Houllier confirms Ireland wants to leave!

[Kent Villian]

Throughout this thread the issue of lack of effort & poor attitude has been mentioned as a main reason that people dislike Ireland & want rid. But it is funny how some players past & present seem to live a charmed life - Carew has not exacly given 100% in every game and yet he in some people eyes he can do no wrong, I remember him warming up shortly after the lapdancing incident - rather than get any stick for letting the team down the Holte sang "Get your tits out for Carew" & then of course there is GOD (appreciate I may really piss a few people off with the next bit!) who went missing on a regular basis due to his love of the booze but is still remembered fondly by many. It could be argued that as an out of control alcoholic his actions where selfish with little or no regard for others including his manager & team mates. If people take the view that he was not responsible for his actions due to his addiction could not the same be said right now about Ireland and his fragile psychological instability?

[Clampy]

The two flaw's in your argument Kent is that Ireland has only been here 5 minutes and want's away already. The McGrath comparison was just a poor one.

[Kent Villian]

So is it more acceptable to display a bad/selfish attitude if you have been at Villa longer than 5 mins?
The McGrath comparism is just a poor one - why?

[barrysleftfoot]

  Trouble with Ireland is his attitude, and aptitude.He is a good footballer, but does'nt seem to want to be a great footballer.

  Macca was a great footballer because once on the pitch, you could never question his attitude/aptitude.

[Clampy]

So is it more acceptable to display a bad/selfish attitude if you have been at Villa longer than 5 mins?
The McGrath comparism is just a poor one - why?

Because despite McGrath's off-field problems, once he was on the pitch he was absolutley oustanding. The fact that he'll go down as one of Villa's greatest ever players suggests that you won't have too many people agreeing with you.

[KevinGage]

So is it more acceptable to display a bad/selfish attitude if you have been at Villa longer than 5 mins?
The McGrath comparism is just a poor one - why?

Because if your performances on the pitch are consistently brilliant over a long period of time for the club you have more credit in the bank?

That would be the case with most employers I'd have thought.

Had McGrath carried on in a similar vein to his QPR horror show performance in 1989 and then made noises about leaving just a few short months after signing for us I don't think he'd have received the kind of support and understanding he did in 1994.

In fact even  after all he'd contributed on the pitch, there were quite a few Villa fans  who felt he crossed a line with his non show v Exeter and wanted him on a final warning or worse.

[Dave]

oh come on dave, you know how these things work. Its like when Barry stayed. A poor game from him and this place was full of "bugger off to liverpool" posts. If Milner really had signed a deal to join Citeh then even given his professionalism i think he would have struggled

Wasn't Barry pretty damn good that season, in spite of the occasional dimwitted post on a message board? Again, possibly not one of your better examples.

All I'm saying is the previous time the scenario arose in Milner's career, your vision of doom and despair didn't come to pass. He just got on with things.

he still left as soon as he could. Anyway the manager wanted to keep him. Its pretty obvious that MON wanted rid of milner and helped instigate the whole situation by his public comments. Given that situation, i believe Milner would be a bit pissed to say the least if the deal was pulled at the 11th hour

"He still left as soon as he could". He did indeed. And if Milner had stayed last summer he would also have left as soon as he could. But that isn't at all relevant to this discussion.

"Its pretty obvious that MON wanted rid of milner". Is it?

Was it obvious when he said this on April 21st? "James is still under contract with us and it's a case of dampening fires that weren't there in the first place. We want the best players to stay here at Aston Villa so we can keep the momentum going"

How about this on July 12th? “What I will say is we have a better chance of performing in the manner in which we did last season if we could keep the best players and James Milner comes into that equation.”

Or how about on August 2nd when said "Naturally I've said before that, almost everyone to a man, would want James to stay at the football club."

Yeah, he was practically bundling him out the door.

[Eigentor]

"Its pretty obvious that MON wanted rid of milner". Is it?

Was it obvious when he said this on April 21st? "James is still under contract with us and it's a case of dampening fires that weren't there in the first place. We want the best players to stay here at Aston Villa so we can keep the momentum going"

How about this on July 12th? “What I will say is we have a better chance of performing in the manner in which we did last season if we could keep the best players and James Milner comes into that equation.”

Or how about on August 2nd when said "Naturally I've said before that, almost everyone to a man, would want James to stay at the football club."

Yeah, he was practically bundling him out the door.

Still, when MON said, publicly, that Milner "intimated" that he wanted to leave, he didn't exactly make it easier for Milner to stay.

[Greg N'Ash]

hmmm. i think we're on about the ones from the 22 July.

Speaking at a press conference ahead of Villa's friendly with Bohemians in Dublin on Saturday, O'Neill confirmed Milner had rejected the chance to stay at Villa Park.

He said: "I had a conversation with James before the World Cup and he intimated that he'd like to go.

"City made an offer but it did not meet our valuation. I'm sure matters will be resolved soon. James is back next week having had an extended holiday."

The ones where Milner denied any knowledge of the conversation and reportably tried to phone MON to find out what was happening

[Dave]

No, I'm sure you're right greg. Milner wanted to stay here and it was just O'Neill trying to get him out.

Which is why Milner is now at Manchester City in spite of O'Neill leaving.

I'm sure that you're right and that he did deny having that conversation - I'm struggling to find anything on Google about Milner's comments on the above - could you remind me of what he said?

[Eigentor]

Milner didn't say anything before the transfer was completed, if I recall things correctly.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/a/aston_villa/8854564.stm

[Greg N'Ash]

It was discussed on here at the time and it was reported in the papers that Milner was furious about it. Pelty has also hinted it didn't go down well with milners camp

but hey i'm sure you're right. You'd always take the word of a guy who leaves his club in the shit a week before the season starts before Milner

[Dave]

It was discussed on here at the time and it was reported in the papers that Milner was furious about it. Pelty has also hinted it didn't go down well with milners camp

So nobody has said anything about this, either during the summer or since? It must be true then.

but hey i'm sure you're right. You'd always take the word of a guy who leaves his club in the shit a week before the season starts before Milner

I would if all the evidence seems to back up the hardly controversial opinion that "Milner wanted to join Man City".

Is there anything at all that suggests that O'Neill lying and that Milner didn't want to join Man City?

[Eigentor]

I think there is little doubt that Milner wanted to leave in the summer. However, he didn't want to say this in public because he didn't want a backlash a la Barry if the transfer didn't go through. This means that he was prepared to stay and do his best if we managed to keep him. But after MON's comments the latter was no longer a possibility.

[Toronto Villa]

Surely Milner had every opportunity at the time to come out and say, "I want to stay at Villa". Yet, he didn't then, and he hasn't since said, "I wanted to stay at Villa, but they didn't want me".