January Transfer Window - Rumours, Links, B*llsh*t and Made-Up Nonsense

[Monty]

Monty, if you are signing a striker the sole concern is that the striker strikes.  If he has other attributes to his game all well and good but above all else he has to score goals. 

Rooney is getting away with it at the moment because Berbatov is finding his form but I don't doubt for one minute that Rooney's lack of goals is a concern for ManU.

Alternatively, if you look at all the top strikers at the top clubs right now, none of them is an out-and-out finisher and hasn't been for nearly a decade now, since the heyday of Inzaghi. Same applies in all positions: if you can only do one thing, that's not good enough. Look at the examples of Juan Roman Riquelme and Lee Cattermole: one can only create while the other can only spoil in midfield, so neither is of much use to a top club chasing titles. Riquelme should be able to close down (if not exactly defend) and Cattermole should be able to pass very well (if not exactly make the play), but they can't and therefore neither will/would have ever found a home at a really top club.

Fair point, Monty, but if his overall game is good and he doesn't score the goals he'll be considered a flop.   

He'll need to score some goals, that's for sure, as you can't just be one or the other at the top (Heskey or Owen, for instance) - you have to be both.

[ozzjim]

Monty, if you are signing a striker the sole concern is that the striker strikes.  If he has other attributes to his game all well and good but above all else he has to score goals. 

Rooney is getting away with it at the moment because Berbatov is finding his form but I don't doubt for one minute that Rooney's lack of goals is a concern for ManU.

Alternatively, if you look at all the top strikers at the top clubs right now, none of them is an out-and-out finisher and hasn't been for nearly a decade now, since the heyday of Inzaghi. Same applies in all positions: if you can only do one thing, that's not good enough. Look at the examples of Juan Roman Riquelme and Lee Cattermole: one can only create while the other can only spoil in midfield, so neither is of much use to a top club chasing titles. Riquelme should be able to close down (if not exactly defend) and Cattermole should be able to pass very well (if not exactly make the play), but they can't and therefore neither will/would have ever found a home at a really top club.

Fair point, Monty, but if his overall game is good and he doesn't score the goals he'll be considered a flop.   

He'll need to score some goals, that's for sure, as you can't just be one or the other at the top (Heskey or Owen, for instance) - you have to be both.

Hernandez and Owen are both essentially just finishers.

[Mazrim]

if you can only do one thing, that's not good enough.

Unless that one thing is score goals, in which case, it is. Not only is it good enough but it makes you a very expensive asset.

[The Situation]

Hernandez is quality though.

One of the best summer signings.

[ozzjim]

Hernandez is quality though.

One of the best summer signings.

Pound for pound best signing of the season by a long, long way IMO. Sensational in front of goal.

[Monty]

Owen is clearly not a 'top' striker at United, for starters. His tactical role is largely to come off the bench if United are chasing a goal.

Hernandez drifts wide and drops deep, and is still young and will doubtless learn more of an all-round game in future.

Maz, I know we've been over this before, but you need more than goals from a top striker at the highest level. Over the last 5 seasons or so a team's needed at least 60 goals to finish top four. Now, assume you're playing 4-4-2 with these finishers up front, and the whole team is geared to them scoring the goals. At best, one will get around 20, the other around 15-20 (20 being very optimistic). Where are your other 20-25 goals coming from? If your team is set up around these players scoring (which, if they're pure finishers it has to be as they're contributing nothing else), that means you have to account for their defensive deficiencies and actually you tend to end up playing quite reactive, counter-attacking football - not conducive to getting goals from other areas of the pitch.

Besides, 4-4-2 will leave you short of the numbers in midfield to retain the ball (before anyone brings them up, at Man Utd both Berbatov and Rooney drop deep into midfield and Giggs comes inside, so their 4-4-2 is hardly conventional). So you drop one of your forwards to play 4-5-1/4-3-3 to try and keep the ball more and lo and behold, you've lost the 15-20 goals the other striker gave you, but your current lone forward is too limited to help the build up play in any meaningful way which helps other players to score and fill that gap.

In short, to play that lone-forward role at the top, you can't be an Emile Heskey and be goalless, but you can't be a Michael Owen either - you have to be both, ie Drogba.

[Risso]

I have to disagree slightly with Monty.  You can get away with "just" being a clinical finisher if you're partnered with somebody who is more of an all round player.  Look at partnerships like Andy Cole and Sheringham, even Rooney and Berbatov.

[Monty]

I have to disagree slightly with Monty.  You can get away with "just" being a clinical finisher if you're partnered with somebody who is more of an all round player.  Look at partnerships like Andy Cole and Sheringham, even Rooney and Berbatov.

