Is Ged getting fed up?

[Rudy Can't Fail]

Somebody mentioned Klinsmann was past it when he signed for Spurs. Maybe they were thinking of the second time he joined them, on loan. In his first spell there he scored 21 goals in 41 matches, picking up the Football Writers Player of the Year Award. He then went on to play top football for another 3 years. Hardly what I'd call past it.

That was me.  He signed in 1994 after the USA world cup when in his 30s.  He looked after himself granted, but simply wasn't the player he had been.

He was 29, turning 30 when he signed for Spurs. He was a World Cup winner (1990) and his record at Spurs and later at Bayern speaks for itself. There's no pleasing some people.

[Irreverent ad]

TBF Klinsmann was a top player. One of my favourite ever strikers.

[Rudy Can't Fail]

They did win a League Cup in 1999, if that counts but I guess it might have helped if they'd also invested in a defender or two to add to their attacking flair.

As for the above, Ginola whilst at Spurs won both the PFA Player of the Year Award and the Football Writers Player of the Year Award, so he couldn't have been that bad.

England international Sheringham scored 98 goals for Spurs.

Ferdinand was injured most of the time but when he did play, made up a great partnership with Klinsmann. Signing a player that scored 50 goals in 84 games at Newcastle is the type of goalscorer I'd like to see us sign.

Robbie Keane - 80 goals in 197 matches for Spurs before he moved to Liverpool. I'd have liked some of that at the time too.

Somebody mentioned Klinsmann was past it when he signed for Spurs. Maybe they were thinking of the second time he joined them, on loan. In his first spell there he scored 21 goals in 41 matches, picking up the Football Writers Player of the Year Award. He then went on to play top football for another 3 years. Hardly what I'd call past it.

The nearest we got to signing a big name player was a wave from Juninho and a press report linking us with Hans Krankl.

Sorry I think you misunderstood me. I did not say that they good for Spurs. I just said in my opinion they were not TOP players. I will stress that is my opinion. Maldini, Baresi, Van Basten, Gullit, Ronaldo....those are/were top players on my scale. Some of the above players performed very well/ excellently for Spurs but they did not sign them as ready made/undeniable 'top players'.

We should be going after the types of players that Spurs are/were in the last couple of seasons, the likes of Modric, Bale, Lennon etc when they are young with vast potential to be successfull.

I hope you're not suggesting Lennon is a TOP player?

[Irreverent ad]

They did win a League Cup in 1999, if that counts but I guess it might have helped if they'd also invested in a defender or two to add to their attacking flair.

As for the above, Ginola whilst at Spurs won both the PFA Player of the Year Award and the Football Writers Player of the Year Award, so he couldn't have been that bad.

England international Sheringham scored 98 goals for Spurs.

Ferdinand was injured most of the time but when he did play, made up a great partnership with Klinsmann. Signing a player that scored 50 goals in 84 games at Newcastle is the type of goalscorer I'd like to see us sign.

Robbie Keane - 80 goals in 197 matches for Spurs before he moved to Liverpool. I'd have liked some of that at the time too.

Somebody mentioned Klinsmann was past it when he signed for Spurs. Maybe they were thinking of the second time he joined them, on loan. In his first spell there he scored 21 goals in 41 matches, picking up the Football Writers Player of the Year Award. He then went on to play top football for another 3 years. Hardly what I'd call past it.

The nearest we got to signing a big name player was a wave from Juninho and a press report linking us with Hans Krankl.

Sorry I think you misunderstood me. I did not say that they good for Spurs. I just said in my opinion they were not TOP players. I will stress that is my opinion. Maldini, Baresi, Van Basten, Gullit, Ronaldo....those are/were top players on my scale. Some of the above players performed very well/ excellently for Spurs but they did not sign them as ready made/undeniable 'top players'.

We should be going after the types of players that Spurs are/were in the last couple of seasons, the likes of Modric, Bale, Lennon etc when they are young with vast potential to be successfull.

I hope you're not suggesting Lennon is a TOP player?

Not at all. But he is a good player who Spurs bought for peanuts (tribunal i think) and he has done well for them. What I am saying is in order for us to progress we need to stop thinking that we can buy top players. We have to buy young players, like Delph, who have fantastic potential who can progress us onto the next level and grow together as a team and have the chance to become very good players. Mix that with a couple of older heads and we can move forward.

[Concrete John]

He was 29, turning 30 when he signed for Spurs. He was a World Cup winner (1990) and his record at Spurs and later at Bayern speaks for itself. There's no pleasing some people.

Not a matter of being pleased or not as they ain't my club, but Klinsmann was in the latter part of his career when he went there and had had his best days, which does not mean he still didn't have a lot to offer as the stats you quoted would suggest.

The PL simply did not pay enough to get a truely top world player at the height of his career in 1994.

[Edvard Remberg]

He was 29, turning 30 when he signed for Spurs. He was a World Cup winner (1990) and his record at Spurs and later at Bayern speaks for itself. There's no pleasing some people.

Not a matter of being pleased or not as they ain't my club, but Klinsmann was in the latter part of his career when he went there and had had his best days, which does not mean he still didn't have a lot to offer as the stats you quoted would suggest.

The PL simply did not pay enough to get a truely top world player at the height of his career in 1994.

