Summer transfer rumours, speculation and out-and-out b*ll*cks.

[Toronto Villa]

I think the point that was being made was that Doug would have taken the first offer on the table, at least this lot don't roll over and take whatever is on offer.

They still take the money, though. That's the problem.

So what exactly would you have done differently?

[Toronto Villa]

... say what you want about Randy/Faulkner they haven't let us down at all when selling our better players.

This was intended as irony, surely?

Why? Getting what might amount to being 90-100 million for 4 players is good for players that want out. I'd have been upset if we took any less or if the players all wanted to stay and they sold them. That wasn't the case.

[Mazrim]

Hands up, who's in the mood for bindippers coming here and telling us what our players are worth and what their piss taking club will or will not pay?
Oh yes, delightful.

It's the curious logic of it all that I find most enjoyable.
 
Overpaid. But 'on their terms.'  Confused, much?

Downing is not the equivalent of Henderson and Carroll which is why Liverpool won't overpay.

I agree with the first part, which is why the second part makes no sense.  Absolutely 100% spot on that Downing isn't the equivalent of Henderson or Carroll.  He's infinitely better - to date. As far as potential/ resale value goes too, It's not as if he's on his last legs either, with no room for improvement. He's 26.

Precisely. What a load of bollocks.
You can over pay for Henderson and Carroll, two young English players, but when it comes to Downing, a youngish english player, its completely different.
Is it because it's more expensive to shop in the North East?
No, I dont think so.

[hilts_coolerking]

... say what you want about Randy/Faulkner they haven't let us down at all when selling our better players.

This was intended as irony, surely?

Why? Getting what might amount to being 90-100 million for 4 players is good for players that want out. I'd have been upset if we took any less or if the players all wanted to stay and they sold them. That wasn't the case.

If he'd got that money for selling our fringe players, then I'd be very happy.  But any schmuck with half an ounce of business sense can make money selling quality English players.  The money's no good to us in the bank, we need it out on the pitch if we're ever going to challenge again.

Not only does selling our best players weaken us, it makes the clubs we're trying to catch even stronger.

[adrenachrome]

I think the point that was being made was that Doug would have taken the first offer on the table, at least this lot don't roll over and take whatever is on offer.

They still take the money, though. That's the problem.

As has been pointed out before, for players that want out.

True.

But the pattern seems to be that  as soon as they are generally regarded as too good for us, they want out.

[Greg N'Ash]

I think the point that was being made was that Doug would have taken the first offer on the table, at least this lot don't roll over and take whatever is on offer.

They still take the money, though. That's the problem.

So what exactly would you have done differently?

well i'm guessing they thought they'd be in the top4 before the bills hit the doormat seeing how much money they threw at it. the mythical 5 year plan maybe? What would i have done differently? got a better manager.

[pauliewalnuts]

I think the point that was being made was that Doug would have taken the first offer on the table, at least this lot don't roll over and take whatever is on offer.

They still take the money, though. That's the problem.

As has been pointed out before, for players that want out.

As I sad earlier, the problem is that we can't convince them to not want out.

And who can blame them, quite frankly, with the shambles of the last year culminating in a managerial appointment that reeks of giving up.

The sad thing is, I don't blame Downing for wanting out. I would too.

The "Arsenal lose players too" argument is a bit of a red herring. Everyone knows that all clubs lose players. Our problem is that we are fast establishing ourselves as the poster boy of fogging your best players every year. In that respect, we have far more in common with Wigan than we do Arsenal.

That is why it is crucial that we hold on to Downing. Not because he's a world class player. He isn't.

Because the last year has seen the momentum behind this club start to slide in the wrong direction, and we need to do something to arrest that, right now. Flogging Downing will do nothing but speed up that decline.

[Toronto Villa]

... say what you want about Randy/Faulkner they haven't let us down at all when selling our better players.

This was intended as irony, surely?

Why? Getting what might amount to being 90-100 million for 4 players is good for players that want out. I'd have been upset if we took any less or if the players all wanted to stay and they sold them. That wasn't the case.

If he'd got that money for selling our fringe players, then I'd be very happy.  But any schmuck with half an ounce of business sense can make money selling quality English players.  The money's no good to us in the bank, we need it out on the pitch if we're ever going to challenge again.

Not only does selling our best players weaken us, it makes the clubs we're trying to catch even stronger.

I've made it very clear that I very much share your position. Our failure has been how that money was reinvested. Spurs found a way out of a similar position we're in when they sold Berbatov, Carrick, Keane and yet got stronger. We had a huge chance when sat 4th to make the leap and didn't and we've suffered ever since. Arsenal might be in danger of finding out what that's like if they don't reinvest the money they'll get from losing 4 or 5 top players this summer.

[Redman]

Hands up, who's in the mood for bindippers coming here and telling us what our players are worth and what their piss taking club will or will not pay?
Oh yes, delightful.

It's the curious logic of it all that I find most enjoyable.
 
Overpaid. But 'on their terms.'  Confused, much?

Downing is not the equivalent of Henderson and Carroll which is why Liverpool won't overpay.

I agree with the first part, which is why the second part makes no sense.  Absolutely 100% spot on that Downing isn't the equivalent of Henderson or Carroll.  He's infinitely better - to date. As far as potential/ resale value goes too, It's not as if he's on his last legs either, with no room for improvement. He's 26.

