Doubting Randy?

[garyshawsknee]

It's a shame that some supporters believe what they read in the papers. Especially when its written by the O'Neill fan club.

The amount of ex players,press who have come out recently stating that they cant believe Randy didnt give this money to O'Neill,their blindness to the facts is amazing.

[lordmcgrath5]

There is an alternate view: after the largesse of the MON years, Randy did indeed plan on paring back the spending on playing staff.  He perhaps thought that a combination of  the young players coming through, and a manager supposedly with a finger on the pulse of the European scene yielding some relatively cheap buys, would suffice.

He then surveys the scene in January.  Piss-poor performances on the pitch and a club free-falling towards relegation.  He looks at the spreadsheets and sees what life in the Championship would do the value of his investment and the projected fall in income.

He then does the mother of all U-turns and tells Houllier to get spending. 

This is a pragmatic decision about protecting his investment, rather than a declaration of an undying love for the Villa.

A very plausible take on things, in my view. Not necessarily true, but plausible nonetheless.

[sfx412]

I don't think it proves any such thing but if it did it wouldn't reflect well on Randy. If he doubts about MON he should have done something about it, why would he just let things drift instead?

The issue was always about wages.

I doubt any Mon fan would expect a man to be honest, honourable and willing to stick with someone even if he thought things were not as viable as he'd like.

[Concrete John]

THis is as good a place as any to mention this, but does anyone else agree with me the wages situation isn't any better now than they were when MON walked?

Harewood had already gone.
Milner's and Ireland's wages were reported to be roughly the same.
We've lost Shorey and Sidwell (£90,000 a week?), but this is almost taken up by Bent alone, then there's Makoun and a relatively small amount for Walker.

So maybe Randy has had some sort of rethink as the likes of Beye and Davies are still drawing a wage and our overall bill has increased?

[Risso]

It's all very well blaming O'Neill for everything, and while I obviously wasn't his biggest fan, it was Randy writing the cheques for people like Beye.  £40K a week for three years for a 31 year old reserve, when we already had Luke Young and Cuellar playing in that position.  If his relationship with O'Neill wasn't strong enough to question that kind of madness, then he should have sacked the manager earlier and possibly prevented the situation we find ourselves in at the moment.

[Mazrim]

The wage bill is one thing, what those players are doing to earn it was another and then wanting more players on big money when so many were earning big money for nothing another still.
Our turnover will have increased by a fair amount in 09/10 compared to the year previous.

I'm guessing that the wage bill was outrageous but possibly just about acceptable to Randy but what we were getting for that wage bill was not.

[fredm]

Yes, John, as of today it is about the same (I think) but I expect there to be some leaving VP whether on loan or sale before 31st which will reduce it and also I think Randy has seen who will be leaving in May (either sold or out of contract) and what that will do for the wage bill.

I think he is looking at the usage of those players in the squad as to whether the wage bill is justified which is what most people believe was the problem in August.  If the usage is correct then I am sure steps will be taken to upgrade income so that the percentage level of wages to income is reduced.

Will be interesting to see what next seasons ticket prices are?

[Shrek]

Stan Collymore was on talksport last night.

He was at Villa Park for the press conference, he said he spoke to Randy Lerner and asked him aboutbthe Bent deal.

Stan was worried that spending this much now might compromise our spending power in the long term, Randy said NO

This is great news and proves Randy is here to stay!

We have basically swapped Milner for Ireland and Bent, if we can sell Ireland jobs a
Gooden.

[Concrete John]

The wage bill is one thing, what those players are doing to earn it was another and then wanting more players on big money when so many were earning big money for nothing another still.
Our turnover will have increased by a fair amount in 09/10 compared to the year previous.

I'm guessing that the wage bill was outrageous but possibly just about acceptable to Randy but what we were getting for that wage bill was not.

See, that makes sense, but if you follow it through I doubt MON wanted the likes of McGeady and Keane as reserves, so it still goes back to the notion that Randy is trusting Gezza more.  Maybe not in terms of who he signs, but how he uses them and the squad as a whole.

And I still think the whole 'what we get for the money' is the results on the pitch and not our opinion of the squad.   

[Holtenderinthesky]

Stan Collymore was on talksport last night.

He was at Villa Park for the press conference, he said he spoke to Randy Lerner and asked him aboutbthe Bent deal.

