Dunne in bust up with Houllier & McAllister on Friday - NOTW

[Bosco81]

Having Carlos Cuellar in our team certainly makes us better defensively, whether that's as a centre half, right back or centre forward.

I'm more than willing to give Gerard time to put his mark on the team when the injuries clear up and he gets his hand on the cheque book, I just thought he would have stamped his mark on the team a bit more up to now. I honestly don't think we're passing the ball any more than we did previously.

[Concrete John]

2. For all the grumblings about MON last year i think every poster on here would have to acknowledge that we were defensively solid last year (solid is probably an understatement too). Since Houllier came in we have been a disgrace defensively and not only Dunne is to blame. It is hard to understand how Houllier has come in and overseen the demise of what was last year possibly the best defensive unit in the Premier League. Yes Dunne and other individuals have been poor, but I think when the whole defensive structure collapses you have to look at the manager.

Whilst I think Dunne has been shocking, as has Warnock, you also have to remember that the midfield has been decimated, and as a result it puts an awful lot of pressure on the defence.

It still wasn't right on Saturday - witness Heskey getting back and doing a lot of fine work defensively. I reckon he put in almost as many clearing headers in our box as Cuellar and Collins did.

We lost Milner, who was massive, but I hardly would call it decimating.

I think it is a case of GH trying to make us into more of a "passing team" and has shifted the emphasis from what was a defensively sound unit and he is basically falling between 2 stools.

I mean the decimation by injuries this season.

We started against Manchester United with Bannan and Hogg in the middle. And against Arsenal. These are children.

That is fair enough, but I still dont think having Petrov and NRC back is suddenly going to improve the back 4's performances. How poor we are defending set pieces this year show it's not a personnel issue but a systemic issue.

I think it's a bit of both.

Last season we had the 2 centre backs, Cuellar and either Heskey or Carew to deal with set pieces. This year it's just been Dunne and Collins in the majority of games. That's meant that sides have been more willing to just launch it into the 6 yard box and we've struggled to cope.

Add to that we have a vertically challenged player in the midfield, where last year we would have had Milner or Petrov, and that adds to the issue of defending set pieces.

[eastie]

Yes the midfield has been weak but many of the goals we have conceded and cost us points have been down to very poor individual errors by defenders and goalkeeper- we are only ,6 points off the top 6 and when you look at the points thrown away by stupid mistakes we would have been right up there.

We need to be able to see off games and we have awful in that respect, as soon as we get into the last 5 minutes the ball seems to be a hot potato and we go to pieces -it very nearly cost us on Saturday again.

Warnock has been atrocious this season and should not be in the team much longer, dunne very poor and Collins well below his best, and brad has looked well past his sell by date- these players have made many costly stupid mistakes and at this level you get punished.

Collins looked more assured with cuellar but I'd be tempted to leave lichaj in and switch luke to left back at Wigan, the return of reo - coker and heskey is massive !

[WikiVilla]

Yes, seeing Bannan on the post for corners is a bit scary

[The Man With A Stick]

Collins looked more assured with cuellar but I'd be tempted to leave lichaj in and switch luke to left back at Wigan, the return of reo - coker and heskey is massive !

That could be the kick up the arse that Warnock obviously needs.  There's a decent player in there somewhere, but god knows what's happened to him.

[JJ-AV]

The set piece thing, I seem to remember after Christmas we started conceding an uncharacteristically high amount of goals through them.

Wigan and Burnley scored a couple past us (both Caldwells IIRC) and Blackburn scored around 3 or 4 over 3 games against us didn't they?

Dunne's lost his motivation, Warnock wants out, Friedel's not good enough anymore and Collins at best is only ever solid.

Replace Dunne, Warnock and Friedel and we'll be all right again.

[Chris Smith]

Yes the midfield has been weak but many of the goals we have conceded and cost us points have been down to very poor individual errors by defenders and goalkeeper- we are only ,6 points off the top 6 and when you look at the points thrown away by stupid mistakes we would have been right up there.

We need to be able to see off games and we have awful in that respect, as soon as we get into the last 5 minutes the ball seems to be a hot potato and we go to pieces -it very nearly cost us on Saturday again.

