Houllier says Ireland Must Up His Game

[Reality]

Also: as for nailing my colours to the Ireland mast I don't think that stacks up.
I want him to do well, think he has talent to do well but I have my doubts about this move.

I just don't see the sense in reaching any conclusions re his effectiveness for us so early into his Villa career. You may think that unreasonable, but there it is.

Exactly. People nailing their colours to the Ireland mast is just expecting too much of the lad so early on. Let the lad play his football and if he wants to get there then he will do it of his own accord.

[pauliewalnuts]

Also: as for nailing my colours to the Ireland mast I don't think that stacks up.
I want him to do well, think he has talent to do well but I have my doubts about this move.

I just don't see the sense in reaching any conclusions re his effectiveness for us so early into his Villa career. You may think that unreasonable, but there it is.

Exactly. People nailing their colours to the Ireland mast is just expecting too much of the lad so early on. Let the lad play his football and if he wants to get there then he will do it of his own accord.

yup.

It's a pretty daft mistake to make when a player who got exactly the same kind of stick last season, Downing, has settled very well and is now amongst our best players.

You'd think people would learn.

[Somniloquism]

The trouble is when Downing was playing poorly there wasn't interviews with him stating how players deserve to be on stupid amount per week as there was just after Ireland signed. Every interview from Downing related to how he was looking forward to be able to play for us as well and saw us as a step up.

[Reality]

Also: as for nailing my colours to the Ireland mast I don't think that stacks up.
I want him to do well, think he has talent to do well but I have my doubts about this move.

I just don't see the sense in reaching any conclusions re his effectiveness for us so early into his Villa career. You may think that unreasonable, but there it is.

Exactly. People nailing their colours to the Ireland mast is just expecting too much of the lad so early on. Let the lad play his football and if he wants to get there then he will do it of his own accord.

yup.

It's a pretty daft mistake to make when a player who got exactly the same kind of stick last season, Downing, has settled very well and is now amongst our best players.

You'd think people would learn.

True.

There are some folk who expect him to immediately become this world superstar and fill Jimmys boots without a problem. It simply isn't going to happen so early on. It will be the same people complaining after he puts in a bad performance. All that does is create unnecessary pressure and moaning, which ironically enough will affect the type of player that Ireland is. He appears to take everything to heart.

[brontebilly]

There are bad performances and unacceptable ones. Ireland so far fits into the later category. I thought he was a great signing at the time, still has the talent but all the other attributes - desire, heart etc are missing at the moment. Unless he seriously changes his mindset then he is doomed to failure at Villa Park. You never know what a goal or two would bring though. Houllier's comments simply had to be said imo. Lets hope he takes it to heart and remembers that to be a good footballer all that matters is what happens inside the white lines.

[Mazrim]

Unacceptable is going a bit far, I think.
He's trying things, they're just not working yet and its frustrating for him.
He's letting it get to him a wee bit by the looks of it.

But as has been said, we've seen this already in very recent times with Young, Milner, Downing etc and they've all done well after indifferent periods early on so I'm not going to make a judgement on him any time soon until he's had a proper chance to gel and settle. Especially as this is his first real move.

Houllier obviously feels this is the way to get a positive response from him. We'll see how it turns out.
Christ knows we need one.

[KevinGage]

There are bad performances and unacceptable ones. Ireland so far fits into the later category. I thought he was a great signing at the time, still has the talent but all the other attributes - desire, heart etc are missing at the moment.

In most of the games I've seen so far he's trying. It's an easy tag to label at a player out of form, his hearts not in it et.c  He will always suffer in a direct comparison with a player like Milner when it comes to workrate and endeavour, most mere mortals would. This is obviously exacerbated when it's Milner who he's effectively replaced. As others have said, they aren't the same type of players, so the things I'd rather judge Ireland on would be the positions he takes up, the passes he makes and so on. In this area he's looked promising at times but I fully accept we need much more from him.  I'd like to see him given a chance to play himself into form, and that can only happen after a run of games. Not one 90 minutes and four other bit part roles.

Houllier's comments simply had to be said imo. Lets hope he takes it to heart and remembers that to be a good footballer all that matters is what happens inside the white lines.

We'll see in the fullness of time but everything about Ireland to date indicates that he's not a player who responds to digs via the press or goading. Truth be told I couldn't give a shit about his feelings. I think it strange that a 24 year old professional footballer could be such a delicate flower. That said, I want Aston Villa to be the beneficiaries of any good form or talent he can bring to the table, so I don't want us to sink our own boat with piss poor attempts at cod psychology via the media.

Who knows, we could be hailing it as a masterstroke by GH in a few weeks.

