How low can we go?

[Concrete John]

When you say how low can we go, do you mean how low do we go before calling for the manager to be sacked ?
This sounds like the sort of debate crappy Talksport does.

Nothing so dramatic.

As I said in the post above, how low can we go before we stop using the excuse of a transitional season and say we've been crap and not done as well as we should have given the resources, current squad and January funds, available.

[Mister E]

This season's key challenges for me are: (i) making good use of the assets available to us (RL's dosh, the current first-team and fringe players, developing the assets in the youff set-up) and (ii) establishing the platform for a future that includes better scouting and a more attractive destination-club for the top-echelon players that we perhaps have not attracted in the past.
If we can address these issues during the course of this season and maintain a upper-mid table position then that'll be progress.
Right now the challenge on the pitch is scoring goals! - how do we address that?!

Re the comment above from Lovejoy about 6th and MON: it is hghly debatable that we'd be shooting for 6th with MON in charge - he was a spent force, he'd taken us as far as he could and I think we'd be looking at 12th / 13th under him ... not much different than likely now (but with the difference that we can make the sort of progress outlined above re addressing the key challenges).

[Villafirst]

Our away form is very poor. We haven't really played anyone of note (maybe Spurs). We have become easy to beat away from home. Whatever you say about MON, we were always hard to beat on our travels when he was in charge.

I can see a low fnish this year - may be 12th or 13th. God knows why Dunne is infront of Cuellar at the moment. Houllier seems to be applying similar treatment to Carlos as MON did with NRC, Luke Young etc.

Who will be the full-backs against Blues? I think Luke Young is out injured and Warnock will be banned after picking up 5 yellow cards.

[Irish villain]

We all know it was really crap what MON did to us. He walked out at a time when we were about to lose possibly our best player and it was clear that some senior players were nearing the end of their careers with villa.

As I see it, the squad needs rebuilding. It can rebuilt around the likes of Albrighton, Gabby, Ireland, Downing and possibly Reo-Coker and maybe Clark long-term. The signs haven't been great from Dunne, it looks like GH doesn't fancy Cueller and we'll get a few seasons out of Luke Young and Collins for sure while we are in transition. Friedal can't go on forever so that's somethign that will need looking at in the next year or two and we will need a top class finisher.

All in all, there's an awful lot of work to be done and staying in the top ten while it's done will ne necessary if we're to push on after the transition! You might notice I haven't mentioned Ashley Young. On another thread I said we should do whatever it takes to keep him. I am not sure we can afford to have both Ashley and Ireland in the team and would rather we cashed in on Ireland than Ash. That said, the reality of football suggests it'll be Ash we'll be forced to do without which quite frankly is a kick in the nuts.

[Concrete John]

it is hghly debatable that we'd be shooting for 6th with MON in charge - he was a spent force, he'd taken us as far as he could and I think we'd be looking at 12th / 13th under him

It's not what this thread is supposed to be about, but can I just say that I 100% do not agree with that!

[Mister E]

it is hghly debatable that we'd be shooting for 6th with MON in charge - he was a spent force, he'd taken us as far as he could and I think we'd be looking at 12th / 13th under him

It's not what this thread is supposed to be about, but can I just say that I 100% do not agree with that!

Fair enough John.

[lovejoy]

it is hghly debatable that we'd be shooting for 6th with MON in charge - he was a spent force, he'd taken us as far as he could and I think we'd be looking at 12th / 13th under him

It's not what this thread is supposed to be about, but can I just say that I 100% do not agree with that!

Fair enough John.

That's a big call. We had 6th, 6th and 6th with two Wembley appearances but with a Milner for Ireland swap you think we'd drop to 12th/13th. Clearly all subjective but I think you hatred of the man is clouding your objectivity.

[robbo1874]

Can we go, or will we go?

I reckon we'll finish 7th or 8th. Unlikely it will be the usual season of two halves, so although we haven't had a great 1st half to the season so far, I'm hoping we won't hit the wall after new years as we have done the last few seasons.

Not expecting any massive signings in Jan and looks as if we can put a decent side out most weeks with the players we have, so 7/8th is realistic as far as I'm concerned.

