Our Centre Halves

[Bad English]

[a5tonv111a@yahoo.co.uk]

Drop Dunne, he is making far to many costly mistakes. Replace him with Carlos and build the partnership with Collins. Davies??
 

[KevinGage]

Not nail on head at all.

Dunne's penchant for the fcuk up was in full effect long before Petrov and NRC became unavailable through injury.

Versus Newcastle, Stoke, Tottenham and Sunderland goals were scored as a direct result of a Dunne error and v Bolton at home he was pulled off at half time after a 'mare of a first half.

Though what looked bad that afternoon looks quite normal now.

There was a run of games before Reo got injured in which we looked pretty solid I'd argue. Bham, Sunderland, Fulham was there another one? The problem then was going forward.

To be honest we have huge problems. We can't continue to play a midfield where only one player can tackle. We aren't scoring goals, lose the ball in dangerous positions, both full backs are struggling and a heap of players are finished. This could get worse before it gets better imo as the ability to dig out a result seems to have disappeared.

I actually thought our midfield did OK last night.

I was as concerned as any when I seen the line up, but Hogg and Clark played with discipline -in so far as they didn't bomb forward and leave huge gaps. Hogg in particular impressed me. Didn't do anything spectacular with the ball but rarely (if ever) got caught in possession, kept the ball moving and dished out a few meaty tackles too. Clark was slightly less impressive, giving the ball away a few times but still good overall, certainly not a weak link.

The midfield held a decent line, Bannan being the only one who was really given licence to bomb forward -which is what he's more suited to, doing his best work in the oppositions half.

So the defence wasn't over exposed. For a long time they had very little to do as B-lose offered next to nothing going forward. But when they were needed they were found wanting. Again.

No midfield is so good that they can shield a poor defence for 90 minutes, so it would be unrealistic to expect ours to do so. Yet at present that's pretty much what they'd need to do to give us any chance of not conceding.

[KevinGage]

Whilst I don't agree in principle with having Cuellar at full-back due to his poor distribution, I'm not sure it is actually any worse than Luke Young's to be honest. Any notion that Young is some sort of attacking, passing full-back is totally lost on me. In fact, of all our defenders if you watch matches carefully, he is the most likely to hoof it aimlessly up the pitch. So we might as well put Cuellar in for his better defensive qualities. Luke Young isn't good enough for me and should be got rid of, though he is no means the most urgent candidate for binning - Carew, Ireland, Sidwell, Warnock and Dunne are a long way ahead in that queue...

It's not so much that L.Young is great with the ball at his feet and can spray around inch perfect mid/long range passes. It''s more a case that Cuellar (for all his other many fine qualities) is pretty close to horrific with the ball at his feet, a disaster waiting to happen.

[UsualSuspect]

Bannan isn't too small at all.  thats just rubbish.  ask Messi

I really rate Bannan but on Saturday he was out muscled off the ball twice by Arshavin who isn't exactly the incredible Hulk....

[Shrek]

Bannan isn't too small at all.  thats just rubbish.  ask Messi

I really rate Bannan but on Saturday he was out muscled off the ball twice by Arshavin who isn't exactly the incredible Hulk....

Arshavin has about 2 stone on Bannan, he is a real gem and will be quality in the next few years.

[Monty]

Bannan isn't too small at all.  thats just rubbish.  ask Messi

I really rate Bannan but on Saturday he was out muscled off the ball twice by Arshavin who isn't exactly the incredible Hulk....

He wasn't muscled off it, he was eased off it in the same way he eased 6'1'' Carrick off it a couple of weeks back - using the low centre of gravity to stand your ground and positioning your body in a certain way which looks a lot like muscling off the ball, but actually has nothing to do with strength per se.

On Luke Young, I am always frustrated by: his lack of positional sense in always getting sucked to the ball; his propensity to dive in all the time, sometimes dangerously, always stupidly; his inability to pass the ball sensibly and square instead of his usual hoof-up-the-line to nobody; his similar faults with throw-ins, which is one of the most frustrating things about our team full-stop (constantly, literally throwing possession away is holding us back so much); his inability to cross; his lack of  accuracy in the air. When people on here have told me he's a good player I've always been sceptical, and he put in two good performances at the beginning of the season and since has not been anywhere near good enough.

