Thank you Mr O'Neill

[ktvillan]

I've seen plenty of managers come and go. They've gone before, during and after the season. It's a fact of life for football clubs and they just have to deal with it. Wallowing in self pity doesn't help and threads like this are just making excuses. We need some leadership and we're not getting it. Not from Lerner, not from Faulkner and not from MacDonald or the senior players.

Do something about it.

We haven't had too many managers come and go since the transfer windows were introduced though have we?  Certainly none that have left mid-season or so near to the end of the window.  In the past any new manager would have been able to bring players in straight away, any time during the season.  Thanks largely to O'Neill we are stuck with what we have until January by the looks of it.  Although Randy and Co. have to share the blame, they should have appointed someone by now.

[Nev]

If he had his reasons for going - can't take us further / whatever - then let alone wonder what happened between May and August, you've got to wonder what happened between Saturday and Monday.

Paul Faulkner (sp)?. I have a hunch, and that is all, that there was a clash between him and MON over the Milner deal

My theory is that MON didn't want Stephen Ireland and was told he had to have him, and at that flounced out. The club needed the money after the lack of sales during the summer and this may have been thrown at MON in an effort to push through the deal.

And as for MON being called a "fool" in a post further back, this just shows how people have lost all perspective on this issue.

[Chris Smith]

I cant help feeling that MON knew we were that player or 2 short to take us to the next level and when he was not allowed get them he walked.

Like a spoilt children wanting new toys but there's no room left in his cupboard, he refused to get rid of the ones he no longer used and insisted his parents move to a bigger house with a bigger cupboard to store his old toys.

There's no evidence that he refused to get rid of them, it's just the salesman we employed to do it wasn't up to it.

You say there's no evidence he refused to get rid of them, but then say it is the fault of the "salesman" - something else for which - by the same measure - there is no evidence.

Maybe they're so rubbish that nobody wanted to buy them? Evidence of last night certainly seems to back that up for some of them.

I was using salesman as shorthand for the club as a whole being unable to shift them to refute the idea that O'Neill somehow stopped them from leaving. Young and Sidwell were both close to moves and Shorey did go.

[dave.woodhall]

And as for MON being called a "fool" in a post further back, this just shows how people have lost all perspective on this issue.

That's true. One thing O'Neill definitely isn't is a fool.

[Concrete John]

I cant help feeling that MON knew we were that player or 2 short to take us to the next level and when he was not allowed get them he walked.

Like a spoilt children wanting new toys but there's no room left in his cupboard, he refused to get rid of the ones he no longer used and insisted his parents move to a bigger house with a bigger cupboard to store his old toys.

Or a pragmatic man who thought I can't bring this team any further, time to hand it over to someone else?

The ideal time to do this was May of course. Why didn't he? Only thing that adds up is that he was given assurances and these were reneged on.

Anyway, this debate of whether MON is at fault doesnt do much for our current plight. However, if there is a grain of truth to my theory (and I freely admit that's all it is) it has major implications for the future of the club.

The General said that on the Saturday, MON and Randy spoke, everything was fine, Randy then flew back to the US, only to be told on the Monday that MON had bailed.

If he had his reasons for going - can't take us further / whatever - then let alone wonder what happened between May and August, you've got to wonder what happened between Saturday and Monday.

If I had to put my own 'reading between the lines' take on it, this is what I think happened:-

Martin knew of buy to sell in May, and most likely before, and accepted it.  Fastforward to August and he's getting frustrated that the players to go are still here and that's stopping him from buying.  This is when his football head starts overiding his business sense as he wants to continue building the side up and improve it.  I think he could deal with Randy and had respect for him, but not so much for Faulkner.  He's frustrated that his plans are being blocked and maybe Faulkner wasn't playing up to his ego, which is understandable being a non-football person and unused to volatile managers whose decisions don't always marry with good business sense.  It all boils over, maybe something to do with the Milner deal.

No conspiracy, no trying to shaft the club and no moving of goal posts.  Just the breakdown of a relationship that ultimately lead to Martin deciding he could no longer take the club forward as he wanted.  As I said before, both parties are probably to blame and both at fault for not realising there was a problem and addressing it earlier.   

[sfx412]

Randy does have all the time he wants surely especially as there is no game for 2 weeks.
The longer he takes the more the possibility he will get the right man at the right price.
Of course if he still goes for a lame option after taking so long, then he will deserve every criticism he gets

[jonzy85]

RL did address the problem short term Km the one remaining coach got the job.
I also thought General K had suggested mon didn't seem keen to unload several players in one of his comments post Mon's departure.
Strange how criticising Mon and in time being proved nearly 100% right gets you branded as hating him, which I most certainly don't, yet still trying to shift blame off him now he's been found out doesn't make you one of his idolisers.