Warnock has been atrocious this season and should not be in the team much longer, dunne very poor and Collins well below his best, and brad has looked well past his sell by date- these players have made many costly stupid mistakes and at this level you get punished.

Collins looked more assured with cuellar but I'd be tempted to leave lichaj in and switch luke to left back at Wigan, the return of reo - coker and heskey is massive !

Why does Luke Young escape criticism? He's always out of position, rarely tackles and his passing is poor. Could it be because so many spent all last season saying he should be in the side that they can't bring themselves to admit that he's just not very good.

[N'ZMAV]

Lichaj was better on Sat than any performance L Young has put in for a while.

[Concrete John]

Replace Dunne, Warnock and Friedel and we'll be all right again.

Well, age dictates that Big Brad needs replacing shortly anyway and we only have one left back at the club, so that's another logical transfer need.  But I wouldn't be rushing out to buy a CB.  Lets give Cuellar a run there and see what happens first.   

[pedro25]

Clark, Cuellar and Davies have barely featured at centre half over the last 18 months, so lets see what they can do between now and the end of the season before shelling out on a centre back.  I feel Dunne has probably had it, but Collins will return to form soon (Sat was much better for a start).

[cb]

Interesting how Irish posters are more inclined to stick up for Dunne. As they're entitled to do, of course.

I never have. Didn't want the tubby lump of lard here in the first place. I think last season and this have summed Dunne up very nicely. He's always been capable of putting in some good performances, but the trouble is he is incapable of being truely consistent and always has a clanger in him just waiting to come to the fore (see Carling Cup final for details).  He's constantly lacked professionalism throughout his career and never has been and never will be a top level centre half. I think he's the type of palyer that only Martin O'Neill could get the best out of and we would be well advised to try and move him on as soon as we can, so as to stll get a decent price for him.

[Rudy Can't Fail]

Why does Luke Young escape criticism? He's always out of position, rarely tackles and his passing is poor. Could it be because so many spent all last season saying he should be in the side that they can't bring themselves to admit that he's just not very good.

Oh come on Chris, he's not "always out of position" and he certainly hasn't been as bad as you make out. Don't turn this into a Carlos vs Luke Young debate. I defended Carlos at right back last season but Young gives us something extra, even if he's not always on top form.

The problem is we aren't defending as a team, something we did so well last season, often for 80 minutes of the game. It's all well and good playing a more open game, not solely relying on the counter attack but our defence has suffered right across the line from the lack of support from the midfield. We need to tighten up defensively but that's the responsibility of the midfield as well as the back four. Saturday was a big improvement but there's still a long way to go before we regularly keep clean sheets.

As I mentioned elsewhere, I wonder how long it is before Houllier tries again to get Patrice Bergues to Villa Park to sort out our defence.

[eastie]

Luke young hasn't been at his best this season agreed but he would perform better at left back than the horrendous displays of warnock - ultimately we may need 2 new full backs but warnock needs replacing and only luke is available at the moment to do that!

[Chris Smith]

Why does Luke Young escape criticism? He's always out of position, rarely tackles and his passing is poor. Could it be because so many spent all last season saying he should be in the side that they can't bring themselves to admit that he's just not very good.

Oh come on Chris, he's not "always out of position" and he certainly hasn't been as bad as you make out. Don't turn this into a Carlos vs Luke Young debate. I defended Carlos at right back last season but Young gives us something extra, even if he's not always on top form.

What does he give us extra? He's not a good attacking full back and he's a worse defender than Carlos.

[mrfuse]

Why does Luke Young escape criticism? He's always out of position, rarely tackles and his passing is poor. Could it be because so many spent all last season saying he should be in the side that they can't bring themselves to admit that he's just not very good.

Oh come on Chris, he's not "always out of position" and he certainly hasn't been as bad as you make out. Don't turn this into a Carlos vs Luke Young debate. I defended Carlos at right back last season but Young gives us something extra, even if he's not always on top form.

What does he give us extra? He's not a good attacking full back and he's a worse defender than Carlos.

At the risk of joining in the debate I like Carlos but he cant pass to save his life so thats one thing Luke is better at