Houllier confirms Ireland wants to leave!

[JUAN PABLO]

Personally I don't think Milner asked to leave, but was asked if he wanted to leave after an offer had come in from City that the board thought would be too good to refuse. I don't think MON wanted Milner to leave, but having been told effectively that he would have to sell to buy, knew that he wasn't going to get enough money for what he wanted to do from the players he had left on the fringes for so long. If inded anyone wanted to buy them. So in the end he begrudgingly wanted him to leave so that he could have the money to do what he wanted to do regarding summer transfers.

I think it was a weird situation then where no one actually wanted Milner to leave, even himself, but once the proposition came in, everyone warmed to the idea for their own reasons, Milner because he saw it as a better prospect to win silverware, and of course big wages, the board because of the sums involved, and MON because his plans rested on the money from his sale.

Who is to blame? Not sure anyone is per se, though had MON not got us in to the situation he had regarding finances, I think both he and Milner would possibly still be here today.

That's my theory anyway, just a theory but it seems to fit with all people's versions of events.

Regarding Ireland,  Lovejoy, I still think we go the better end of the deal, £18 million and whatever we get for Ireland when we sell him on, is still a bloody good price for Milner, irrespective of how badly Ireland has played for us. 

Mate, Milner wanted out of here......      quick  and he was shitting himself when he thought the deal was going to fail once...                   

[Dave]

i'm saying that Milner was probably asked in the meeting about Citeh and probably said if you want to sell me, then i'd be interested. Just like Young or gabby would say now. There's a big difference to that conversation and your manager announcing to the world that you want to leave.

Crikey, if you'd said earlier that you were invited to the meeting then it would have cleared it all up much earlier. Forget what we've been told or what actually happened, Greg's imaginary dramatization makes things much clearer.

I'm not going to speak for Greg, but would it be entirely out of the question that Milner was interested in joining Citeh, had even held preliminary talks re wages and so on via his agent but might have had doubts about leaving?

Only for MON's comments to make his mind up and push him past the point of no return.

Pure conjecture on my part, but there was very little from the Milner camp either way up until MON's comments in July.

I'm not sure there was anything from the Milner camp either way even after those comments. The only thing I'm aware of is that the Milner camp ending up moving from Birmingham to Manchester.

And the issue that I have with the "after Martin O'Neill's comments he didn't have a choice' standpoint is that once O'Neill leaves (two weeks prior to Milner's transfer) then if he does want to stay at Villa he can just stay and put all the blame on the person whose fault it was. Who is no longer there.

No, I'm sure you're right greg. Milner wanted to stay here and it was just O'Neill trying to get him out.

Which is why Milner is now at Manchester City in spite of O'Neill leaving.

I'm sure that you're right and that he did deny having that conversation - I'm struggling to find anything on Google about Milner's comments on the above - could you remind me of what he said?

Milner wanted out of Villa as soon as Mancity wanted him. Fact...   he double his wage. Fact

Quite. I'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with anything that O'Neill did or didn't say, but an awful lot more to do with the extra money that he'd be earning. Not that there's anything at all wrong with that.

[villa1]

I'm happy to admit that I thought we were getting a very good player in return. Not the better end of the deal though.

[Toronto Villa]

i remember when Ireland sign there were those posting here that we was a fanstastic player and we'd done the best out of the deal. Where are you? The problem with an online forum is everyone is wise after the fact and those who were wrong just hide for a while. Few if any have the balls to come on and say they were wrong and better people than them are running things.
I guess my point is we can pick holes in what those who are running things have done without ever having to face up to the errors of our views.

Hindsight's great isn't it? I'll freely admit I thought we had got a very good player. A lot of people did. And he hasn't become a bad player, his head and heart just isn't in it. It's not about being wrong or right. It's about accepting that the deal, arguably both ways hasn't worked out as well as was hoped.

[Eigentor]

And the issue that I have with the "after Martin O'Neill's comments he didn't have a choice' standpoint is that once O'Neill leaves (two weeks prior to Milner's transfer) then if he does want to stay at Villa he can just stay and put all the blame on the person whose fault it was. Who is no longer there.

I think you are missing out on the nuances here. Most people believe that Milner wanted to leave. But some of them also believe that we could have convinced/forced him to stay by rejecting City's offers. In this case, Milner would have remained a Villa player and had had the fans' backing because it was never clear that he wanted to leave. After MON comments that was no longer a possibility.

[Greg N'Ash]

i'm saying that Milner was probably asked in the meeting about Citeh and probably said if you want to sell me, then i'd be interested. Just like Young or gabby would say now. There's a big difference to that conversation and your manager announcing to the world that you want to leave.

Crikey, if you'd said earlier that you were invited to the meeting then it would have cleared it all up much earlier. Forget what we've been told or what actually happened, Greg's imaginary dramatization makes things much clearer.

What we've been told? Only person who said he was desperate to leave was MON. If you think you can trust anything that guy said then fair enough, but i prefer to think that the word of a disloyal tosser who let the club down while negotiating to take the dippers job isn't worth the newpaper its printed in. As i said, yes Milner probably fancied going to Citeh just like Young would fancy going there is he had the option. Does that mean Ash wants to leave?

