Gerard Houllier

[Greg N'Ash]

some he did, some he didn't .neither downing or heskey were any good under MON, this season they've been more consistant. people like luke young, nrc were frozen out. Sidwells always been awful. the 4 or 5 like Dunne and Warnock who've been crap under Houllier and Mcdonald aren't really any sort nucleus to build on.

[Clampy]

some he did, some he didn't .neither downing or heskey were any good under MON, this season they've been more consistant. people like luke young, nrc were frozen out. Sidwells always been awful. the 4 or 5 like Dunne and Warnock who've been crap under Houllier and Mcdonald aren't really any sort nucleus to build on.

Downing and Heskey's perfomances have been better under GH, but we won't finish 6th again.

[stevenjos]

Heskeys and downings performances have been the same. Just everyone has been sh*tter. therefore making them look better....

[Chris Smith]

Jimbo is spot on. In a situation where we were not haunted by the possibility of relegation, most of us would give GH more time. We just don't have that luxury - there is no evidence whatsoever that he can turn things around. To think otherwise is just delusion. Villa can go down and will go down if GH is still with us on 1st February.

I honestly don't think we will. If the Wigan game had gone ahead I think we'd have carried on from the Baggies game and taken another 3 points and we'd now be 11th in the table. There are 6 points covering the teams from 8th to 18th. That shows that we're not the only ones who are showing less than brilliant form.

That's not to say that there aren't problems but it pays to keep a sense of perspective.

[Greg N'Ash]

my thoughts is the team was on the way out and MON knew it. We'd lost our best player and replaced him with Ireland - that says it all. too many in the team are past it or never good enough. Given the injuries as well 6th was never going to happen under MON this season anyway. Houlliers probably brought that realisation forward but the days of this team finishing 6th are long over whoever tries to get the best out of 'em

[Concrete John]

some he did, some he didn't .neither downing or heskey were any good under MON, this season they've been more consistant. people like luke young, nrc were frozen out. Sidwells always been awful. the 4 or 5 like Dunne and Warnock who've been crap under Houllier and Mcdonald aren't really any sort nucleus to build on.

I think Downing was always going to be better than last season given a full pre-season.  I agree Heskey looks better under Houllier.  But although we can talk through the pro and cons of various players, the simple truth is take away Milner from last season and we wouldn't have slipped from 6th to a relegation fight, which is what has effectively happened.

So on balance MON got more out of them than Houllier has.

[Clampy]

Jimbo is spot on. In a situation where we were not haunted by the possibility of relegation, most of us would give GH more time. We just don't have that luxury - there is no evidence whatsoever that he can turn things around. To think otherwise is just delusion. Villa can go down and will go down if GH is still with us on 1st February.

I honestly don't think we will. If the Wigan game had gone ahead I think we'd have carried on from the Baggies game and taken another 3 points and we'd now be 11th in the table. There are 6 points covering the teams from 8th to 18th. That shows that we're not the only ones who are showing less than brilliant form.

That's not to say that there aren't problems but it pays to keep a sense of perspective.

I think bearing in mind our away form, there's no guarantees that we would have beaten Wigan had it gone ahead. I've mentioned this in another thread but we've also lost to the likes of Stoke, Blackburn, Sunderland, Blues and a piss poor Liverpool side, all games we should at least be getting a point from or in the case of the Blues Cup game, a draw after 90 mins.

Like someone else has said on here somewhere, mid-table transistion is fine, but fighting relegation is not.

[Greg N'Ash]

you don't know that john. faced with the injuries who would MON have played? probably not the youngsters. A lot would have hinged on him getting some sort of form out of Ireland. Maybe he would have, but to think we'd be up in 6th given the same circumstances is pushing credibility IMO

[Clampy]

you don't know that john. faced with the injuries who would MON have played? probably not the youngsters. A lot would have hinged on him getting some sort of form out of Ireland. Maybe he would have, but to think we'd be up in 6th given the same circumstances is pushing credibility IMO

It would be wrong to expect us to be 6th after the injuries we've had, i think everyone would agree with that, but i doubt we were expecting to be 1 point off relegation going into the new year.

[pauliewalnuts]

some he did, some he didn't .neither downing or heskey were any good under MON, this season they've been more consistant. people like luke young, nrc were frozen out. Sidwells always been awful. the 4 or 5 like Dunne and Warnock who've been crap under Houllier and Mcdonald aren't really any sort nucleus to build on.

I think Downing was always going to be better than last season given a full pre-season.  I agree Heskey looks better under Houllier.  But although we can talk through the pro and cons of various players, the simple truth is take away Milner from last season and we wouldn't have slipped from 6th to a relegation fight, which is what has effectively happened.