Liverpool's strategy is perfectly logical. It doesn't help the debate to suggest otherwise simply because you aren't in favour of it.

Clearly, Liverpool are valuing potential higher than they are proven ability. As Downing is also infinitely better than Albrighton, presumably you'd value the youngster at a lot less too?

[pauliewalnuts]

I think the point that was being made was that Doug would have taken the first offer on the table, at least this lot don't roll over and take whatever is on offer.

They still take the money, though. That's the problem.

So what exactly would you have done differently?

I wouldn't sell Downing, which is what this whole debate is about.

I'd also not have made a managerial appointment that has zero ambition written all over it, I'd have made one that would galvanise the club, rather than mark it out as one which has given up trying, which in itself makes players more likely to want to leave.

I can't change any of that, but as a fan, I can't see why on earth even the mst conformist of our fans would find any satisfaction in the fact we are so good at flogging our best players.

[KevinGage]

For me, the root cause of all this can be traced back to Barry leading the way.

Our captain at the time -and in a period when we were on the up remember- hired an agent to get him a move as far back as Oct/ Nov 2007. Just after he started to make the regular England starting XI. He thought he had his move in the summer of 08, but the Rafa couldn't find any more loose change behind the sofa so he had to stick it out for an extra 12 months with us.

All the players that have left since I could understand, particularly Ash -though it galls me to think about him as part of that rancid Axis of Evil.

Milner had a falling out with MON post Chelsea away and took what he believed to be the better long term bet. The money probably helped too, of course.

But Barry engaged in all the 'proud history bright future' bobbins in the summer of 2007 and was then planning an exit strategy soon after. Despite the money RL had invested in the squad post 2006-  indeed the money he invested every summer up until GB's eventual departure in 2009.

[hilts_coolerking]

I've made it very clear that I very much share your position. Our failure has been how that money was reinvested. Spurs found a way out of a similar position we're in when they sold Berbatov, Carrick, Keane and yet got stronger. We had a huge chance when sat 4th to make the leap and didn't and we've suffered ever since. Arsenal might be in danger of finding out what that's like if they don't reinvest the money they'll get from losing 4 or 5 top players this summer.

Exactly right.  Getting the money is the easy bit, spending it and spending it well are the things that will get my praise, if we do them.  What we should do with the Young / Downing money is spend it on two c. £18M rated players, like Bent.  The impact he has had on the club should tell Randy something.

But I'm not holding my breath.  As paulie says, appointing McLeish isn't a statement of intent, unless your intent is to piddle along in mid-table not losing money.

[Toronto Villa]

I think the point that was being made was that Doug would have taken the first offer on the table, at least this lot don't roll over and take whatever is on offer.

They still take the money, though. That's the problem.

As has been pointed out before, for players that want out.

As I sad earlier, the problem is that we can't convince them to not want out.

And who can blame them, quite frankly, with the shambles of the last year culminating in a managerial appointment that reeks of giving up.

The sad thing is, I don't blame Downing for wanting out. I would too.

The "Arsenal lose players too" argument is a bit of a red herring. Everyone knows that all clubs lose players. Our problem is that we are fast establishing ourselves as the poster boy of fogging your best players every year. In that respect, we have far more in common with Wigan than we do Arsenal.

That is why it is crucial that we hold on to Downing. Not because he's a world class player. He isn't.

Because the last year has seen the momentum behind this club start to slide in the wrong direction, and we need to do something to arrest that, right now. Flogging Downing will do nothing but speed up that decline.

The Downing one is the biggest disappointment of the 4 for me. Barry (eventually) and Milner went for the money and the fact that Man City were being stupid in the transfer money with untold wealth at their disposal, and fully understand Ash when Man U come calling. I agree with you about Downing, and I don't understand why all of a sudden he needs to go to a non CL club unless the money is stupid. Something's happened in the background, and the club will be well within it's right to hold firm on the player's demand or the amount of money they want to part ways with him. Just like they did with Barry. The question is what benefit is there to hanging on to the player? Spurs will be under massive pressure to keep Modric and even Bale, and I don't think they'll be able to keep both.

[Mazrim]

You see, this is why Ive been saying we should just throw most of the money behind scouting and academies.
Every season we have gobshites that we've spent a lot of time and money on mooning over other clubs, usually after playing cards with other gobshites at Club England. At least getting players through the club at an early age and keeping them for more than a couple of seasons may (may) give them a sense of what it is to be an Aston Villa player. And if that doesnt work then I'm done with this game until such time as the culture changes or reverts back to what it used to be.
I'm past caring which player is off now to be honest. I'm begining to despise footballers. But I want what due if they are to be sold.

[Redman]

You see, this is why Ive been saying we should just throw most of the money behind scouting and academies.
Every season we have gobshites that we've spent a lot of time and money on mooning over other clubs, usually after playing cards with other gobshites at Club England. At least getting players through the club at an early age and keeping them for more than a couple of seasons may (may) give them a sense of what it is to be an Aston Villa player. And if that doesnt work then I'm done with this game until such time as the culture changes or reverts back to what it used to be.
I'm past caring which player is off now to be honest. I'm begining to despise footballers. But I want what due if they are to be sold.

Agree with that.

Now is a good opportunity to invest in youth with the NextGen champions league as a carrot.