Gerard Houllier

[Dribbler]

Will we have to also place Gabby in the troublemaking camp now?

If Geddy stays Gabby goes I fear.

Is this the Gabby who signed a new contract six weeks ago, and said he wanted to stay at Villa for life?

Also that same story has been reported elsewhere, without the negative slant, saying that Gabby and Houllier had come to an agreement about his best playing weight. Just the press trying to stir up a story from nothing.

http://msnsport.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11677_6623280,00.html

[Willie Anderson]

This one:

In my years of following Villa I have seen us relegated many times.  Every relegation we suffered had one thing and one thing only in common.  The correction of our faults was left too late.   The incumbent manager was always given too much time and necessary action was left too late to be effective.

Those of you calling people like Glasses and me idiots because we see the writing on the wall blatantly refuse to answer the single simple straightforward question - what single piece of evidence have you seen since Gerard Houllier was appointed our manager which shows him capable of having a better second half of the season than the first?  Has he showed one spark of effectiveness in team motivation? fitness? mental attitude? building team spirit? asserting psychological domination of our opponents? getting the crowd behind the team? team discipline? team tactics? match tactics? team selection? tapping up targeted players like we have to endure from others? instilling self belief into players? instilling a spirit of fighting for every ball right to the final whistle? making match turning substitutions?   There is no evidence of any kind whatsoever that Gerard Houllier, even if he is given the money, can buy his way out of the pit he has dug for himself.

When you can produce  some evidence that Houllier has the ability NOW not at Liverpool or in France when he was in his prime - NOW, to fight off relegation then you can call those of us who do not share your optimism idiots and compare us to Liverpool fans.

One question. Since when did 3 months become too much time?

Since we got 20 points from 19 games

so we're going to blame the 6-0 at Newcastle and elimination from Europe on him also? How about that we didn't actually buy anyone in the summer? How about that one of our "leaders" Richard Dunne has been completely out of shape since the summer, and has made no effort to improve that? How about that Stephen Ireland, a player most of thought could really help us, doesn't give a bollocks about the club? How about that the previous manager decided to pull the shoot just as the season was about to start. Is that down to Houllier also? Are the injuries his fault? How about conceding late goals at Stoke and Fulham. Are they not the responsibility of the players, or is that his fault too? Those 4 points as a starter without considering other games we've conceded late leads put us comfortably in mid-table.

I concede readily that I thought we'd have a few more points and that he's made mistakes. But it's important to consider all other factors as opposed to simply dragging out one stat to support your position in an argument.

-14 Goal Difference worst in the premier, how many stats do you want?.

In my opinion GH was a bad appointment(from the looks of the poll I'm not in the minority by some margin). I was however prepared to give him time, I now fear to give him anymore will decimate the squad(a la Graham Turner) he will bring in foreign youngsters which will displace our own very good homegrown players. So when we get relegated at the end of the season we will have less money with a shitload of disgruntled foreigners we have to ship out when GH finally gets the bullet.

Get rid of NOW let the new guy spend whatever transfer kitty we have & hopefully we will be satified with sixth from bottom at the end of the season

[eastie]

There are only a handful of points between 8 th and 20th- some people are talking as though we are adrift at the bottom- we are getting injuries cleared up and will have new signings next week , things can improve and we are only 2 points off Newcastle and Liverpool- we have every chance of finishing in the top 10 still and I believe our worst days are behind us.

I look forward to seeing the new players coming in and some of o neills trash being shown the door! I would Guess tHat everton and Liverpool fans are feeling just as pissed off at things and they haven't had anything like the problems we have had with injuries or being managerless till sept!

[Lowendbehold]

In the summer 4 new managers were appointed to PL clubs, GH, Hughes, Hodgson and Grant. 

They are each in the process of changing their respective teams to play in the style they want and all of them are under pressure.  None of their teams are performing as well as last season.

They all had the chance to bring players in during the window, except for GH . 

None of them have had serious injury problems, except for GH .

None of them lost their best player during the summer, except for GH.