[Dave]

And the issue that I have with the "after Martin O'Neill's comments he didn't have a choice' standpoint is that once O'Neill leaves (two weeks prior to Milner's transfer) then if he does want to stay at Villa he can just stay and put all the blame on the person whose fault it was. Who is no longer there.

I think you are missing out on the nuances here. Most people believe that Milner wanted to leave. But some of them also believe that we could have convinced/forced him to stay by rejecting City's offers. In this case, Milner would have remained a Villa player and had had the fans' backing because it was never clear that he wanted to leave. After MON comments that was no longer a possibility.

Which is all fine.

But the question wasn't whether the whole situation was handled as well as it could have been or whether the managers comments were helpful.

Whether that was the right way to do it or not is certainly up for debate, but I was only really arguing Greg's daft claim that it was "pretty obvious that MON wanted rid of milner". Which is ridiculous.

[Dave]

i'm saying that Milner was probably asked in the meeting about Citeh and probably said if you want to sell me, then i'd be interested. Just like Young or gabby would say now. There's a big difference to that conversation and your manager announcing to the world that you want to leave.

Crikey, if you'd said earlier that you were invited to the meeting then it would have cleared it all up much earlier. Forget what we've been told or what actually happened, Greg's imaginary dramatization makes things much clearer.

What we've been told? Only person who said he was desperate to leave was MON. If you think you can trust anything that guy said then fair enough, but i prefer to think that the word of a disloyal tosser who let the club down while negotiating to take the dippers job isn't worth the newpaper its printed in. As i said, yes Milner probably fancied going to Citeh just like Young would fancy going there is he had the option. Does that mean Ash wants to leave?

If he wants to and has the option then yes, of course it does.

I think we're going round in slightly mental circles here Greg. I don't think there are many people who still like O'Neill, but it's a big jump from that to "he's lying that Milner wants to leave" a couple of weeks before Milner then leaves.

[KevinGage]

i remember when Ireland sign there were those posting here that we was a fanstastic player and we'd done the best out of the deal. Where are you? The problem with an online forum is everyone is wise after the fact and those who were wrong just hide for a while. Few if any have the balls to come on and say they were wrong and better people than them are running things.
I guess my point is we can pick holes in what those who are running things have done without ever having to face up to the errors of our views.

What, despite the myriad of posts in the last few weeks saying it looked like a good idea at the time and now doesn't, you mean?

[Greg N'Ash]

i'm saying that Milner was probably asked in the meeting about Citeh and probably said if you want to sell me, then i'd be interested. Just like Young or gabby would say now. There's a big difference to that conversation and your manager announcing to the world that you want to leave.

Crikey, if you'd said earlier that you were invited to the meeting then it would have cleared it all up much earlier. Forget what we've been told or what actually happened, Greg's imaginary dramatization makes things much clearer.

What we've been told? Only person who said he was desperate to leave was MON. If you think you can trust anything that guy said then fair enough, but i prefer to think that the word of a disloyal tosser who let the club down while negotiating to take the dippers job isn't worth the newpaper its printed in. As i said, yes Milner probably fancied going to Citeh just like Young would fancy going there is he had the option. Does that mean Ash wants to leave?

If he wants to and has the option then yes, of course it does.

I think we're going round in slightly mental circles here Greg. I don't think there are many people who still like O'Neill, but it's a big jump from that to "he's lying that Milner wants to leave" a couple of weeks before Milner then leaves.

no but he made it public knowledge without seemingly Milner's or the board's permission. As soon as he'd made that statement Milner was as good as gone. Now if he's desperate to keep the guy like you claim why would he do that?

[KevinGage]

And the issue that I have with the "after Martin O'Neill's comments he didn't have a choice' standpoint is that once O'Neill leaves (two weeks prior to Milner's transfer) then if he does want to stay at Villa he can just stay and put all the blame on the person whose fault it was. Who is no longer there.

I think you are missing out on the nuances here. Most people believe that Milner wanted to leave. But some of them also believe that we could have convinced/forced him to stay by rejecting City's offers. In this case, Milner would have remained a Villa player and had had the fans' backing because it was never clear that he wanted to leave. After MON comments that was no longer a possibility.

Aye, that would be about the size of it.

[Eigentor]

I was only really arguing Greg's daft claim that it was "pretty obvious that MON wanted rid of milner". Which is ridiculous.

It's not "pretty obvious" that MON wanted to get rid of Milner, but it is not ridiculous to wonder why MON made public comments that made it more complicated for Milner to stay at Villa.

[Greg N'Ash]

aye. its like claiming GH is desperate to keep Ireland after revealing what his agent said. I'm guessing he's looking forward to adding the Ireland money to his transfer funds

[SoccerHQ]

I don't think Ireland has had a fair crack of the whip, certainly not playing off the striker like Young has.

I believe he'll be good at his next club but if he dosen't want to be here, then get rid. I'd still expect 5m given he's young so will have a resale value.

[Eigentor]

FWIW, I'm not necessarily in agreement with Greg. I think MON's comments were unhelpful and seriously reduced our chances of keeping Milner (he might have left anyway), but that doesn't mean that he had an agenda. As MON were in a state of mind where he could leave the club a few weeks later without thinking too much about the concequences, it is not imconceivable that he made those comments too without thinking too much about the concequences.