So on balance MON got more out of them than Houllier has.

The difference is that Houllier finds himself trying to get results out of them when he's been parachuted in at the start of the season to a club in turmoil and is bringing in an entirely new coaching team, with different methods. MON was our manager for four years.

I'm as unimpressed by Houllier as the next man, but it is naive to expect him to get as much / the same out of the players in a few months as the previous guy did in four years.

I could also point out that - whether he was forced to or not - Houllier has got a lot more out of several players who MON would not have used. Lichaj, Albrighton, Bannan, for starters.

[Chris Smith]

Jimbo is spot on. In a situation where we were not haunted by the possibility of relegation, most of us would give GH more time. We just don't have that luxury - there is no evidence whatsoever that he can turn things around. To think otherwise is just delusion. Villa can go down and will go down if GH is still with us on 1st February.

I honestly don't think we will. If the Wigan game had gone ahead I think we'd have carried on from the Baggies game and taken another 3 points and we'd now be 11th in the table. There are 6 points covering the teams from 8th to 18th. That shows that we're not the only ones who are showing less than brilliant form.

That's not to say that there aren't problems but it pays to keep a sense of perspective.

I think bearing in mind our away form, there's no guarantees that we would have beaten Wigan had it gone ahead. I've mentioned this in another thread but we've also lost to the likes of Stoke, Blackburn, Sunderland, Blues and a piss poor Liverpool side, all games we should at least be getting a point from or in the case of the Blues Cup game, a draw after 90 mins.

Like someone else has said on here somewhere, mid-table transistion is fine, but fighting relegation is not.

There is no mid table at the moment though, there's the top 5 and everyone else. It's so compressed that Blackpool in 8th are only 6 ponts above the relegation places.

As I said, I think we need to keep a sense of perspective.

[OzVilla]

As an ex supporter of MON's, i'm as pissed off with him for leaving as any of us on here but for McGraths sake we've got to stop going on about the last Manager - this is about Houllier and the players and whether we have the confidence in them that they can turn this around.

We've been in relegation scraps before so we know it is needed, stomach of the fight, a united front, grafters in the side, some luck.  We've none of these qualities anymore have we.

Personally, based on recent performances, I have no faith in this Mnager or many of the players right now which is why RAL needs to have a long hard think about whther we make a change and quickly. 

[Jimbo]

It's all very well and good getting performances from individual players. But unless you get results from the team of players as a whole, it all counts for nothing. With each demoralising defeat, you'll see the confidence of those individuals steadily disappear, which in turn will make the team less likely to get results. I'd rather have 11 mediocre performances from a team that grinds out results, than one or two good performances in a team that habitually loses and accepts it as the norm.

[Clampy]

Jimbo is spot on. In a situation where we were not haunted by the possibility of relegation, most of us would give GH more time. We just don't have that luxury - there is no evidence whatsoever that he can turn things around. To think otherwise is just delusion. Villa can go down and will go down if GH is still with us on 1st February.

I honestly don't think we will. If the Wigan game had gone ahead I think we'd have carried on from the Baggies game and taken another 3 points and we'd now be 11th in the table. There are 6 points covering the teams from 8th to 18th. That shows that we're not the only ones who are showing less than brilliant form.

That's not to say that there aren't problems but it pays to keep a sense of perspective.

I think bearing in mind our away form, there's no guarantees that we would have beaten Wigan had it gone ahead. I've mentioned this in another thread but we've also lost to the likes of Stoke, Blackburn, Sunderland, Blues and a piss poor Liverpool side, all games we should at least be getting a point from or in the case of the Blues Cup game, a draw after 90 mins.

Like someone else has said on here somewhere, mid-table transistion is fine, but fighting relegation is not.

There is no mid table at the moment though, there's the top 5 and everyone else. It's so compressed that Blackpool in 8th are only 6 ponts above the relegation places.

As I said, I think we need to keep a sense of perspective.

I know exactly where you're coming from Chris, but the main problem is we're playing bloody awful and don't seem to have any confidence whatsoever, whereas the likes of Blackpool are looking a decent hardworking side and picking up points where you would'nt expect them to. Losing games like we are becomes a habit, which is very hard to get out of. Sheff Utd in the cup could well be another Doncaster.

[TheBarneyArmy]

The way GH's tenure has gone so far means we will have a 6th place spot next season... but only in the championship. We are in deep trouble, especially when players who previously put in a shift have stopped giving a sh1t. And player motivation has to start with the manager.