None of them had to deal with a centre half who decided to eat all the pies during the summer, except for GH.

None wwere confronted by an idiot called Ireland, except for GH.

Most on this thread would have settled for either Hughes or Hodgson to replace MON.

Under the last manager our team had a winning mentality.  That was knocked out of them before GH even got here.

Changing the way a team plays means bringing in new players and upsetting some of the current crop, hence I suspect the performances of all 4 teams.

No one in their right minds would suggest after so few games that Hodgson, Grant or Hughes should be sacked, except some of the fans of those clubs.

So why the hell should GH be sacked? 

[AV82EC]

This one:

In my years of following Villa I have seen us relegated many times.  Every relegation we suffered had one thing and one thing only in common.  The correction of our faults was left too late.   The incumbent manager was always given too much time and necessary action was left too late to be effective.

Those of you calling people like Glasses and me idiots because we see the writing on the wall blatantly refuse to answer the single simple straightforward question - what single piece of evidence have you seen since Gerard Houllier was appointed our manager which shows him capable of having a better second half of the season than the first?  Has he showed one spark of effectiveness in team motivation? fitness? mental attitude? building team spirit? asserting psychological domination of our opponents? getting the crowd behind the team? team discipline? team tactics? match tactics? team selection? tapping up targeted players like we have to endure from others? instilling self belief into players? instilling a spirit of fighting for every ball right to the final whistle? making match turning substitutions?   There is no evidence of any kind whatsoever that Gerard Houllier, even if he is given the money, can buy his way out of the pit he has dug for himself.

When you can produce  some evidence that Houllier has the ability NOW not at Liverpool or in France when he was in his prime - NOW, to fight off relegation then you can call those of us who do not share your optimism idiots and compare us to Liverpool fans.

You are right Legion, it is good food for thought.

I'd like to provide some evidence.  I will freely admit I would have gladly burnt Gerard Houllier on a stake at about 5pm on Tuesday evening, however those were the feelings of a non rational man who was angry and upset at the supposed performance I had just witnessed.

Our football this season has veered between sublime and utterly ridiculous.  The sublime moments have seen things produced unseen since the days of BFR, controlled passing played at pace but unfortunately unable to be sustained for 90 minutes.  Those 30 minutes after half time against Man United were spell binding, I'd include the performance against Fulham and away at Wolves as good solid outings where we got what we deserved in one case and sloppily conceded in the last minute in the other.  The performance away at Spurs was fully deserving of a point but again sloppy defending and attacking cost us.  We somehow managed to lose at Sunderland and Stoke, again that sloppy defending malarkey.  Several performances recently have been woeful but I recall several of those under O'Neill as well.  I can see evidence of the changes he is trying to instil, there was period in the game against Stoke when we ripped them a new one but unfortunately yet again didn't have striker who could stick it in the net.  I realise the above is all odds and sods and he hasn't yet really put together a consistent performance where I could say "yep thats where we're going" and that is frustrating but he's been here three months with a squad stricken by injuries (which he didn't complain about) and has had to turn to young professionals to fill the gaps a situation they've responded to with commendable if inconsistent vigour.  Another thing I'd like to congratulate him on is the challenging of his players to start acting like professionals (Carew, Dunne, Ireland as the prime examples).  There are too many players not willing to take accountability for their failings and their own part in this and I'd hold them equally as culpable as Houllier for the current predicament we find ourselves in.

Now maybe I'm more patient than the average bear but getting rid of him now would be a massive mistake and would lurch us into even deeper trouble IMO.  For my money he has to be given the season anything else smacks of desperation and as Mazrim so wonderfully commented a while ago "fans shaking like a bunch of shitting puppies".  I may be proved wrong and he'll cock the whole thing up and I'd be more than happy to come on here and say I got it wrong but changing our Manager twice in one season isn't, or shouldn't ever be, the Villa way.

