Summer transfer rumours, speculation and out-and-out b*ll*cks.

[andyh]

I don't understand how it appears that Houllier is now not quite 'that bad' for us.
We have won 5 league games since December.
We are still talking about having to win at least 2 more games to avoid relegation.

I'm sorry, but for me Houllier is an unmitigated disaster and I'll be more than happy to see him move out.

   

[eastie]

Im not houlliers biggest fan by any means but credit should be given when due, i think makoun will be a great signing once fully settled and bent is a player we have lacked for years , a natural goalscorer.

All managers will have selections we disagree with but my biggest problem was lack of ambition shown in the fa cup at man city-that simply was disgraceful
 
I would be happy to give houllier till xmas at least and see where he takes us but equally i would be happy to see him step upstairs if moyes or someone of that ilk came in to replace him.

There have been times ive felt houllier must go but on reflection we could still finish top 10 and considering the problems this season that would be an achievement in itself.

[not3bad]

I don't understand how it appears that Houllier is now not quite 'that bad' for us.   

Some people were sticking up for Houllier all along and they still are.

[KevinGage]

With the squad of players we now have compared to 2006, mid table should be the absolute minimum we achieve. In truth, it's still probably under achieving. 

You look at a team like Tottenham who have barely kept a clean sheet all season (and have only scored 4 more goals than us) and Liverpool - who didn't get their act together until the second half of the campaign-  the scope was there to compete for the same ground we've occupied in previous years; 5/6.  4th looks like it will take a far lower points total than normal too. Losing Milner was obviously a huge blow, but: If someone had said at the start of the season we'd have Ireland, Bent and Makoun in his place, I think most would feel the squad overall had been strengthened. Whilst it's true that we didn't have the latter available until Jan, you would have expected some upturn in form at the very least since then. It hasn't happened.


We might yet go on to secure the heady heights of midtable this year (what a fantastic job GH has done in downgrading expectations) but it will require putting together the sort of run we haven't managed all season.

[Concrete John]

Which can be countered by the amount of injuries this season and the much better working conditions O'Neill enjoyed, with the club united in post-Doug euphoria and the media eulogising over him.

Much of that euphoria Martin generated himself by the excellent early season nu-beaten run (10 games was it?) and his positive attitude about everything that the players and fans responded to. 

As for the injuries it's all subjective, but on balance over the 38 games Gezza has had better players to call upon, so I don't think the early season injuries balances that out personally. 
 

[dave.woodhall]

Which can be countered by the amount of injuries this season and the much better working conditions O'Neill enjoyed, with the club united in post-Doug euphoria and the media eulogising over him.

Much of that euphoria Martin generated himself by the excellent early season nu-beaten run (10 games was it?) and his positive attitude about everything that the players and fans responded to. 

As for the injuries it's all subjective, but on balance over the 38 games Gezza has had better players to call upon, so I don't think the early season injuries balances that out personally. 
 

Doug went, Randy arrived. That's why everyone was so united. I can't remember Martin in his first season having to start with players like Baker, Lichaj and Hogg, and it's stretching the truth to say the injury problems were just early in this season. I'm not saying it's been anything other than poor, but maybe a bit of perspective is called for. 

[Mazrim]

I know it's going off at a tangent, but in O'Neill's first season we finished 11th. We're currently two points off ninth. If we make up those points and finish higher in Gzza's first season than we did in Martin's, what does that say about the ability of either manager?

Such a comparison is only valid if you take into account the players each had to work with and it's a much stronger squad now than in 06/07.

Which can be countered by the amount of injuries this season and the much better working conditions O'Neill enjoyed, with the club united in post-Doug euphoria and the media eulogising over him.

And he had some pre season with his squad.

I still remember that long run without many points in MON's first season. The R word was mentioned a few times then too, even after a good January window. Sounds familiar.

[TheSandman]

I'm far from delighted with Houllier for a number of reasons and am hoping that he is gone at the end of the season but to criticise his signings is wide of the mark. We've got one excellent player and a couple of others who will be proven more than decent given time. Bradley hasn't really had much of a chance yet and to write him off after one bad performance in a massively weakened team is a bit much. You can question the value in signing Pires but not the idea at it's heart.

In fact I'd go as far as to say that his signings are one of the few things he's got right so far and to criticise it is very wide of the mark.

[Concrete John]

Which can be countered by the amount of injuries this season and the much better working conditions O'Neill enjoyed, with the club united in post-Doug euphoria and the media eulogising over him.