But I'm more inclined to think it's either a heavy handed attempt to get a reaction or that GH has already decided that he doesn't need him and has started the process of ostracising him from first team affairs. We're not party to what goes on in training, perhaps he looks like he just doesn't fancy it.

It wouldn't actually surprise me if he was sent out on loan this Jan. But I think/ hope he has enough about him to turn it around. He could still be a very big player for us this season.

[taylorsworkrate]

Eventually I'd like to see Ireland with NRC and Delph in a middle 3. With Downing & Young on the wings.

Yes, Yes and Yes.

[Chris Smith]

Lot's of words but saying very little.

Come on Smudger, you can do better than that.

Or maybe you can't.

But I suppose I'll take saying very little (or more accurately questioning why someone normally so tolerant of piss poor performances from either players or management has suddenly done a complete volte-face) in contrast to your frequently and consistently getting it so very, very wrong.

DOL, MON and weren't you pretty much adamant that Milner wouldn't leave us because he was 'different?'   Have you still got that article from his old school teacher that formed the basis of your steadfast belief?

 Your track record is not that hot, lets face it.

Waffle and obfuscation.

The argument was about who got the better of the deal.

From a Man City perspective they got the player they wanted, got rid of one that under the new regulations they couldn't keep and who had been underperforming for 12 months and spent some cash which is small change to them.

We lost our most influential player signed one who doesn't adequately replace him and got some money that we might get to spend in the future.

I just don't see how any sensible case can be made for us having the better of it.

As to Ireland himself, I said above that I haven't written him off. I'll give him time to come good but he's not the player that James Milner is. He's got the added issue that where he seems to prefer playing he has to compete with Ashley Young who Houllier seems to rate in that position.

[Merv]

I'll give it a little longer than two and a bit months at the club, one full 90 minutes and four other starts before I make that kind of call.

Absolutely. It's pretty hard for the guy to show any kind of form when he's been played so sporadically. I have faith in Ireland; if he's given the chance to flourish he can give us so much.

[KevinGage]

Lot's of words but saying very little.

Come on Smudger, you can do better than that.

Or maybe you can't.

But I suppose I'll take saying very little (or more accurately questioning why someone normally so tolerant of piss poor performances from either players or management has suddenly done a complete volte-face) in contrast to your frequently and consistently getting it so very, very wrong.

DOL, MON and weren't you pretty much adamant that Milner wouldn't leave us because he was 'different?'   Have you still got that article from his old school teacher that formed the basis of your steadfast belief?

 Your track record is not that hot, lets face it.

Waffle and obfuscation.

The argument was about who got the better of the deal.

This one is, yes. But you must see the irony in you of all people telling others they are wrong (again) with your track record.

I just don't see how any sensible case can be made for us having the better of it.

And I don't see how the verdict can be in so soon. Both players are the same age, both careers have followed a similar trajectory to date. Agree to disagree?

[Merv]

I just don't see how any sensible case can be made for us having the better of it.

As of today, it doesn't look like we have got the better end of the deal - although you could argue that we got a massively inflated fee for a player who looks distinctly average at present for City, playing anywhere but the position in which he excelled in last season, graduated to the England squad, etc.

But anyway. I'll put a sensible case forward: in six months time, we're getting the best out of Stephen Ireland, and we've spent a good proportion of the remainder of the Milner fee on another top-class midfielder. That scenario, surely, is not beyond the realms of possibility?

I have to say, my doubts are not about Ireland's ability, but Houllier's assessment and opinion of him. If he just doesn't see a future for the player at Villa, there's not a lot anyone can do about it. And that would be a real shame.

[Risso]

If we're ever going to lift ourselves out of the doldrums and banish the turgid football that has dogged us for ages now, we're going to need a player like Ireland to be at the top of his game.  Houllier needs to work out how to get the best out of him, as the team just isn't looking at all effective going forward at the moment.

[VillaZogmariner]

I think one of the problems facing Ireland is the fact that he was signed as part of the Milner deal, and a lot of fans will be expecting him to be a similar sort of player, when he clearly isn't.

As I've said before, his best time at Man City was as part of a quick front three with Robinho and Bellamy, so to recreate that we need to play him in a simlar position. Something like this -

---Ireland--------------Young---
------------Agbonlahor-----------

Of course we'd then need to put three more disciplined midfielders behind them. So with our squad that would best being -

---Petrov------------------NRC---
---------------Delph---------------
---Ireland--------------Young---
------------Agbonlahor-----------

Of course, as it stands we don't have the personnel available to do that, so we are not playing him where suits him best. That formation is also pretty cruel on Downing and Albrighton who have been a couple of our better performers so far.

[Mazrim]

Spot on, Merv and Risso.