[mshurst]

As many pre-season posts said, I'm happy to finish mid-table this season.

After O'Neill walking out, getting only Ireland in (after losing our best asset from last season), and the great introduction of many younger/fringe players, I'll be happy.

Let's face it ... Albrighton is a starting player now. He's done extremely well this season. Under O'Neill, he wouldn't get second chance. Same with players like L. Young, Clark, Beye, who didn't even get close to breaking the first team.


Although I'm saying that, I think with GH behind the wheel, a few quid to spend in January (FYI, I'm not talking £20m, maybe a handful to get a new striker/defender/long-term Petrov replacement), and a major confidence boost of progressing in the cup(s), I think we can quite easily get 6th again.


As long as we finish above WBA then I'll be happy, too! I couldn't stand a whole summer of the missus gloating about how they're the best Midlands club. She won't shuttup already, and we're only 9 games in.

[Pete3206]

The worrying thing is that we've only played one really good team so far. Four defeats against very average sides seems to indicate that a mid table finish is the best we can hope for.

However, if we can pick up enough points to stay in the top half before January and then sign some forward players, there's no reason why we can't push for top six again. Getting players in is easier said than done though isn't it?

[Mister E]

it is hghly debatable that we'd be shooting for 6th with MON in charge - he was a spent force, he'd taken us as far as he could and I think we'd be looking at 12th / 13th under him

It's not what this thread is supposed to be about, but can I just say that I 100% do not agree with that!

Fair enough John.

That's a big call. We had 6th, 6th and 6th with two Wembley appearances but with a Milner for Ireland swap you think we'd drop to 12th/13th. Clearly all subjective but I think you hatred of the man is clouding your objectivity.

Hatred? - hardly! you said it, not me. FWIW, I was a big fan of MON but feel that he was reaching his sell-by date ... and I do think that the manner of his departure was both spiteful and vindictive (words I've used on other threads consistently)
The point I was trying to make is this: whilst the achievements of the last three-four seasons are good - and last season we did do well , with the two Wembley appearances - nothing stays the same. Relatively, I think we were bound to struggle, compared to our peers, with the loss of Milner and Barry (over two seasons) without similar or better players. Many of our peers have improved their squads.
This season would have been tough for MON; we'd have almost-certainly gone backwards simply because we have not kept pace with the competition.
That's my view.

[pauliewalnuts]

We finished 6th, 6th and 6th under Martin O'Neill and people on this Forum called for him to leave. For me if we finish below 6th it will show people were wrong to call for his head.
Lower than 6th is regression surely? If we finish above 6th I will be the first to say I was wrong to criticise those calling for MON's head, deal?

That's wrong on so many levels.

MON had been here four years, had one of the most supportive owners in the league backing him over that period and had built the squad and team to his own preferences.

He then flounced off a week before the start of the season, leaving the club to scrabble around for a new manager (whilst the transfer window closed), who eventually took over a few weeks into the season and is now having to start from scratch - get to know the squad, get his coaching techniques in place, start to build things his way.

It is grossly unfair to suggest that anything less than last season's achievement is regression and therefore people were wrong to criticise MON.

Also, what people thought or said about MON doesn't really come into creating the situation we have this season - he wasn't sacked, he wasn't pushed out by supporters, he left - his choice, at a time he selected.

[richardhubbard]

I think we will finish between 8th and 10th but hopefully win a cup

[pauliewalnuts]

The worrying thing is that we've only played one really good team so far. Four defeats against very average sides seems to indicate that a mid table finish is the best we can hope for.

Spurs = good team away from home
Chelsea = best team in the country at home
Stoke = very difficult place to go and get anything.
Wolves away = not the easiest place to go, but we won.

[robbo1874]

Agree Paulie

didn't see the spurs match, but by all accounts we were pretty good until Heskey went off injured, and yes we lost, but we didn't exactly get battered. 2-1 at Spurs isn't a massive fail.

0-0 against Chelsea. Not sure what others think, but we had the chances to win that one. And yes, they could and should have scored at the end with that Anelka header, but they didn't.

Wolves was a solid performance, pretty good first half, up against it second half. Away win.