I'd also like to know when it became the Managers responsibility to get the fans behind the team?  I thought that was our job and in all honesty we're doing a piss poor job currently as we play the "victim" and point the finger everywhere else but at ourselves and take the piss out of our own players.  I'm as guilty as the next fan at coming on here and moaning about this that and the other but did I play my part, did I raise the roof and get behind the team when they really needed it or did I just sit in my seat and start calling for the Managers head or moan ing at the players efforts.  There's too many people at the Villa currently, board, manager, players AND fans pointing at someone else and saying its there fault when the responsibility lies with all of us.  It disappoints me to see us ripping ourselves apart like this being for or against Houllier what matters is the team and giving them the lift they need. 

I seem to recall in MON's first season we'd been on a long losing run and were 1-0 down to Everton at half time and as I recall it questions were being asked about what the hell he was doing but the crowd didn't start shouting for his head, they came together and lifted the team for a second half comeback and a deserved point.  Its that mentality thats needed now, that feeling of whatever shit we have to put up with from  the board, manager and players, we the fans played our part. 

[sfx412]

In the summer 4 new managers were appointed to PL clubs, GH, Hughes, Hodgson and Grant. 

They are each in the process of changing their respective teams to play in the style they want and all of them are under pressure.  None of their teams are performing as well as last season.

They all had the chance to bring players in during the window, except for GH . 

None of them have had serious injury problems, except for GH .

None of them lost their best player during the summer, except for GH.

None of them had to deal with a centre half who decided to eat all the pies during the summer, except for GH.

None wwere confronted by an idiot called Ireland, except for GH.

Most on this thread would have settled for either Hughes or Hodgson to replace MON.

Under the last manager our team had a winning mentality.  That was knocked out of them before GH even got here.

Changing the way a team plays means bringing in new players and upsetting some of the current crop, hence I suspect the performances of all 4 teams.

No one in their right minds would suggest after so few games that Hodgson, Grant or Hughes should be sacked, except some of the fans of those clubs.

So why the hell should GH be sacked? 

Very nicely put and a very salient point, some should contemplate seriously.#Gone are the days of knee jerk reactions, Ellis has gone, gone are the days, hopefully of over paid useless past it idiots who can't even get their weight right, resulting in a costly inadequate squad.
Now all we need is the blame culture to disappear until there is real cause, say after 2 seasons of expenditure and nothing to show for it.
Assuming of course we avoid relegation

[brian green]

In reply to the question "when is three months too much time?"   My point is that three months is enough to assess the situation.   Six months is too long because if a very major sea change does not occur at Villa Park in the next three months we will be relegated.

It is like the captain of the Titanic telling the passengers that there is at least another hundred yards between us and the iceberg.   Besides the ship is unsinkable and isn't that the California and the Carpathia on the horizon they will rescue us.

As for what I am privy to at Bodymoor Heath there is an old saying that you don't have to go down a coal mine to know that it is dirty and dark.   My opinion that we do not have time for the luxury of being fair to Houllier is based on the facts which stare you in the face.   Goals for, goals against, matches won, matches lost, points won, position in the table, endless negative publicity, endless gaffes like Pires Arsenal love in, his own ecstasy at Anfield, the selction of Delph and Hogg over NRC and Petrov, the dressing room bust ups the confrontational approach to Dunne, Carew, Beye and Ireland, the public comments about loyal young players like Lichaj and telling Nathan he is too skinny to be a striker and Gabby he is too stocky.   He is making it all up as he goes along and it shows.

When the last whistle of the season is blown the Premiership executives don't have a meeting to decide who goes down,   They don't say give the Villa an extra two points because they have had a lot of injuries and another three because their manager flounced off five days before the start of the season.   They look at the table and they read the numbers.   Read them.

[Clampy]

I look forward to seeing the new players coming in and some of o neills trash being shown the door! 

Which 'O'Neil trash' do you have in mind?

[john e]

This one:

In my years of following Villa I have seen us relegated many times.  Every relegation we suffered had one thing and one thing only in common.  The correction of our faults was left too late.   The incumbent manager was always given too much time and necessary action was left too late to be effective.