Firstly, didnt MON make 6 of those players available for transfer at the start of the summer?

Secondly, how have you been proved 100% right in your criticism of him? If anything this week has shown that by getting this group of players to 6th last year means that he was under-appreciated by some.

Incidentally, if Ireland was forced on him by the board, I can understand why he would walk.

I think Ireland is a great signing, but if MON didnt want him and he was forced to take him, I dont think he had much choice.

Again, it's all conjecture.

[sfx412]

you are right to criticise my use of the word fool to descibe Mon.

I should have said twat

[Lucky Eddie]

Gutted as I am; I really, REALLY couldn't afford two or three away games in Europe before Christmas. My credit card don't need it so you did me a favour Villa.

I just hope I'm still young enought to fully enjoy our next European campaign 

[sfx412]

I often said he was a lucky manager and had done well to achieve 6th so often but I and man others have been shown to have sussed him out from day one, even down to the manner of his departure.
But that's now water under the bridge he ran off and left us in a mess, he wasn't sacked, he didn't leave a squad full of experienced top players after such a big spend and it now seems he didn't have the backing of all his players, so why still try to make him out to be what he blatantly was not.

[Nev]

you are right to criticise my use of the word fool to descibe Mon.

I should have said twat

I hope we appoint another twat then, one that improves the club season on season and gets us to Wembley for a major final.

It would appear MON's decision to walk out has wiped the previous four years from some peoples memories.

And I say this not as a MON fan or Lerner fan or anybody else for that matter, but as a Villa fan. And as such I went the best available people working at the club from the chairman to the tea lady regardless of who they are. Without MON we are in a worse position from a football point of view, unless we bring in someone who is an improvement, and from the names touted, that is not very likely. And until both sides of the story have been revealed I will reserve judgement on MON's decision to walk.

[Concrete John]

If people want to slag MON for leaving then fair enough.  But conclusions, either right or wrong, about his character have nothing to do with his ability as a football manager.   

[Rudy Can't Fail]

Incidentally, if Ireland was forced on him by the board, I can understand why he would walk.

I think Ireland is a great signing, but if MON didnt want him and he was forced to take him, I dont think he had much choice.

Again, it's all conjecture.

From the comments made by Ireland after he'd signed, he was well aware of Villa's interest long before MON bolted. The refusal by the board to buy Aiden McGready I think was the turning point. The fact that MON never bothered to phone Randy when he resigned tells you everything you need to know about the final days of their relationship. I'm guessing here but I can imagine Randy telling MON to speak with Paul and MON refusing to acknowledge Faulkner as his boss.

[jonzy85]

I often said he was a lucky manager and had done well to achieve 6th so often but I and man others have been shown to have sussed him out from day one, even down to the manner of his departure.
But that's now water under the bridge he ran off and left us in a mess, he wasn't sacked, he didn't leave a squad full of experienced top players after such a big spend and it now seems he didn't have the backing of all his players, so why still try to make him out to be what he blatantly was not.

You're going to have to explain that for me...sussed him out from day one??

Are you implying that he had some masterplan to come to Villa, manage the team for 4 years just so he could fuck up our 5th season??

As for the lucky manager comment, it's a load of bull.

Lucky, is if you have a 1 season flash in the pan success.

Steadily building for 4 years is not lucky.

[jonzy85]

[quote author=jonzy85 link=topic=39986.msg1567644#msg1567644 date=1282903243
Incidentally, if Ireland was forced on him by the board, I can understand why he would walk.

I think Ireland is a great signing, but if MON didnt want him and he was forced to take him, I dont think he had much choice.

Again, it's all conjecture.

From the comments made by Ireland after he'd signed, he was well aware of Villa's interest long before MON bolted. The refusal by the board to buy Aiden McGready I think was the turning point. The fact that MON never bothered to phone Randy when he resigned tells you everything you need to know about the final days of their relationship. I'm guessing here but I can imagine Randy telling MON to speak with Paul and MON refusing to acknowledge Faulkner as his boss.
[/quote]

I would say you are not too far away from the truth...although I cant see him throwing his lot in over McGeady!

But if your scenario is close to the truth, would you not accept that the blame has to be apportioned to both MON and the board for letting a situation develop to the point where it did.