do is sort the defence/attack and we'll be top 4".  Football just doesn't work like that.  I'm afraid I've seen far more dismal performances than good ones under Houllier, and it's not at all just to do with set pieces.

[Mazrim]

We do have a rebuilding job on in the summer.
We've had this coming since last summer. Our squad was rotten to the core in pre season, more than anybody suspected.
So whatever happens, whoever is coming or going, it needs doing.
Its pointless speculating on replacing Young before he's decided what he's doing. All we know is that we need to overhaul the defence as it's the major weakness and yes, it is that simple.
We score goals, we move the ball about nicely, we just need to tighten up. Why overcomplicate it?

Then, if Gabby goes, replace him. If Young goes, replace him. We have a manager who knows the market and will act swiftly in it. Then he can spend the summer getting everything ready for next season. That's my hope anyway.
We've been playing catch up all season in terms of preparation. As a team we were not prepared at all for this season and its been one bombshell after another since. Injuries, playing up, arguments, sloppiness, new philosophies clashing with old and so on. No chance to catch our breath.
We desperately need it.

This season will be a godawful memory best forgotten in years to come. And forgotten it will be.