Much of that euphoria Martin generated himself by the excellent early season nu-beaten run (10 games was it?) and his positive attitude about everything that the players and fans responded to. 

As for the injuries it's all subjective, but on balance over the 38 games Gezza has had better players to call upon, so I don't think the early season injuries balances that out personally. 
 

Doug went, Randy arrived. That's why everyone was so united. I can't remember Martin in his first season having to start with players like Baker, Lichaj and Hogg, and it's stretching the truth to say the injury problems were just early in this season. I'm not saying it's been anything other than poor, but maybe a bit of perspective is called for.

I'm all for perspective, but if we're looking at it over the whole 38 games then the average strength of the team Houllier put out, compared to MON in 06/07, is far stronger.  We'll have had a full season of Ash, compared to half a season when he was just finding his feet.  Bent/Carew for half a season each compared to Angel for a full season.

The injuries impacted us for a set number of games, but not enough to balance out the much better players available when they were fit, IMO.   

[KevinGage]

Didn't MON have to contend with a fair amount of injuries that season too? Bouma and Baros weren't available for a large chunk of the first half of the campaign. We lost Sutton- who had broken through to the starting XI and was starting to become crucial to our style of play- to a career ending injury in Dec; and we had that wally with the baggy pants in goal when Sorensen was out.

Ridgewell and Cahill also featured quite a bit in that campaign, as Laursen was coming back in fits and starts from a long term injury.

So purely on injuries/ lack of first teamers available, I'd say it was about even, albeit stretched over a slightly longer period in MON's case. As John points out though, he had plenty of credit in the bank due to our good start to the campaign that year. Going to the Emirates and giving it a go, for example. That was more than just being fortunate enough to be the first manager on the books post Ellis and enjoying an extended honeymoon period. There was a positivity about the place, it's true. But MON played a big part in that. It might have taken a severe dent had we taken a few batterings in that early part of the season, or been subjected to some Hollier-esque antics. I can't think of any period in our history when such behaviour and odd decisions could have had anything other than a negative impact.

[dave.woodhall]

I'm all for perspective, but if we're looking at it over the whole 38 games then the average strength of the team Houllier put out, compared to MON in 06/07, is far stronger.  We'll have had a full season of Ash, compared to half a season when he was just finding his feet.  Bent/Carew for half a season each compared to Angel for a full season.

The injuries impacted us for a set number of games, but not enough to balance out the much better players available when they were fit, IMO.   

To say O'Neill had worse injuries than Houlier is definitely stretching a point. Even against Wolves we had a makeshift back four and while I'm not saying 2006-07 was as bad as this season, I do think it's wrong to say everything was great then and everything's awful now.

[Dante Lavelli]

I think by and large the signings GH have been okay however my bugbear with him is

- Playing Gabby as a winger
- AY in the hole
- Sending bannan and the Fonz on loan
- Signing and playing Pires
- Surrendering the FA Cup and then not being able to understand why we were pissed off
- Touching the Liverpool sign and disrespecting the Villa Fans who had travelled
- Standing on the touchline during the home defeat against Sunderland and not having a fucking clue what to do next
- Not playing Albrighton enough
- Playing Downing on the right wing
- Giving it the big un about Collins and Dunne then playing them both at the next opportunity (What has happened to Cuellar?)

So you day you don't want him any where near our club but nearly all those problems would be removed if he took a director's role. Utilising his experience and contacts (Risso he's worked in football for god knows how many years, he must have some contacts) and ensuring that the infrastructure of the club is working.

I'm not sure Moyes would be my choice but the partnership could work as Moyes seems good at the man management side and motivation (areas where Houllier is arguably weak).

[WikiVilla]

I know it's going off at a tangent, but in O'Neill's first season we finished 11th. We're currently two points off ninth. If we make up those points and finish higher in Gzza's first season than we did in Martin's, what does that say about the ability of either manager?

Poor analogy, MON inherited a crock of shite yet got them organised, motivated and playing as a team from day 1
GH was given a squad full of expensively assembled seasoned internationals and has struggled to convince anyone he know's what he's doing, players, fans & the media

[hartman_1982]

I disagree. I think if anything GED has been too brave in trying to change the way we play over night however, I do like the style of play he is aiming for. It is far more entertaining than anything MON produced. He has done things that have annoyed me (Shitty and The bindippers) but I think with the predicament the club are in regarding the wage bill, there aren't many people with better connections than GED. I think he deserves a full pre season, without the trouble makers , and then I will judge him on his merits.

[WikiVilla]

brave or stupid, its a matter of opinion i guess