Houllier says Ireland Must Up His Game

[KevinGage]

'fraid not ace.

NRC was the regular starter at RM in 08/09 during the early part of the campaign -even bagging a few goals.

[Chris Smith]

The general consensus at the time was that we were getting the better end of the deal.

That was of course dependant on Ireland playing somewhere close to his form of 08/09.
Still far too early (and quite frankly ridiculous) to write him off as bad buy.

In theory he's still got plenty of time to turn it around. That's if he wants to be here. If not that's a different matter altogether.

The general consenus was clearly wrong (again).

I'll give it a little longer than two and a bit months at the club, one full 90 minutes and four other starts before I make that kind of call.

Whilst we're on the subject of Milner comparisons, he wasn't a regular starter when he came back in 08/09 either. It was only in Nov/ Dec that he cemented a place as a first team regular - and even after that his form was up and down.

You already made the call by being part of the 'consensus' who claimed we had the better of the deal. We might one day have a decent player but I'd sooner have Milner any day of the week.

[Chris Smith]

'fraid not ace.

NRC was the regular starter at RM in 08/09 during the early part of the campaign -even bagging a few goals.

A few?

1 league goal in 68 games.

[N'ZMAV]

he meant bookings.

[Clampy]

The general consensus at the time was that we were getting the better end of the deal.

That was of course dependant on Ireland playing somewhere close to his form of 08/09.
Still far too early (and quite frankly ridiculous) to write him off as bad buy.

In theory he's still got plenty of time to turn it around. That's if he wants to be here. If not that's a different matter altogether.

The general consenus was clearly wrong (again).

I'll give it a little longer than two and a bit months at the club, one full 90 minutes and four other starts before I make that kind of call.

Whilst we're on the subject of Milner comparisons, he wasn't a regular starter when he came back in 08/09 either. It was only in Nov/ Dec that he cemented a place as a first team regular - and even after that his form was up and down.

You already made the call by being part of the 'consensus' who claimed we had the better of the deal. We might one day have a decent player but I'd sooner have Milner any day of the week.

Yes, i'd rather have Milner as well, but he wanted to go and pick up a stupid amount of money elsewhere and Ireland agreed to come here. I'm happy to give him longer than 2 months as well. We gave Petrov 2 years after all.

[KevinGage]

And that's fine.

You see Ireland's arrival/ Milner's departure as intertwined with the departure of MON.  As you were distraught to see the latter depart it's understandable that Ireland will have some way to go to win you over.

[KevinGage]

'fraid not ace.

NRC was the regular starter at RM in 08/09 during the early part of the campaign -even bagging a few goals.

A few?

1 league goal in 68 games.

Who said league goals?

One v Spurs and one v Litex away - both early in that campaign.

[Chris Smith]

And that's fine.

You see Ireland's arrival/ Milner's departure as intertwined with the departure of MON.  As you were distraught to see the latter depart it's understandable that Ireland will have some way to go to win you over.

That's bollocks.

Ireland has someway to go to win me over because he hasn't performed for us.

I haven't written him off, I hope he'll come good but I was sceptical when we were linked with him well before MON left and argued the case on here because I see him as lightweight and a bit flakey. However, the argument here is about us getting the better of the deal and that's just wishful thinking, I'm afraid. Milner is twice the player.

[PeterWithesShin]

Milner made 31 starts and 5 sub appearances in the league for us in 08/09, having already played 2 league games for Newcastle according to Soccerbase.

[jeowje]

Doubtless been posted before on here or at least similar, but having only just watched it, i'm optimistic again...

[D.boy]

From watching that clip again it's clear Irelands best position is in the middle just behind the striker. We haven't seen him play with Gabby up front yet and I think Gabby will benefit greatly from the threaded through ball. Ireland certainly has the brain/vision to play the defence splitting pass that we have lacked for so long. Milner did it on a few occasions.

[KevinGage]

And that's fine.

You see Ireland's arrival/ Milner's departure as intertwined with the departure of MON.  As you were distraught to see the latter depart it's understandable that Ireland will have some way to go to win you over.

That's bollocks.

Ireland has someway to go to win me over because he hasn't performed for us.

I haven't written him off, I hope he'll come good but I was sceptical when we were linked with him well before MON left and argued the case on here because I see him as lightweight and a bit flakey. However, the argument here is about us getting the better of the deal and that's just wishful thinking, I'm afraid. Milner is twice the player.

Whenever these debates come around you are the normally the one preaching patience and advising against criticism of new players only in the door, snap judgements and the like. Usually mocking those making said judgements.

Yet now in the case of Ireland you already know without question that he won't be as effective as Milner was for us and you're quite comfortable criticising him. You've already decided that those who thought we were getting the better end of the deal are wrong. Again apparently (when were the other occasions, out of interest?) No grey area there, no wait and see. After two and a bit months at the club the verdict is in.

You'll forgive me if I'm sceptical that this change of approach has absolutely nothing to do with the circumstances that brought Ireland to the club. And that a player who joined in less acrimonious circumstances-  ie not against the backdrop of MON's departure- might have been allotted your usual Good Vicar routine after a slow start.

It could well be that Ireland doesn't turn out to be half the player Milner was for us. But in their careers to date their impact and contribution has been about par. Good periods in a few seasons but only one consistently good season each at present, Ireland in 08/09 and Milner in 09/10. Milner is the more reliable character, more stable even. But Ireland the more talented.

 For that reason I don't see how anyone can come to the certain conclusion that Milner for Ireland + cash can't be the better end of the deal - we're barely a third of the way through the season.

[Chris Smith]

Lot's of words but saying very little.

When we were first linked with Ireland many months ago I had the same concerns that I have now. I said he was lightweight and got taken to task for calling him border line mental. It's absoulutely nothing to do with O'Neill. I've also said that he's a talented footballer but at the moment he's not showing it and it appears that our manager has come to a similar conclusion. You've nailed your colours to the Ireland mast so I can see why you don't want to show any doubt but so far he's been everything I thought he might be meanwhile Milner has settled straight in at Man City.

[pauliewalnuts]

Lot's of words but saying very little.

When we were first linked with Ireland many months ago I had the same concerns that I have now. I said he was lightweight and got taken to task for calling him border line mental. It's absoulutely nothing to do with O'Neill. I've also said that he's a talented footballer but at the moment he's not showing it and it appears that our manager has come to a similar conclusion. You've nailed your colours to the Ireland mast so I can see why you don't want to show any doubt but so far he's been everything I thought he might be meanwhile Milner has settled straight in at Man City.

If you look at what Man City fans are saying, Milner hasn't really made much of an impact at Man City.

I take your point, Chris, you did indeed say those things you said about Ireland before he joined, but you also used to say (when we'd signed the likes of Harewood and Heskey) that you'd wait until you saw what the players did in a Villa shirt before judging them.

If that was your standpoint then, and still is now, then surely you need to be giving Ireland a bit more time to show his stuff?

[Reality]

The issue with Ireland is that he has a habit of going missing for large parts of the game. That is why Houllier called him out the other day. Was it wise? I certainly do not know, as the lad obviously isn't all there.