The difference between o neill and houllier

[Concrete John]

It's far too simplistic to put it all down to motivation, that won't keep you in the top 6 for three years on the bounce. Wee were well organised, we had some very good players who knew their jobs and what their role was within the team. That's somethingbthat gets ignored by many, there's a world of difference between having the best players and having the best team.

I agree Chris and we have lost Barry Laursen Milner all players that could influence a game, we are lacking a focal point in the team now which is a big problem. Our inactivity in the summer and the limited opportunity to appoint a manager is the prime cause of our predicament.

See, I don't get this 'limited opportunity' argument.  Actually no - I do 'get it', but I just don't agree with it.

Had we panicked and got someone in during those 5 days before the West Ham game then fair enough, but we didn't and instead took our time.  The key to the whole recruitment process seemed to be who applied, which to me is wrong.  They should have sat down and said "Who do we want?" and then made an approach, whether they are in a job or not.  Someone like Moyes would have been top of my list and as unfair to everton as that may be, we have to look out for Villa first and foremost.

Now, I know some on here will be bursting to post "How do you know they didn't?" and of course I don't know that, but my argument is they could have done given the time between MON walking and Gezza coming in, so therefore calling it a 'limited opportunity' is wrong, IMO.

[sfx412]

If MON had been after Makoun, he'd have been signed, in the shirt, on the pitch, and consigned to a lifetime on the bench by now.

a rewrite of history attempt?

Its January 14., I doubt Mon would have switched on his phone yet.

[sfx412]

'How do you know they didn't'.

As I recall both Moyes, hughes and Jol all made it clear they wouldn't leave their jobs.
Why it assumed Villa can just pick who they want when they want ? For all you know JohnM Mourinho was Lerners first choice but when approached he said no thanks.
Oh for the days of Ellis and his selection policies. Would Mon have caught him out

[Ger Regan]

The idea of MON spending money as if he's had the keys to the petty cash tin without anyone knowing is surely in the remit of PF.

Maybe I'm getting the wrong end of the stick with your post, but isn't this precisely one of the reasons he walked in the end?

[Concrete John]

And that's my point - were we to try and get a manager in a job it's a longer process with approaches to the club first and compensation needing to be agreed.  We had time to do all that, but from what little was made public we seemed not to.  So the 'limited opportunity' notion is one I do not buy into.

[Bosco81]

The idea of MON spending money as if he's had the keys to the petty cash tin without anyone knowing is surely in the remit of PF.

Maybe I'm getting the wrong end of the stick with your post, but isn't this precisely one of the reasons he walked in the end?

The point I was attempting to make was why it took so long for us to realise that the wages to turnover ratio was getting a little out of hand, surely we have budgets to stick to.

[Bosco81]

And that's my point - were we to try and get a manager in a job it's a longer process with approaches to the club first and compensation needing to be agreed.  We had time to do all that, but from what little was made public we seemed not to.  So the 'limited opportunity' notion is one I do not buy into.

I agree with you John but the only fly in the ointment is that all the likely people on our wish list in August have hardly pulled up any trees since, especially at a time when the club are trying to get the spending under check which has made us less attractive to potential managers.

[sfx412]

As I heard (Gen. k ) Randy was flying (in his jet) all over speaking to those candidates that had been identified by a specialist organisation, paid to do so.
Normally owners tend to agree a shortlist usually at a time out of season then sack their existing manager.
Thanks to Mons carefully planned departure they had no time and a limited list of managers. On paper a man who had successfully managed several clubs a winner of real trophies, wasn't a bad choice.

[Ger Regan]

The point I was attempting to make was why it took so long for us to realise that the wages to turnover ratio was getting a little out of hand, surely we have budgets to stick to.

Who knows? Maybe they were speculating to accumulate, and trusted MON to get us to the Champions League, where the extra revenue would have offset the high wages. When the CL place started to look less and less likely, then the brakes were put on? Obviously this is just a possible reason, but seems plausible to me.

[TimTheVillain]

As I heard (Gen. k )
Thanks to Mons carefully planned departure they had no time and a limited list of managers. On paper a man who had successfully managed several clubs a winner of real trophies, wasn't a bad choice.

I don't think it was carefully planned - I think it was an act of impetuousness.

Anyway, one's Irish - the other's French.

There's a difference for you !

[Concrete John]

On paper a man who had successfully managed several clubs a winner of real trophies, wasn't a bad choice.

True, yet we can often say players look like good signings 'on paper' when they come in, yet will still blame the manager if they turn out to be crap.  As an example, I saw very little grumblings when we were after Stephen Warnock.  In the same way the board should be judged for the sucess, or lack thereof, of the manager they chose..

[eastie]

If we survive this season which I'm confident we will do I would expect houllier over his 3 years in charge to achieve more than mon did during his 4 years - we just need to get through this season and I'm sure in the summer he will make many changes and we will be a better team to watch and also achieve results.

Houllier has a far better record as a manager than o neill over his career and although he may be older he has much more modern methods than his predecessor.

[Concrete John]

If we survive this season which I'm confident we will do I would expect houllier over his 3 years in charge to achieve more than mon did during his 4 years

I hope you're right as the only way he can really do that is to win a trophy or get 4th.  OK, 5th would be better, but hardly 'achieving' anything more.

[Bosco81]

If we survive this season which I'm confident we will do I would expect houllier over his 3 years in charge to achieve more than mon did during his 4 years - we just need to get through this season and I'm sure in the summer he will make many changes and we will be a better team to watch and also achieve results.

Houllier has a far better record as a manager than o neill over his career and although he may be older he has much more modern methods than his predecessor.

That's a decent point, I think non Villa people looking in think we over achieved in the last few years as a result of MON, but I think we under achieved under him given the funds he was allowed access to.

Whether Houllier is the man to improve on MON's record is going to take a pretty large leap of faith at the moment though.

[Villa'Zawg]

If we survive this season which I'm confident we will do I would expect houllier over his 3 years in charge to achieve more than mon did during his 4 years - we just need to get through this season and I'm sure in the summer he will make many changes and we will be a better team to watch and also achieve results.

Houllier has a far better record as a manager than o neill over his career and although he may be older he has much more modern methods than his predecessor.

Venglos/Taylor


There should never, ever have been a question of whether we could survive this season after finishing on 64 points last season. Even under Venglos we only flirted with relegation towards the very end of the season and were never actually in the bottom 3 .