Fonz on loan to Burnley

[Mister E]

Oh dear. They will be loving him at Burnley. Lets hope we don't end up having him back, playing him a fair, bit buying two new strikers who can't score goals for twice the price we then sell him to some second rate club for, at which he then flowers into a £30 million pound international striker, who makes a habit of scoring against us (of course).

My guess is that Hou will want all his loanees back - I don't reckon he'll have a load to spend over the Summer so all the loanees may have a meaningful squad-role to play next season.

[pablopicasso_10]

He has been on the periphery for 3 seasons now and has made 41 appearances, most as sub.  If he was really that good then why has he not been involved more over what is quite a long period of time.

Ooh, I know this.

It's because he has only just turned 20 years old.

And?  So what if he is only 20.  If he has been around the 1st team for 3 years then it shouldn't make too much difference that he is "only 20".  Albrighton, Bannan and Clark are only 21 and have only really come into the fold this season and a small part of last season but two of those are now integral to our team.  I can think of a plethora of players who have made a bigger impact for their respective clubs by the age of 20 than Delfouneso and it's not as if we have been banging the goals in without him to halt his progression.

i am a little confused...

in your previous post, you say that because he hasnt made it after only just turning 20, (despite having 40 sub appearances and an excellent starts to goals ratio), that he wont make it... yet in the next one you compare him with other players who have very little appearances within the previous 3 years of turning 21, and they are apparently "integral" to our team...

going by your logic, as they hadnt made it at the age of 20, should we have written them off before giving them the opportunities at the age of 21?

[pablopicasso_10]

a season ticket burnley fan is going to keep me updated about his progress, and here is his first update....

Played well and offered something we've been severely lacking up front. Put a shift in for the team too as we battled for the three points. His goal was more or less his first touch in a Burnley shirt too. Can't complain!

[Holtenderinthesky]

He has been on the periphery for 3 seasons now and has made 41 appearances, most as sub.  If he was really that good then why has he not been involved more over what is quite a long period of time.

Ooh, I know this.

It's because he has only just turned 20 years old.

And?  So what if he is only 20.  If he has been around the 1st team for 3 years then it shouldn't make too much difference that he is "only 20".  Albrighton, Bannan and Clark are only 21 and have only really come into the fold this season and a small part of last season but two of those are now integral to our team.  I can think of a plethora of players who have made a bigger impact for their respective clubs by the age of 20 than Delfouneso and it's not as if we have been banging the goals in without him to halt his progression.

i am a little confused...

in your previous post, you say that because he hasnt made it after only just turning 20, (despite having 40 sub appearances and an excellent starts to goals ratio), that he wont make it... yet in the next one you compare him with other players who have very little appearances within the previous 3 years of turning 21, and they are apparently "integral" to our team...

going by your logic, as they hadnt made it at the age of 20, should we have written them off before giving them the opportunities at the age of 21?

No, what I said ws that because he has been around the 1st team for 3 years and still hasn't stepped up, that is why I don't think he'll make it.   And that is exactly the point!  Regarding the other players, they HAVE stepped up and ARE integral to out team, he isn't, despite having much more time around the senior squad.  Bloody hell, I've been ripped apart for daring to suggest that Delfouneso isn't good enough.  Maybe I'm wrong and he is the nest Andy Cole or Thierry Henry, I hope so, I really do and judging by the slaughtering for having the temerity to suggest otherwise it looks like I have really missed something.

[pablopicasso_10]

No, what I said ws that because he has been around the 1st team for 3 years and still hasn't stepped up, that is why I don't think he'll make it.   And that is exactly the point!  Regarding the other players, they HAVE stepped up and ARE integral to out team, he isn't, despite having much more time around the senior squad.  Bloody hell, I've been ripped apart for daring to suggest that Delfouneso isn't good enough.  Maybe I'm wrong and he is the nest Andy Cole or Thierry Henry, I hope so, I really do and judging by the slaughtering for having the temerity to suggest otherwise it looks like I have really missed something.

apologies if that appears that i am ripping you apart or slaughtering you for your opinion, that was certainly not the intention... i simply did not understand how one player of a certain age who had played in the first team was considered not good enough, while others who had not played and were older, were now integral to the team... thank you for clearing up your point...

youth development is not an exact science... some players develop earier, some later... whether thats physically, or mentally, no two players are the same...

personally, i think that the very fact that he is only 20, yet has played 40+ times for us (a lot as 5 minute sub appearances granted, and a lot of them out of position, yet his starts to goals ratio is very impressive at 8 goals in 11 starts, and his goals to minutes ratio is also very good too), shows that he is very highly regarded... and from what i have seen of the lad over the past several years across youth / reserve / first team and international performances, i can see why he so highly regarded...

bannon, albrighton and clark are all very good players too... although they werent considered ready for first team action much before turning 21, and that for me shows the different ways that some players develop... some develop earlier, like rooney, some later, like beckham (who himself was out on loan at the age of 20 odd years old to preston north end after a few first team games where it could be argued that he "failed to establish himself")... it also shows that maybe the previous manager was not actually managing the young players in the right way (and in bannons case, if the previous manager was still here, then bannon would not have been... just like gary cahill), so whether delfouneso (and any other young player) may have established himself better under a manager who manages youth better, is impossible to say, but i dont think the idea can be dismissed...

