Zonal Marking

[Rip Van We Go Again]

We haven't suffered from horrendous injuries at centre half.

Collins and Dunne have each missed only a handful of league games, some of which were unrelated to injuries. How many times has Carlos sat on the bench? Clark has generally been exceptional for a defender in his inaugral season.

People are using injuries to excuse a totally unacceptable performance from the manager with this squad at his disposal.

Spot on. 

Yep.
Regardless of the personnel, the mistakes have been schoolboy-ish.
The buck stops with the manager and the coaching staff.

[Chris Smith]

We haven't suffered from horrendous injuries at centre half.

Collins and Dunne have each missed only a handful of league games, some of which were unrelated to injuries. How many times has Carlos sat on the bench? Clark has generally been exceptional for a defender in his inaugral season.

People are using injuries to excuse a totally unacceptable performance from the manager with this squad at his disposal.

Spot on. 

No it's not, it's mostly bollocks. Since GH took over, even you surely aren't going to criticise him for things that happened before he arrived, he's rarely been able to put out the same defence 2 games running and injuries have also deprived him of senior midfiled players to protect them.

Since January when senior players returned we stopped conceding as many goals, 5 in 6 games at one point. Injuries again on Saturday and we suffered for it.

To say that it hasn't had an impact is a distortion of the facts.

[Risso]

Since January when senior players returned we stopped conceding as many goals, 5 in 6 games at one point Injuries again on Saturday and we suffered for it.

The bit in bold, which games were they?

[Villa'Zawg]

Since January when senior players returned we stopped conceding as many goals, 5 in 6 games at one point Injuries again on Saturday and we suffered for it.

The bit in bold, which games were they?

His first 6 PL games. Yet they'll have you believe the problem stems from what he inherited.

[sfx412]

We haven't suffered from horrendous injuries at centre half.

Collins and Dunne have each missed only a handful of league games, some of which were unrelated to injuries. How many times has Carlos sat on the bench? Clark has generally been exceptional for a defender in his inaugral season.

People are using injuries to excuse a totally unacceptable performance from the manager with this squad at his disposal.

Spot on. 

I thought it took Houllier 6 games to get Dunne looking fit and another 2 to get him acting so.
I always thought the defence was more than just 2 cb's too, perhaps I git that wrong too.

[not3bad]

We haven't suffered from horrendous injuries at centre half.

Collins and Dunne have each missed only a handful of league games, some of which were unrelated to injuries. How many times has Carlos sat on the bench? Clark has generally been exceptional for a defender in his inaugral season.

People are using injuries to excuse a totally unacceptable performance from the manager with this squad at his disposal.

Spot on. 

I thought it took Houllier 6 games to get Dunne looking fit and another 2 to get him acting so.
I always thought the defence was more than just 2 cb's too, perhaps I git that wrong too.

Fair point actually.  We've had no settled left back this season and only a had a regular right bak since Walker came in (during which time results have improved).

[Risso]

Since January when senior players returned we stopped conceding as many goals, 5 in 6 games at one point Injuries again on Saturday and we suffered for it.

The bit in bold, which games were they?

His first 6 PL games. Yet they'll have you believe the problem stems from what he inherited.

So, since January we haven't had a spell where we conceded 5 goals in 6 games?

[pauliewalnuts]

We haven't suffered from horrendous injuries at centre half.

Collins and Dunne have each missed only a handful of league games, some of which were unrelated to injuries. How many times has Carlos sat on the bench? Clark has generally been exceptional for a defender in his inaugral season.

People are using injuries to excuse a totally unacceptable performance from the manager with this squad at his disposal.

Spot on. 

I thought it took Houllier 6 games to get Dunne looking fit and another 2 to get him acting so.
I always thought the defence was more than just 2 cb's too, perhaps I git that wrong too.

Dunne still doesn't look fit to me.

[Dr Butler]

I personally hate zonal bollocks, a man each on the post with the rest of them man for man and it also helps if the keeper can come and collect a cross. 

oh and a speedster ready on the halfway line ready for the clearances.
UTV
The Doc

[pauliewalnuts]

Since January when senior players returned we stopped conceding as many goals, 5 in 6 games at one point Injuries again on Saturday and we suffered for it.

The bit in bold, which games were they?

His first 6 PL games. Yet they'll have you believe the problem stems from what he inherited.

So, since January we haven't had a spell where we conceded 5 goals in 6 games?

5/1 Villa 0 - Sunderland 1 (Cuellar, Dunne, Clark, Collins)
8/1 Sheff Utd 1 - Villa 3 (Cuellar, Dunne, Clark, Walker)
16/1 Blues 1 - Villa 1 (Dunne, Walker, Clark, Collins)
22/1 Villa 1 - Man City 0 (Cuellar, Dunne, Clark, Collins)
25/1 Wigan 1 - Villa 2 (Cuellar, Dunne, Baker, Collins)
29/1 Villa 3 - Blackburn 1 (Cuellar, Baker, Walker, Clark)

So, if you include the cup games, we have. Interesting to see the presence of Cuellar in much of that run

A better record, but our defence has looked iffy on an almost uninterrupted basis from the start of the season.

There are a lot of things Gerard has had to put up with which weren't his fault (bad luck) or were hangovers from the MON era, but I honestly don't think the defence is something he can blame on what he inherited.

 

[Risso]

Even if you introduce cup games which is daft, those 6 games were bookended by four games in which we conceded 12 goals, which I suppose doesn't quite fit in with the point being made.

[pauliewalnuts]

Even if you introduce cup games which is daft, those 6 games were bookended by four games in which we conceded 12 goals, which I suppose doesn't quite fit in with the point being made.

Why is it daft?

It is a run of 6 games in which we conceded 5 goals which is what we were talking about.

I'm quite happy to say I think Gerard is fucking clueless when it comes to the defence - I think he is - but it is a bit daft to ignore facts because they purely aren't convenient.

[Merv]

For me, the crux of the matter is still the personnel involved; it's wrong of Houllier to blame O'Neill for defensive shortcoming as last season we were pretty tight, but I generally think that when we've had our key defenders available, we've looked stronger. The back four for those selected games shows we had at least two, if not three, of our senior defenders playing.

I'm not sure it's anything more complicated than that, to be honest. Put Luke Young at CB alongside Clark and we look vulnerable? Who'd have thunk it? Chris Herd at right-back for Man City away, shaky? No way! Etc...

[Risso]

I'm quite happy to say I think Gerard is fucking clueless when it comes to the defence - I think he is - but it is a bit daft to ignore facts because they purely aren't convenient.

Convenient would be ignoring the 12 goals we conceded either side of those games.

[pauliewalnuts]

I'm quite happy to say I think Gerard is fucking clueless when it comes to the defence - I think he is - but it is a bit daft to ignore facts because they purely aren't convenient.

Convenient would be ignoring the 12 goals we conceded either side of those games.

No. That's irrelevant.

Chris said we had a spell of 6 games where we conceded 5 goals, indicating that we are capable of putting a run together.

VD said it was at the start of the season, you implied we hadn't done it, I was just pointing out that, actually, we have.