And after Spurs, he played 2 years for Bayern scoring 48 goals and almost singlehanded won the Uefacup for them.

[Irreverent ad]

So basically to summarise....we are all saying that we agree that we cannot sign a top player, but disagree on whether Spurs have signed a top player since the Premier League began.

Typical Spurs, ruining football since 1882!

[Merv]

Whatever the merits of being a 'top player', what Spurs have done very well in recent seasons is sign the second tier type of player, talented and young and ready to move up a level. It's worked well for them: see Dawson, Huddlestone, Carrick, Lennon, Bale, Defoe, er, Jenas...

I'd say Modric and Van der Vaart weren't far off top players myself, perhaps not the finished 'superstar' article but not far off and the kind of player we should be in the market for.

[Mister E]

The first quote is very Gregoryesque and a little dated to be honest, as he may be in terms of being a league manager. I may be being slightly disngenuous but he was with the French team that imploded amid a group of very unhappy players to a level not seen at that level before, especially at a major tournament. The major tournament. He's now come to Villa and we're seeing the same sort of rebellion from certain players if the stories are to be believed. Its all worrying and the vibe at Villa Park has gone from one of hope, expectation, to one of  acerbic regression  Its all very worrying.

Two points re this, Peter:
- managers do tend to sort out the wheat from the chaff during their first period in charge of a new club. I regard what GH is doing as clarifying his position on the attitude and commitment of certain players that he has inherited; nothing wrong with that, IMHO.
- I don't know whether there's a sniff of 'rebellion' at B6: from what we're led to believe, MON alienated several squad players but maybe did so more privately. Given the performance of several senior players this season, perhaps there is a need for a rebellious fervour to be encouraged - let's get some passion and commitment into our play rather than the languid approach by some players.

As said above, January will be the time to assess whether there is a bright new dawn over VP or the nuclear pall of festering discontent.

[paul_e]

Whatever the merits of being a 'top player', what Spurs have done very well in recent seasons is sign the second tier type of player, talented and young and ready to move up a level. It's worked well for them: see Dawson, Huddlestone, Carrick, Lennon, Bale, Defoe, er, Jenas...

I'd say Modric and Van der Vaart weren't far off top players myself, perhaps not the finished 'superstar' article but not far off and the kind of player we should be in the market for.

Can't agree with modric tbh, he was a youngster with a few caps and with a decent reputation from a fairly average league.  He also looked very average for the first half a season in the league.

Van Der Vaart is a bit of a red herring as he was only signed when they were champions league qualified (after they had made the group stage I believe).

We've got the start of a good system in place, most of us can agree Delph is showing all the signs of being a very good player, add him to all the other kids who've come through and the potential is definitely there, we just need to stick to it.  A couple of good young uns in january and another half season of the kids and we'll be in a position to judge the squad properly.

[rjp]

The first quote is very Gregoryesque and a little dated to be honest, as he may be in terms of being a league manager. I may be being slightly disngenuous but he was with the French team that imploded amid a group of very unhappy players to a level not seen at that level before, especially at a major tournament. The major tournament. He's now come to Villa and we're seeing the same sort of rebellion from certain players if the stories are to be believed. Its all worrying and the vibe at Villa Park has gone from one of hope, expectation, to one of  acerbic regression  Its all very worrying.

Two points re this, Peter:
- managers do tend to sort out the wheat from the chaff during their first period in charge of a new club. I regard what GH is doing as clarifying his position on the attitude and commitment of certain players that he has inherited; nothing wrong with that, IMHO.
- I don't know whether there's a sniff of 'rebellion' at B6: from what we're led to believe, MON alienated several squad players but maybe did so more privately. Given the performance of several senior players this season, perhaps there is a need for a rebellious fervour to be encouraged - let's get some passion and commitment into our play rather than the languid approach by some players.

As said above, January will be the time to assess whether there is a bright new dawn over VP or the nuclear pall of festering discontent.

I'm not so sure that January will be the exciting window many people seem to think.  It's hard to sign good players then, regardless of money or ambition.  I've decided to be patient and judge him at the start of next season when he has the big window to work with.  That is of course assuming we're not heading towards the championship.  Perhaps I'll be proved wrong, if so it'd be a nice surprise.

[Bad English]

he was with the French team that imploded amid a group of very unhappy players to a level not seen at that level before, especially at a major tournament. The major tournament.

He held the same position in the French FA when they won the World Cup in 1998.

And he was manager of the French team when they failed to qualify for USA 94 with Papin, Cantona, Ginola...

[hawkeye]

What has become apparent is that the thought that Houlier would come in to steady the ship, poor oil on troubled waters, galvanise the squad and stabalise the club was totally wrong. He has obviously alienated players attempted to impose his regime and has been quick to let his feelings be known. Its the old country saying " if you let a fox loose in the chicken coup he is likely to ruffle up a few feathers"

[KevinGage]

More like pouring petrol on the flames, that seems to be his approach to date.

He could  change, of course.  But at 63 years of age I doubt it.

[hawkeye]

More like pouring petrol on the flames, that seems to be his approach to date.

He could  change, of course.  But at 63 years of age I doubt it.

Its a gamble without a doubt, he is saying "my way or the highway" the problem is the "Highway" aint that attratctive if you have a few years on your contract, the wrong side of 30 band getting paid £40k a week.