Stan was worried that spending this much now might compromise our spending power in the long term, Randy said NO

This is great news and proves Randy is here to stay!

We have basically swapped Milner for Ireland and Bent, if we can sell Ireland jobs a
Gooden.

Stan should've asked Randy this before he went on national radio on Monday night screaming and shouting the odds.  He was pissing almost every Villa fan off with his "eggs in one basket" analogy, despite not having a clue what he was talking about.  I'd love to have seen is very punchable face when Randy told him there was more money in kitty.

[pauliewalnuts]

I don't know what the wages situation is now, if it is better or worse, but I would imagine that Randy realises he can't expect a new manager to come in and tackle it immediately by lopping off wages, more a case of something to work towards, and a plan how to do it.

That may involve the bill going up initially but down later on, as players are moved on

[pauliewalnuts]

Stan Collymore was on talksport last night.

He was at Villa Park for the press conference, he said he spoke to Randy Lerner and asked him aboutbthe Bent deal.

Stan was worried that spending this much now might compromise our spending power in the long term, Randy said NO

This is great news and proves Randy is here to stay!

We have basically swapped Milner for Ireland and Bent, if we can sell Ireland jobs a
Gooden.

Stan should've asked Randy this before he went on national radio on Monday night screaming and shouting the odds.  He was pissing almost every Villa fan off with his "eggs in one basket" analogy, despite not having a clue what he was talking about.  I'd love to have seen is very punchable face when Randy told him there was more money in kitty.

Slight tangent, but i heard Kevin Phillips on the radio this morning backtracking massively from his reaction of Monday.

[Concrete John]

I don't know what the wages situation is now, if it is better or worse, but I would imagine that Randy realises he can't expect a new manager to come in and tackle it immediately by lopping off wages, more a case of something to work towards, and a plan how to do it.

That may involve the bill going up initially but down later on, as players are moved on

It makes sense and is the sort of practical approach you'd expect from Randy.

I'm perfectly happy with him backing Gezza, but I do think we need to realise he has moved the goalposts slightly from what (we believe) MON was aksed to do in the summer.

[pauliewalnuts]

I don't know what the wages situation is now, if it is better or worse, but I would imagine that Randy realises he can't expect a new manager to come in and tackle it immediately by lopping off wages, more a case of something to work towards, and a plan how to do it.

That may involve the bill going up initially but down later on, as players are moved on

It makes sense and is the sort of practical approach you'd expect from Randy.

I'm perfectly happy with him backing Gezza, but I do think we need to realise he has moved the goalposts slightly from what (we believe) MON was aksed to do in the summer.

If he has, it is probably because we've found ourselves with a new manager at late notice - asking a manager who has worked with the squad for four years to trim the wage bill is one thing.

Asking a manager to come in at short notice, get the team playing his way AND trim the wage bill immediately is a totally different thing.

[Mazrim]

The thing is John, any good chairman, CEO etc will look at the business and see where expenses are going and how they can be better used. In no way is buying a player for several million pounds, paying them 50k a week for three or four years and not using them acceptable, especially when you have a much vaunted youth system.
Of all the things I liked about MON, how he used the squad and his transfer dealings in general were not amongst them.

Now, if Randy can be criticised for anything, and he's not perfect, its giving MON too much power in who he bought and particularly what he paid for them.
Its fair enough to a degree because this is his first football club and MON was a name with enough clout to expect to know what he's doing. Randy probably felt that he had his own opinions but MON obviously knew better so gave him his headroom.
Well it hasnt turned out so. He made a few brilliant if predictable signings but mostly, in hindsight, you'd have to say the money was inappropriately used. Or at least I would.
So I can see why he was, if not reined in, asked to clean up his own mess. Put some toys away to make room for any new ones he was getting out.

In the end, something had to give and it was MON's apparent petulance and refusal to do a bit of housekeeping that made itself known first. I believe Randy would have given him time to do this and supported him but got his arse in his hands and moped about all summer, the pre-season games were a real eye opener, we were pathetic. And then, at the worst possible time, he decided to walk away rather than sort his own mess out and was quite happy to let the blame and media idiocy fall on Randy who has never done anything but support him. Not only that but he showed no regard to us or how we'd cope. What a complete wanker.

Never have I lost so much respect for one person, so quickly.