a lot of people also assume that because a player isnt an international at the age of 18-20, then he isnt going to be any good... and some think that because a player has played at a young age, he will be decent... but people dont look at circumstances regarding individual players, simply because wayne rooney was a regular first team player at the age of 17 / 18, due to his freakish physical presence... he still made learning curve mistakes, but his physical nature helped cover those... and he also played under a manager and with a team that helped him out with his errors... our players have not really had that, especially delfouneso who has pretty much been given a lot of 5-10 minutes at the end of games when we were sitting deep defending a lead and the service / support was not there (which is why i feel that his goals to starts ratio is so good, because that hasnt been the case for all of his starting games)... he has also been played out of position on the left wing, the right wing, and as a lone striker... and anyone who knows his strengths and weaknesses, knows that he is not a lone stiker, or a winger of either side... i really do feel that he has been managed poorly, and with the right guidence, he could be superb... take clark for example, he suits houllier passing game, and while he was battered by andy carroll, he suits the style we are looking towards... 

dont get me wrong, delfouneso is far from the finished article, and he has a lot to work on with his game... he needs to bulk out a little, he needs to work on his heading (by his own admission), and his decision making needs improving (with experience that will come) but i honestly believe that with the right circumstances, he could be a big player for us in the future...

[TheSandman]

Did some French magazine really dub him the new Thierry Henry?

That is not the first player to come into mind when I see young Nate.

[pablopicasso_10]

they did... think it was l'equippe when he was 16 or 17 years old...

he was also on a young world player award recently, with the likes of wilshere... he didnt win it, cant remember who did...

[Dante Lavelli]

Pablo (or anyone else that has watched him a lot)

If the fonz develops as you expect/hope what sort of player do you think he'll be. Not sure why but I always thought that he would be a good link player between the midfield and striker, so maybe a bergkamp (yes please!).

Will he be looking to complement Bent or replace him in the team? Similarly if we continue with a one up front policy (4231 or 433) where would be his best position?

[fredm]

Pablo (or anyone else that has watched him a lot)

If the fonz develops as you expect/hope what sort of player do you think he'll be. Not sure why but I always thought that he would be a good link player between the midfield and striker, so maybe a bergkamp (yes please!).

Will he be looking to complement Bent or replace him in the team? Similarly if we continue with a one up front policy (4231 or 433) where would be his best position?

I have said before I would like to have seen him get a run of games playing behind the main striker, in the position that Ash is playing.  While I think he is more of a striker than a link up man I think he is more a Michael Owen than a target man.  If he had played there off Heskey pre Bent I feel we would have scored more goals than we were doing and therefore would have more points in the bag.

[Tokyo Sexwhale]

they did... think it was l'equippe when he was 16 or 17 years old...

he was also on a young world player award recently, with the likes of wilshere... he didnt win it, cant remember who did...

Balotelli, I think.

[Holtenderinthesky]

they did... think it was l'equippe when he was 16 or 17 years old...

he was also on a young world player award recently, with the likes of wilshere... he didnt win it, cant remember who did...

Balotelli, I think.

Was that the rising star award or something?

[Clampy]

Personally, Fonz would be the striker i'd play if Bent was'nt available. I think teams have sussed Gabby out now to an extent and Heskey, who's been decent overall this season, is never going to score goals on a regular basis anyway.

[peter w]

I've liked him more based on what I've seen recently. He does look like he's beefed up and appears to have more conficdence on the ball. That is good to see and the backroom staff have worked well with him. But when he has had a chance to play down the middle he hasn't done it for me. And I agree that for a player so highly touted to not really show much more in the way of scoring is very disappointing. I would be more surprised to see him make it with us and to go higher in the game, than to see him follow Luke Moore around the Championship.

harsh? maybe. Too early to tell? maybe. But its what I see of him.

[Colhint]

I think the way a loan is structured and sold to a player is important. I think, although I do not know, under the previous regieme there seemed to be little logic as to where they went and how they were managed, or indeed how it was sold to the player. I do think under GH this is being addressed. I also think they know why they are going and believe they will make the first team when they get back

[pablopicasso_10]

Pablo (or anyone else that has watched him a lot)

If the fonz develops as you expect/hope what sort of player do you think he'll be. Not sure why but I always thought that he would be a good link player between the midfield and striker, so maybe a bergkamp (yes please!).

Will he be looking to complement Bent or replace him in the team? Similarly if we continue with a one up front policy (4231 or 433) where would be his best position?

while i dont like to compare him to any particular player, past or present, he is what i would call the perfect example of a "number 10" type striker... so, yes, your thoughts about a link player between the front line and midfield are accurate in my opinion... (exactly what we are missing at the moment i think)...

he has pace, quick feet, good close control, and can finish... his movement is intelligent, and the perfect example of that was against zilina when the team was playing crap, service was poor, and they were handling him just fine, so he dropped deeper to get the ball and started running at them... this scared them, and they ended up putting 3 or 4 on him... but as usual when we had another team focusing on one player, the other players didnt take advantage of the space it created... he obviously scored, and while it wasnt a perfect performance from him from what i know he can do, it showed his intelligence to read the play, and adapt his game to suit the situation...

he has worked well in the reserves with two types of strikers, the big slow brutish james collins jnr, and the pacy fox in the box weimann, but he usually is playing off these, so he can work with different types, as long as he is not the main focus in a lone role... i think he could work well with either bent or agbonlahor, as long as they hold up the ball...

he most certainly isnt a lone striker, and he is certainly not a winger, so he is wasted out in those positions and wont show his ability consistantly when put in these positions... and as i eluded to previously, the 5-10 mins here and there when we were sitting back and defending leads again, were not ideal to showcase his ability, and his goals to starts ratio where he is given more time to move the opposition defence about, get into space and goalscoring opportunities, would back up the thoughts that 5-10 mins here and there are not accurate in terms of his overall ability....

as i said though, he isnt the finished article, and still has a lot of work to do to progress, and even in his starts, i know he can perform better, but given a run of games, in his correct position, i think he could progress nicely and become a top player....