Those of you calling people like Glasses and me idiots because we see the writing on the wall blatantly refuse to answer the single simple straightforward question - what single piece of evidence have you seen since Gerard Houllier was appointed our manager which shows him capable of having a better second half of the season than the first?  Has he showed one spark of effectiveness in team motivation? fitness? mental attitude? building team spirit? asserting psychological domination of our opponents? getting the crowd behind the team? team discipline? team tactics? match tactics? team selection? tapping up targeted players like we have to endure from others? instilling self belief into players? instilling a spirit of fighting for every ball right to the final whistle? making match turning substitutions?   There is no evidence of any kind whatsoever that Gerard Houllier, even if he is given the money, can buy his way out of the pit he has dug for himself.

When you can produce  some evidence that Houllier has the ability NOW not at Liverpool or in France when he was in his prime - NOW, to fight off relegation then you can call those of us who do not share your optimism idiots and compare us to Liverpool fans.

One question. Since when did 3 months become too much time?

Since we got 20 points from 19 games

so we're going to blame the 6-0 at Newcastle and elimination from Europe on him also? How about that we didn't actually buy anyone in the summer? How about that one of our "leaders" Richard Dunne has been completely out of shape since the summer, and has made no effort to improve that? How about that Stephen Ireland, a player most of thought could really help us, doesn't give a bollocks about the club? How about that the previous manager decided to pull the shoot just as the season was about to start. Is that down to Houllier also? Are the injuries his fault? How about conceding late goals at Stoke and Fulham. Are they not the responsibility of the players, or is that his fault too? Those 4 points as a starter without considering other games we've conceded late leads put us comfortably in mid-table.

I concede readily that I thought we'd have a few more points and that he's made mistakes. But it's important to consider all other factors as opposed to simply dragging out one stat to support your position in an argument.

-14 Goal Difference worst in the premier, how many stats do you want?.

In my opinion GH was a bad appointment(from the looks of the poll I'm not in the minority by some margin). I was however prepared to give him time, I now fear to give him anymore will decimate the squad(a la Graham Turner) he will bring in foreign youngsters which will displace our own very good homegrown players. So when we get relegated at the end of the season we will have less money with a shitload of disgruntled foreigners we have to ship out when GH finally gets the bullet.

Get rid of NOW let the new guy spend whatever transfer kitty we have & hopefully we will be satified with sixth from bottom at the end of the season

i see it exactly opposite to you willie,
i think he will show faith in the young players he has and bring them on building a future Villa side around them hopefully with a few additions,

and then get rid of the overblown toss baskets that we have that dont give a flying f**k about the club,

[Lowendbehold]

In reply to the question "when is three months too much time?"   My point is that three months is enough to assess the situation.   Six months is too long because if a very major sea change does not occur at Villa Park in the next three months we will be relegated.

It is like the captain of the Titanic telling the passengers that there is at least another hundred yards between us and the iceberg.   Besides the ship is unsinkable and isn't that the California and the Carpathia on the horizon they will rescue us.

As for what I am privy to at Bodymoor Heath there is an old saying that you don't have to go down a coal mine to know that it is dirty and dark.   My opinion that we do not have time for the luxury of being fair to Houllier is based on the facts which stare you in the face.   Goals for, goals against, matches won, matches lost, points won, position in the table, endless negative publicity, endless gaffes like Pires Arsenal love in, his own ecstasy at Anfield, the selction of Delph and Hogg over NRC and Petrov, the dressing room bust ups the confrontational approach to Dunne, Carew, Beye and Ireland, the public comments about loyal young players like Lichaj and telling Nathan he is too skinny to be a striker and Gabby he is too stocky.   He is making it all up as he goes along and it shows.

When the last whistle of the season is blown the Premiership executives don't have a meeting to decide who goes down,   They don't say give the Villa an extra two points because they have had a lot of injuries and another three because their manager flounced off five days before the start of the season.   They look at the table and they read the numbers.   Read them.

If you follow that logic, if there is any, then 10 managers in the bottom half will be sacked any time soon.

[Willie Anderson]

No one in their right minds would suggest after so few games that Hodgson, Grant or Hughes should be sacked, except some of the fans of those clubs.