Then you run into the 4-4-2 problem at the higher levels (neither Rooney nor Berbatov could possibly be called a pure finisher, surely).

[Mister E]

I think the biggest risk to Liverpool's investment is the character they've bought. Carroll seems to have all the hallmark of another Duncan Ferguson - fatally flawed by being a nasty thug.
There's no doubt he can score goals but can he handle the real big time with a £35m price tag around his neck.

All of the anti-Bent sentiment (a la H Winter) seems to me to be a product either of some pretty snidy behind-the-scenes briefing (MON?) or of the fact that the deal was kept so secret that everyone's response has to be to question it.
Anyone now questioning it seems, to me, to look rather foolish given the prices for Torres and Carroll.

[garyshawsknee]

The ever-diminishing in my eyes Henry Winter:

So ignore, if possible, the inflated fee. English players are invariably overpriced. But Carroll has a swagger that should make him thrive the higher he climbs. Unlike the £24 million Bent, Carroll contributes even when not scoring. He closes down, he links, he creates, he clears when back for corners.

Creates? CREATES? If your idea of creating is a knock-down from a long-ball, then sure, he creates. For the love of god, you'd think he were talking about David bloody Villa, not a less intelligent version of Kevin Davies. Besides, Bent does contribute when not scoring, as his channel-running and high-pressure against Wigan testifies. Mind you, I wonder what they'd be saying if it were the other way around? The favouritism is utterly naked.

Edit: in the previous paragraph he says "There was something in the way he strolled into England training before last year’s France friendly that hinted at a class apart, an aura. Where Ashley Young and Darren Bent seemed inhibited, Carroll flourished." That's just a straightforward dig.

I find HW view of Bent really harsh,i know he's not got the skills of someone like Bergkamp,but not many have. He makes create runs,streches a back four,great finisher,and he runs his arse of every game ive seen him play. If we hadnt bought him probably Liverpool wouldve now,wonder what HW wouldve said then,after he'd taken King Kenny's cock out of his mouth obviously.

[The Situation]

Hernandez is quality though.

One of the best summer signings.

Pound for pound best signing of the season by a long, long way IMO. Sensational in front of goal.

Totally agree.

[Risso]

Let's just finish above Liverpool on the back of a glut of Bent goals, and then we can exude a quiet sense of superiority and just ignore twats like Winter.

[Mister E]

And as for Bent's all-round play, what do you think happens when he takes the opposition's defenders for a run down one of the channels? - it opens up opportunities for other players to move into the space and create / score goals. Bent is not a pygmy! - he too can play knock-downs and win headers / flick-ons. The only comment about which H Winter might be right is his tracking-back ... not a strong suit admittedly; which is why the centre 2 / 3 midfielders need to have good tackling / marking skills. Bradley, Makoun, NRC, Delph and even Petrov can all do this well.

[Mazrim]

I think you over complicate things sometimes Monty. I'm a student of tactics and strategy (albeit military) and I appreciate the attention to detail and minutiae. But essentially football games are won and lost on goals. Of course, we all love the variety in the game but it is essentially all about goals at the base level.

When it comes to being "just a goalscorer", fans will forgive anything else they lack. Anything.
They do have to score a fair amount of goals though.
And you only have to have one of these types of player.

In any case, I think its a moot point as I dont think we have one because Bent's general play is actually quite good. All these myths about not having anything else to his game is bollocks. He holds the ball up, involves others, rarely gives the ball away and is always available in areas that hurt the oppostition. Its something we've been crying out for. For a long time.

But if you were to say who is the closest player to the description (offers little else except goals) it would probably be Bent and thank christ we have him.
The fact we had to pay through the nose for him reinforces my point. Goalscorers, no matter what else they bring, cost lots and lots of money. Why? Because they are so important and essentially for the fact they score goals, not their general play.

[Rip Van We Go Again]

I didn't realise that spitty boy had gone to Rangers.
Wait till the Celtic fans get hold of him.

bbc.co.uk/football

Rangers have completed a loan deal to sign former African footballer of the year El Hadji Diouf, 30, from Blackburn until the end of the season.

Diouf's ability to play right-midfield or as a striker fills gaps identified recently by Ibrox manager Walter Smith.

He told the Rangers website: "I am very happy to join one of the biggest clubs in the world.

"This club has a great history. It will be great to wear the shirt and I will do my best."

Diouf joined Liverpool in 2002 from Lens then moved to Bolton, Sunderland in 2008 and Ewood Park a year later.

While at Liverpool, he was fined £5,000 for spitting on a Celtic fan during a Uefa Cup match in March 2003.