As for the centre-halves, I suppose we don't really have a choice at the moment, but as soon as Cuellar comes back he has to be given a chance. Both Dunne and Collins have been making quite bizarre errors for far too long now, and along with the inadequacies of both full-backs and the lack of experience at defensive midfield, we're leaking goals like a BP oil refinery.

[glasses]

I think its amazing how good players become in the views of fans when they are out of the team. Last season it was Luke Young, people on here were rejoicing when he was reinstated into the team this season, now are saying he isn't good enough. Cuellar all of a sudden is a defensive superhero because he isn't in the team, and people are even saying he should perhaps be considered at RB again. And Curtis Davies, who has been given a shocking time on here, people are now saying he should be recalled and trusted again! 

[TheSandman]

Yes but that might be because Dunne and Collins have been playing nothing like as well this season to the point that Davies might actually be less bad. Well less bad than Dunne (TBF I think I come in that category)

As for Luke Young most people called for him to come back based on his form in the previous season. When he first came in he did seem to be back to that form. And remember how bad Cuellar was on the ball. Look at how he played in the Carling Cup final and his gifting of a goal in the Burnley game. Personally I'd have him behind Young, Lichaj and Beye to play right back but in central defence there is less emphasis on using the ball well like that and if played with Clark that issue could be minimised though I'd still stick with Collins rather than move Clark.

I still see Warnock as a far more alarming problem that Young despite his improved game last night but that's just me.

It's not like these changes in peoples opinion have happened in a vacuum where Cuellar or Davies haven't been playing and that is the only factor. 

[peter w]

The problem with the defenders - especialy centre-halves is the amount of indecision when it comes to clearing their lines. It has been costing us goals. When you have a defence not being properly covered by the midfield then they tend to drop off and not commit to the ball too early as they could slip-up and let a player through.

Last night they were just plain poor but I think that has a lot to do with the indecision leading to a lack of confidence. I think that action needs to be taken to take one opr the other out of the firing line and I think that the fall-guy may be Collins although Dunne should be the one who is put on the bench.

The other thing to consider is that Dunee is a left-sided centre-half and is more comfortable using his left foot than Collins and Cuellar. That could also see Dunne saved.

[Merv]

I think its amazing how good players become in the views of fans when they are out of the team.

There's a bit of that, but also the fact that players are starting week in, week out and playing badly. When fit (!) we do have options and they deserve a chance if the current starters are struggling. As for Carlos - well, I think the guy can feel genuinely perturbed that, for a large amount of his Villa career, he's been overlooked at centre-back. He's generally been pretty strong there when given the chance.

[UsualSuspect]

wasnt muscled off but eased off??

FFS he was knocked off the ball twice, the same as he struggled physically against Burnley

Dont get me wrong he is a great prospect who i think will really flourish in a midfield 3 but a fact of life is that he will always struggle physically

[Damo70]

I think Cuellar and Collins are not only our best two centre halves but also would compliment each other given their playing styles. I spent last season defending Dunne but I'm all out of excuses for him now. We can't forget Clark in that position either. As for Davies, I havn't heard anything about his form for Leicester but who knows. I remember Crouch coming back from a loan spell at Norwich with his form and confidence restored. Then that pillock O' Leary decided Carlton Cole was a better option.

[Rancid custard]

Id definitely give Collins the armband for the short term, he cares, tries every game and always puts himself on the line, not consistent, but is dunne having the armband carte blanch to play every game?

[nipper]

I like Collins, think he gives it everything each game, whereas Dunne! Really losing patience with him now, he never really wanted to come here, looks well overweight, uninterested and his mistakes are now really totting up. If Cuellar's now fit again he's got to be given a go, please. My Leicester supporting mate(bless him) says Davies has been quality since he's been there, but then it is a lower division so i don't know. But please GH, drop Dunne and get him on a diet!