The Martin O'Neill thread (with added sacking #2188)

[SoccerHQ]

Fucking hell, he must have been good if they only counter-attacked. I can just imagine all those teams in the SPL whose game plan was to pour forward at Parkhead and leave gaps at the back for MON's dull Celtic team
to get the occasional flukey breakaway goal.

And Bolton, Derby and b-lose must have been all over us for us to score 15 goals in three games only by counter-attacking.

Derby were the worst team the premier league has seen, Bolton were going down when we play them (before they staged a miracle recovery after that game) and in any case Megson's bizarre tactic of planting his defence on the halfway line meant they were the one team we routinely trashed at home. SHA fair enough but the away game was a fair bit tighter that season.

The simple facts are that under MON only once in his 4 seasons did we even win 10 home league games at home (and that's just over 50% at that).

To give you a comparison the season Spurs finished 4th they won 14 games at WHL.

I've never said we were defensive under MON, just that when our widemen were marked out of the game, there was little guile and creation in central midfield until Milner was planted there and then it improved a bit.

Another tendancy was to retreat when we scored first in one of the big games. Spurs at home in MON's final season sticks in my mind, scored early on and just sat back for the rest of the game until Dawson scored late on.

[Confusious says]

 
author=claret and blue blood link=topic=48166.msg2171508#msg2171508 date=1352414977]
It's difficult to make a balanced comment as the last two seasons' pain have magnified our blame of MON.
While he was our manager I felt confident we would be top six and had no inferiority complex of any other club.Times change Citeh's Arab money Spuds' rise under Harry etc. mean it's a different ball game now. MON gave a clue to his exit when he said we needed to spend big just to stand still then left shortly afterwards.Some of the best memories of his tenure contained players Like Laursen, Barry, Melberg, Bouma Agbonlahor none of them his signings. The sale of some of our youngsters like Cahill, Gardner  frustrated us as did the home performances, particularly in his last season where the oppostion seemed to have possession of the ball more than us. The legacy we have seems familiar to Leicester after he left and even Celtic (Petrov and Larrsen were'nt his signings)   I always felt he thought he was doing us a favour being our manager and you felt he was never far away from taking another job .I do feel we now have a chance to get our club back and we can now at least get behind the crop of youngsters who we know have a fight on their hands to survive this season. Strangely that feeling of being part of that fight feels better than some of the times when MON was here.
[/quoteWhat a good post the only comment I can make is Mon also removed Sorensen from the team for Carson on loan from Liverpool. Sorensen was a good journeyman keeper who went on to serve Stoke well]

[QBVILLA]

Dunno about that. I always thought Sorensen was a poor 'keeper. As for Carson, well as I recall he looked a top 'keeper with the majority wanting him signed up until his howler against Croatia. His confidence was crushed from then on. If he'd gone on to sign him after that loan season then by all means he could be criticised but he didn't.

[Dave]

If he'd gone on to sign him after that loan season then by all means he could be criticised but he didn't.

He did spend £2m on having him on loan for that one season. That's only half a million less than we paid for Friedel.

I think that is worthy of criticism.

[QBVILLA]

If he'd gone on to sign him after that loan season then by all means he could be criticised but he didn't.

He did spend £2m on having him on loan for that one season. That's only half a million less than we paid for Friedel.

I think that is worthy of criticism.

He was what 21/22 at the time and seen as England's number one compared to Friedel who was 37. Had he have carried on with his early form that £2m would've been seen as a sound investment and we'd have been happy to sign him on a permanent deal viewing him as a good long term investment. It didn't. Given cost £3.5m and was handed a five year deal at the age of 35. As I recall there wasn't much objection at the time. Now he's sitting on the bench pulling in big wages we wish he'd have been signed on loan as well. That to me is just another handy stick to whack MoN with. By all means knock the signings of Harewood, Beye and Heskey but taking on loan a keeper who at the time was rated as highly as Joe Hart was three seasons back is off the mark in my opinion.

[Risso]

Sorry, but Carson was never rated that highly.  And what makes thing worse is that we had a perfectly good keeper in Sorensen, who O'Neill treated very shabbily.