So why the hell should GH be sacked? 

1. I'm not in my right mind I am in a state of abject panic.

2. I'm a fan of Aston Villa FC & I'm calling for the sacking of it's manager, who else would?

3. His lack of tactical know-how,his lack of passion, his inability to change things around, by mostly his appallinging divisivness & man managment skills. The man is a grade A twat, his personality just alienates the people around him & all the while he just pouts & blames anyone but himself.

[eastie]

I do not see friedal, warnock , luke young, dunne, reo- coker, sidwell, ash young, Carew or Ireland being here next season. Of those the only one I'd really miss is ash!

[Clampy]

I do not see friedal, warnock , luke young, dunne, reo- coker, sidwell, ash young, Carew or Ireland being here next season. Of those the only one I'd really miss is ash!

I would'nt argue with any of that, but i would'nt exactly call them trash either.

[avfc_1874]

In the summer 4 new managers were appointed to PL clubs, GH, Hughes, Hodgson and Grant. 

They are each in the process of changing their respective teams to play in the style they want and all of them are under pressure.  None of their teams are performing as well as last season.

They all had the chance to bring players in during the window, except for GH . 

None of them have had serious injury problems, except for GH .

None of them lost their best player during the summer, except for GH.

None of them had to deal with a centre half who decided to eat all the pies during the summer, except for GH.

None wwere confronted by an idiot called Ireland, except for GH.

Most on this thread would have settled for either Hughes or Hodgson to replace MON.

Under the last manager our team had a winning mentality.  That was knocked out of them before GH even got here.

Changing the way a team plays means bringing in new players and upsetting some of the current crop, hence I suspect the performances of all 4 teams.

No one in their right minds would suggest after so few games that Hodgson, Grant or Hughes should be sacked, except some of the fans of those clubs.

So why the hell should GH be sacked? 

Well said. Probably one of the only few sensible posts on this thread.

[john e]

In reply to the question "when is three months too much time?"   My point is that three months is enough to assess the situation.   Six months is too long because if a very major sea change does not occur at Villa Park in the next three months we will be relegated.

It is like the captain of the Titanic telling the passengers that there is at least another hundred yards between us and the iceberg.   Besides the ship is unsinkable and isn't that the California and the Carpathia on the horizon they will rescue us.

As for what I am privy to at Bodymoor Heath there is an old saying that you don't have to go down a coal mine to know that it is dirty and dark.   My opinion that we do not have time for the luxury of being fair to Houllier is based on the facts which stare you in the face.   Goals for, goals against, matches won, matches lost, points won, position in the table, endless negative publicity, endless gaffes like Pires Arsenal love in, his own ecstasy at Anfield, the selction of Delph and Hogg over NRC and Petrov, the dressing room bust ups the confrontational approach to Dunne, Carew, Beye and Ireland, the public comments about loyal young players like Lichaj and telling Nathan he is too skinny to be a striker and Gabby he is too stocky.   He is making it all up as he goes along and it shows.

When the last whistle of the season is blown the Premiership executives don't have a meeting to decide who goes down,   They don't say give the Villa an extra two points because they have had a lot of injuries and another three because their manager flounced off five days before the start of the season.   They look at the table and they read the numbers.   Read them.

i agree mistakes have been made, especially the Anfield debacle

as for the selection policy. i personly would play Bannan every day of the week before NRC, as i believe he is already a better player than NRC will ever be,
he did play Petrov and NRC against City and a fat of good that did,

i would also take Houllier side against a few stroppy senoir players, once you give in to player power your finished, i cant believe you have taken there side

the question i would ask of Houllier is is his heart in it for the long haul, ie to rebuild the Villa team into a better footballing side, against a backdrop of fan discontent,
 i would be looking into his eyes to see where he wants to be and what his ambitions are, as i cant do that i presume Randy will be making those judgement calls,

but if i wasnt 100% of his comitment to the club and cause i would then let him go, and bring someone else in
but if he convinced me i would back the manager and not the malcontent players, and give him funds in the window to sart the rebuild,