The problem with the Dunne & Collins pair

[TheSandman]

I still have palpitations thinking about the some of the partnerships we had during 05/06. Admittedly, Mellberg and Cahill were good players but at the time Ridgewell could defend with such fuckwittedness that it would make a partnership with God look slightly ropey.

[KevinGage]

Agree that the defence has been our Achilles heel this year, but if you're picking defenders based even partly on distribution Cuellar wouldn't get a look in, as he's about the worst of the lot.

As an earlier poster said too, Collins when he first arrived had the reputation of a CB capable of passing the ball from the back. I was dubious when we first signed him but most West Ham fans I spoke to said we'd got an absolute bargain, only injuries have held him back.

He's been iffy this season, but it can't have helped having a player like Dunne regressing with each game next to you, and needing nursemading - as per the Mellberg/ Ridgewell partnership in 2005/06.

[WikiVilla]

Carl Tiler
Andy Comyn

There's a couple of names to throw into the blender

[willywombat]

Not even close to being our worst central defensive partnership!!

Edit:Apologies Archie, I see you've explained later in the thread that you were exagerrating

[WikiVilla]

Can we chan the thread title? It's disrespectful particularly on the back of the effort put in yesterday

[Archie]

Can we chan the thread title? It's disrespectful particularly on the back of the effort put in yesterday

Just done it. . .
I didn't mean to be disrepecteful though, only to remark that we were on the edge to lose the empteen just won game due to the fact the central pair concedes always one, two, three or more chances every game, so it'all question of time when we capitulate.
Most have reacted as if our defence were the first for number of goals conceded, whereas we are the last, so I din't think to have said an heresy.
I'm also convinced that the results orient many valuations, and that if Clark wouldn't have equalized many would have reconsidered how we have conceded the first two goals.

Normally I'm on the same wavelenghth as the H&V members, but this time I really can't understand how the majority can be happy with a similar pair of CB.

We are Aston Villa, not Scunthorpe, we can't limit to belt the ball clear when we are under pressure.

In the Chronicles of John Lerwill I read that even in 1904 we tried to build the play either "with an exchange of short passing" or through the wingers. . .

[ktvillan]

I'm another one that's a bit surprised at the amount of praise the defence are getting for yesterday's game. 

There were plusses -  they tried to get back to basics and make us hard to break down, which was working pretty well, Collins' reckless challenge aside, until the 80th minute. They also worked hard and looked like they were up for it, and we certainly didn't surrender and look porous from the first 5 minutes like the previous couple of away games.  I don't think distribution was uppermost in their minds, and I doubt Carlos at CB would be an improvement in that respect.

However the collapse in the last 10 minutes was utterly predictable and as others have said we still conceded 3 against a side that have been misfiring badly for the last month or more.  We still have players ball watching instead of marking (see Clarke watching Dunne miss the header for the second goal while Kalou was sneaking round his back), and still have two or three players all bombing towards the player in possession leaving huge gaps for the other opponents (see Terry's goal).  It's the kind of stuff I was taught as a schoolboy not to do, and it's why we had to rely on 2 or 3 superb stops from Friedel to keep us in it. 

I think the forwards and midfielders should take a lot of the credit for getting us three goals, but I wonder   how much of the praise would have been forthcoming if the late equalizer hadn't happened. 

[Phil from the upper holte]

I think they both did well today, I still think the pen was harsh.

They weren't perfect but its something to build on. Some people are never happy

[KevinGage]

I'm another one that's a bit surprised at the amount of praise the defence are getting for yesterday's game. 

There were plusses -  they tried to get back to basics and make us hard to break down, which was working pretty well, Collins' reckless challenge aside, until the 80th minute. They also worked hard and looked like they were up for it, and we certainly didn't surrender and look porous from the first 5 minutes like the previous couple of away games.  I don't think distribution was uppermost in their minds, and I doubt Carlos at CB would be an improvement in that respect.

However the collapse in the last 10 minutes was utterly predictable and as others have said we still conceded 3 against a side that have been misfiring badly for the last month or more.  We still have players ball watching instead of marking (see Clarke watching Dunne miss the header for the second goal while Kalou was sneaking round his back), and still have two or three players all bombing towards the player in possession leaving huge gaps for the other opponents (see Terry's goal).  It's the kind of stuff I was taught as a schoolboy not to do, and it's why we had to rely on 2 or 3 superb stops from Friedel to keep us in it. 

I think the forwards and midfielders should take a lot of the credit for getting us three goals, but I wonder   how much of the praise would have been forthcoming if the late equalizer hadn't happened. 

I agree.

Currently we need to score 2/3 every game to have a hope of getting anything.

[Axl Rose]

Gross exaggeration. I don't mean to be rude but how long have you been following the Villa if you think our current pairing is the worst ever? Presumably you don't remember the mid 80s for example and such luminaries as Brendan Ormsby, Dean Glover, Steve Foster and Paul Elliott to name but four. Or, forgive me, perhaps you're not old enough to...

Oh, Archie is old enough:) although not an old timer! haha...I had the fortune,along with a good friend of mine to be invited to Archies home in Italy to watch the Carling Cup final last year. He,along with his lovely family and friends, were extremely welcoming and impressed me with their knowledge of the Villa! Hey Archie, its Nik, by the way. Long time no see my friend-I was only briefly in Padova, before being sent to Shanghai for work!! happy new year to you!

[Mister E]

At least Dunne looked like he'd been training; actually seemed to have lost some weight yesterday.

[Archie]

Gross exaggeration. I don't mean to be rude but how long have you been following the Villa if you think our current pairing is the worst ever? Presumably you don't remember the mid 80s for example and such luminaries as Brendan Ormsby, Dean Glover, Steve Foster and Paul Elliott to name but four. Or, forgive me, perhaps you're not old enough to...

Oh, Archie is old enough:) although not an old timer! haha...I had the fortune,along with a good friend of mine to be invited to Archies home in Italy to watch the Carling Cup final last year. He,along with his lovely family and friends, were extremely welcoming and impressed me with their knowledge of the Villa! Hey Archie, its Nik, by the way. Long time no see my friend-I was only briefly in Padova, before being sent to Shanghai for work!! happy new year to you!

Nik, what a pleasure to hear from you!
I  wondered where you had finished, and now we have the answer, like Marco Polo you went from Venice to China!
Cheers. . .

[richard moore]

KTV makes a very good point, as ever, about our defenders all rushing towards the attacking player in possession. Noticed it several times yesterday and on numerous other occasions both this and last season...

[old man villa fan]

As they say, defending starts from the front.

The latter part of the season before last we looked terrible at defending as teams just ran through Petrov and Barry.  MON bought Dunne and Collins and everything looked better.  How much was this due to Dunne and Collins or down to having the energy of Milner infront of them to stop the opposition running at them and drawing them out of position.

Yesterday we looked as though we were coping reasonably well in the first half when Petrov and Reo Coker had the energy to cover the middle.  As the energy levels dropped, they naturally started to drop deeper as they couldn't afford to let the Chelsea midfield get behind them.

Yesterday was a very rearguard display with effectively 4 central defenders and 2 wide players protecting the flanks.  It gave us the tightness Houllier was asking for and will serve us in the current situation but we cannot progress off the back of this.  We need a better central midfield and at least one more mobile and solid central defender.  Somebody else touched on it earlier, I do not think Collins and Dunne are particularly good readers of the game.

[garyshawsknee]

At least Dunne looked like he'd been training; actually seemed to have lost some weight yesterday.

I thought that,he looked alot sharper than before,this is what was letting him down at the start of the season,as you dont go from being one of the best defenders from the previous season,to a sunday parks look a like over night.