[QBVILLA]

Sorry, but Carson was never rated that highly.  And what makes thing worse is that we had a perfectly good keeper in Sorensen, who O'Neill treated very shabbily.

Well he was or he wouldn't have had a £10m price tag at the time. As for Sorensen, that's a matter of opinion, I personally never rated him. One of the weakest first choice keepers i've seen in the twenty or so years following the Villa is my opinion.

[Meanwood Villa]

Sorry, but Carson was never rated that highly.  And what makes thing worse is that we had a perfectly good keeper in Sorensen, who O'Neill treated very shabbily.

I'd say Carson was widely considered the best young keeper in England right up to that performance against Croatia. I never forgave Sorenson for chucking the ball in in both derbies in 04/05. Strangely I did Enckelman.

[Risso]

Sorry, but Carson was never rated that highly.  And what makes thing worse is that we had a perfectly good keeper in Sorensen, who O'Neill treated very shabbily.

Well he was or he wouldn't have had a £10m price tag at the time. As for Sorensen, that's a matter of opinion, I personally never rated him. One of the weakest first choice keepers i've seen in the twenty or so years following the Villa is my opinion.

Who agreed that £10m price tag?  Ah that's right, Martin O'Neill, who valued Curtis Davies at the same figure.

[paul_e]

Sorry, but Carson was never rated that highly.  And what makes thing worse is that we had a perfectly good keeper in Sorensen, who O'Neill treated very shabbily.

I'd say Carson was widely considered the best young keeper in England right up to that performance against Croatia. I never forgave Sorenson for chucking the ball in in both derbies in 04/05. Strangely I did Enckelman.

I'll always forgive Enkleman because, whilst it was stupid that goal should never have stood.  You can't score direct from a throw in and there was more than a little doubt of whether he touched the ball.  The ref let the atmosphere get to him and pretty much ruined a guys career over not having the balls to make the sensible call.

[ktvillan]

Dunno about that. I always thought Sorensen was a poor 'keeper. As for Carson, well as I recall he looked a top 'keeper with the majority wanting him signed up until his howler against Croatia. His confidence was crushed from then on. If he'd gone on to sign him after that loan season then by all means he could be criticised but he didn't.

When did Carson ever look a top keeper?  Nice lad , but he was mediocre at best from day 1 with us, with his slow motion dives and the reactions of a dead cat.  And  he  gradually faded away to utter shite.  Nothing to do with losing his confidence against Croatia, he just wasn't ever a good keeper.   He certainly wasn't an improvement on Sorensen who was and still is a steady PL keeper, whereas Carson is - who knows?.  I think a lot of people went off Sorensen when he made a gaff or two against our neighbours.  And let's not forget O'Neill paid Liverpool a 2m "loan fee" for Carson. 

[ktvillan]

Sorry, but Carson was never rated that highly.  And what makes thing worse is that we had a perfectly good keeper in Sorensen, who O'Neill treated very shabbily.

Well he was or he wouldn't have had a £10m price tag at the time. As for Sorensen, that's a matter of opinion, I personally never rated him. One of the weakest first choice keepers i've seen in the twenty or so years following the Villa is my opinion.

Who agreed that £10m price tag?  Ah that's right, Martin O'Neill, who valued Curtis Davies at the same figure.

Liverpool may have valued him at 10m but they hyped Carson up and it was a massive con trick.  It took me just a few matches to see that Carson was awful. Perhaps O'Neill should have watched him a few times before signing him rather than taking 'The Mighty Reds YNWA''s word for it.

[TonyD]

Hoof, hoof, hoof was the order of the day as his tenure went on.  Says a great deal.

[not3bad]

Neil Moxley

Extremely good article.

Agreed.

on the whole, O'Neill ended in credit.

Yes he did.  We can feel better about agreeing with this assertion as the media is now listing MON's faults as well as his undoubted strengths.  Now we just need a bit of stability so a team can be built that has a chance of challenging at the right end of the table.

[Risso]

Being in credit is a poor choice of phrase when it comes to discussing Aston Villa post Martin O'Neill!