A Century (or more) of Birmingham geographical history on one thread

[maidstonevillain]

Anywhere north of Worcester and south of Stafford is in Birmingham as far as I'm concerned.

I'd agree with that, too.

Cast Wolverhampton adrift, Iand I would agree also.

[DeKuip]

Why let facts get in the way of a good story, nothing winds Albion fans up more than telling them they are a Birmingham club.

After a similar argument I once convinced a couple Baggies in the pub that the word "Bromwich" was actually derived from the word "Brummagem" and so really there club was West Birmingham. I didn't actually believe what I was saying myself but looking it up on wiki you do get the following....
"Brummagem (and historically also Bromichan, Bremicham and many similar variants, all essentially Bromwich·ham) is the local name for the city of Birmingham, England, and the dialect associated with it"
Still not sure I believe that though.

[dave.woodhall]

Why let facts get in the way of a good story, nothing winds Albion fans up more than telling them they are a Birmingham club.

After a similar argument I once convinced a couple Baggies in the pub that the word "Bromwich" was actually derived from the word "Brummagem" and so really there club was West Birmingham. I didn't actually believe what I was saying myself but looking it up on wiki you do get the following....
"Brummagem (and historically also Bromichan, Bremicham and many similar variants, all essentially Bromwich·ham) is the local name for the city of Birmingham, England, and the dialect associated with it"
Still not sure I believe that though.

That's because it's not true. It derives from 'village of the broom' and refers to the plant of that name which grew in profusion in the original hamlet from which the town evolved.

[DeKuip]

Why let facts get in the way of a good story, nothing winds Albion fans up more than telling them they are a Birmingham club.

After a similar argument I once convinced a couple Baggies in the pub that the word "Bromwich" was actually derived from the word "Brummagem" and so really there club was West Birmingham. I didn't actually believe what I was saying myself but looking it up on wiki you do get the following....
"Brummagem (and historically also Bromichan, Bremicham and many similar variants, all essentially Bromwich·ham) is the local name for the city of Birmingham, England, and the dialect associated with it"
Still not sure I believe that though.

That's because it's not true. It derives from 'village of the broom' and refers to the plant of that name which grew in profusion in the original hamlet from which the town evolved.

So they're they're all Broomies then!

[Lee]

Anywhere north of Worcester and south of Stafford is in Birmingham as far as I'm concerned.

Stop taking the rise please

[dave.woodhall]

Anywhere north of Worcester and south of Stafford is in Birmingham as far as I'm concerned.

Stop taking the rise please

And that's from a Brummie.

[Brian Taylor]

Brom wich means the little village of the broom( a yellow flowering plant) allegedly. Birmingham came about in 1196 as a name when the de Bermes(berems, berums) got the trading rights to hold a fairs in the Bull ring and horsefair etc. making it the major centre.  Castle Bromwich had been a major denfensive point in the stone age but by Norman times was like West Bromwich a farming centre producing dairy and livestock and supplying grain etc to the growing Birmingham(Home of the de Bermes or Berems). Did the name originate as and come from Brom (or Berum as it may have been pronounced back then)? Try reading a bit of Chaucer in the original(1343-1400) and that was posh Middle English rather than the French that the Normans imposed upon us and spoke at court.
Commonly in local dialect it was known as Bromwich.. The Welsh Road was a main arterial trading route that ran through and fed Bromwich from Neolithic times with attendant cultural influence(probably explains why so many still go to Rhyl and Towyn for hols, sorry). So there you are we are/were the main Bromwich back then until the beginning of Industrial rev started to affect the urban areas shifted. The owners of Aston Manor were major landowners and took in little villages called Bromwich in their charters..it gets a bit strange in middle 1600's when John Dudley did some dirty deeds with Charles I about trading rights but they stuffed themselves over the railways for which Birmingham became main terminal and rather bigger as a result leaving Black Country dependant on canals for some crucial years. The West Bromwich backwater had to wait a while for tracks to be laid from Birmingham to bring them within municipal influence again...anyway the Home of the de Berums being the Big Brum, at the hub of outlying feeder villages, looks like they influenced matters for a long time prior to the invention of municpal boundaries.  Then Aston Villa were created...

West Bromwich is best known for production of the legendary Jensen motorcar but that has not been around since the 70's. Used to see a lot round town once. I won't go there.

[UK Redsox]

Its a good job Villa are playing just West Bromwich tomorrow. Considering the state of things at the moment, just imagine what would happen if they were playing the whole of Bromwich

[Comrade Blitz]

The Greater Birmingham Act is the answer to the original question:

In 1911 the area of the city was almost trebled by a further extension of its boundaries: under the Greater Birmingham Act the borough of Aston Manor, Erdington and Handsworth Urban Districts, most of King's Norton and Northfield Urban District (i.e. excluding Beoley, Rednal, Rubery, Wythall, and Cofton Hackett), and Yardley Rural District were brought within the city boundaries.

MP Liam Byrne mentioned this at a recent lecture here at the University of Birmingham. IIRC he said that the Act tripled the size of Brum.

See more at http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=22958

[Lee]

Anywhere north of Worcester and south of Stafford is in Birmingham as far as I'm concerned.

Stop taking the rise please

And that's from a Brummie.

Which one?

[Dave Cooper please]

The Hawthorns has never been part of Birmingham. The city boundary is said to run through what used to be the Woodman corner but that might be a myth.

No, this is correct, or at least it was in 1900, I think the boundary has moved a few yards nearer to Handsworth since.
I've got a copy of the 1900 map at home with the boundary running around the back of where the Smethwick End is now and down the side of the East Stand cutting through pretty much exactly where The Woodman used to be.

[The Left Side]

Top thread, thoroughly enjoyable... I don't think you would read this thread on a knuckledraggers thread, the author would be sent packing!

[dave.woodhall]

The Domesday Book of 1086 records that the village of Estone (meaning the east village or estate, although of what it was east is unknown), was held by Godmund, a Saxon, from William FitzAnsculf, a great lord based at Dudley. The population comprised 30 villeins, 12 bordars and one serf. During the early 13th and 14th centuries Aston Manor, then part of the county of Warwickshire, passed to the de Erdingtons and then the Grimsarwes, whose male line died out in the 15th century. The heiress of the family, Maude, married a wool merchant, John atte Holte, and the Manor stayed in the Holte family for some 400 years. At its peak Aston Manor stretched from Deritend to Water Orton, but the lack of suitable heirs during the late 18th century saw the estates falling into the hands of distant relatives, whose poor business investments led to their being divided and sold up. However, this availability of land helped Aston become a thriving industrial community.

In 1884 Aston Manor was granted its own MP and incorporated as a separate borough in 1903. Eight years later it became part of the city of Birmingham. 

[olaftab]

The first time I went to the Hawthorns I was surprised to see that it was in Sandwell, rather than West Bromwich.

Speaking historically there is no such thing as Sandwell.

[olaftab]

Its a good job Villa are playing just West Bromwich tomorrow. Considering the state of things at the moment, just imagine what would happen if they were playing the whole of Bromwich

That will never happen as Castle Bromwich will never  take  side against the Villa and I don't know what Little Bromwich will do!