The Martin O'Neill thread (with added sacking #2188)

[cheltenhamlion]

Matt finally got to say what he thinks then. Good show.

[ktvillan]

Three consecutive 6th places looks pretty good on paper, especially in the context of what Villa have done since, and what they'd done the season before MON joined.  But the reality is there were only 4, maybe 5, what I would call genuinely consistently good teams in the PL during those seasons,  so we were merely the best of the (generally mediocre) rest.  I always argued that any decent manager given the transfer and wages budget that O'Neill had at the time, could and should have achieved at least as much.  I reckon for example Redknapp, Jol and Moyes would have achieved as much comfortably, and decent cases could be made for Hodgson, Hughes (at the time), Allardyce, and maybe one or two others. 

Despite increasing the number of points gained each year, it was fairly obvious from his limitations in terms of style of play, poor use of squad and uninspiring transfers that he was neither good enough nor imaginative enough to break through that glass ceiling.  And even if we had managed to sneak 4th,  I'm not alone in doubting that  we would have made any impression whatsoever in the Champions League.   Our ventures into the Europa League allowed the mighty Rapid Vienna to twice expose the paucity of our tactics and technique, so what chance against the much better teams?  A key reason why his ambitions for the hot seat at the likes regular CL competitors Liverpool were never likely top be realised and never have been. 

My doubts were raised, and my optimism punctured, as far back as the day he signed Harewood, when we had been led to believe there would be some bums on seats signings, and that we had the budget to sign them.  It completely lacked imagination or ambition and when it was followed up with Knight in and Cahill out I think I had MON worked out from that day.     He was fine if you were content with being the best of a mediocre bunch, spending a fortune to achieve that, and having the pants bored off you watching 70/80s style hoofball in the process.   There were plenty of Villa fans who seemed to be, and whose reactions to any MON criticism was verging on religious zealotry.  Despite trying to balance my opinion of O'Neill, I was routinely dismissed as a whinger for pointing out what is now glaringly obvious to almost everyone.   

The bald fact is he had the biggest budget, the biggest free hand and the biggest opportunity any Villa manager has probably ever had to establish us a genuine force in the English game.  And by that measure, he underachieved.

[kingshirker]

Most here will vehemently disagree but since your views in part inspired it, I thought I should pass on the link (with huge thanks to Montbert, with whom I have exchanged PMs) ... http://salutsunderland.com/2012/11/oneill-out-no-but-meet-the-aston-villa-fans-questioning-that-judgement/

[pauliewalnuts]

Most here will vehemently disagree but since your views in part inspired it, I thought I should pass on the link (with huge thanks to Montbert, with whom I have exchanged PMs) ... http://salutsunderland.com/2012/11/oneill-out-no-but-meet-the-aston-villa-fans-questioning-that-judgement/

I was looking at your site the other day, it's a more than decent site, some good writing on there.

[not3bad]

Tell you what, take a look at the argument here:

http://www.readytogo.net/smb/showthread.php?t=740612

and think back to the stuff being discussed on this thread, how we were here with the whole happy clapper / doom merchant thing. Uncanny the degree to which their forum mirrors this one!

To be honest I'm fucking sick of this bullshit internet "happy clapper", "doom monger", "knee jerker" type shite, does anyone actually talk like this in the real world? There's a few bellends/ WUMs on either side of the debate, some who think the sun shines out of O'Neill's arse and think anyone who criticises him or his team must be a mag and then there are some idiots who think we should be considering his position after less than a year because we've had a poor start to the season. By and large though the vast, vast majority of fans are somewhere in the middle

[Rudy Can't Fail]

Who's this bloody Jacob chap? He kept that one quiet.

[pauliewalnuts]

Tell you what, take a look at the argument here:

http://www.readytogo.net/smb/showthread.php?t=740612

and think back to the stuff being discussed on this thread, how we were here with the whole happy clapper / doom merchant thing. Uncanny the degree to which their forum mirrors this one!

To be honest I'm fucking sick of this bullshit internet "happy clapper", "doom monger", "knee jerker" type shite, does anyone actually talk like this in the real world? There's a few bellends/ WUMs on either side of the debate, some who think the sun shines out of O'Neill's arse and think anyone who criticises him or his team must be a mag and then there are some idiots who think we should be considering his position after less than a year because we've had a poor start to the season. By and large though the vast, vast majority of fans are somewhere in the middle

As it was here.

[eastie]

Who's this bloody Jacob chap? He kept that one quiet.

Always thought he was crackers!

[Monty]

Who's this bloody Jacob chap? He kept that one quiet.

Always thought he was crackers!

It begins.

[eastie]

Who's this bloody Jacob chap? He kept that one quiet.

Always thought he was crackers!

It begins.

Only joking Jacob sorry monty, bet you wish he hadn't blown your secret eh?

[Monty]

Who's this bloody Jacob chap? He kept that one quiet.

Always thought he was crackers!

It begins.

Only joking Jacob sorry monty, bet you wish he hadn't blown your secret eh?

Haha I really couldn't mind less, he has full permission to name and shame me. I do admit to being a 'sap' under my own name for the first time in print, though.

[astonvillan]

Sunderland also give away thousands of tickets to local schools most matches, too, I have heard.

They were also doing plenty of tickets for a tenner, too. I know Newcastle fans enjoyed that fact after having the Mackems taking the mick out of them recently for reducing ticket prices at St James' to £15.

And on that point, Albion fans were charged £15 for their game at Newcastle. We were charged £26. And I imagine they charged Man United fans £40+. Hardly fair.

[eastie]

Sunderland also give away thousands of tickets to local schools most matches, too, I have heard.

They were also doing plenty of tickets for a tenner, too. I know Newcastle fans enjoyed that fact after having the Mackems taking the mick out of them recently for reducing ticket prices at St James' to £15.

And on that point, Albion fans were charged £15 for their game at Newcastle. We were charged £26. And I imagine they charged Man United fans £40+. Hardly fair.

Seems unfair charging different prices for away fans , I suppose they are not infringing trading standards but I think away fans should all pay the same in fairness.

[Chris Smith]

I wonder when the MON obsession will end on here? I don't seem to notice it half as much in the real world. Perhaps when we have a team that can hold a candle to the one he had. Even the current manager doesn't seem able to stop talking about him.

[Dave Cooper please]

I wonder when the MON obsession will end on here? I don't seem to notice it half as much in the real world. Perhaps when we have a team that can hold a candle to the one he had. Even the current manager doesn't seem able to stop talking about him.

Not for a long time Chris. The thing with MON is that he almost transcends any club he manages such is his cult status.
We take the piss out of 'Martinoneillssunderland' but we were 'Martinoneillsvilla' whether we liked it or not.

Plus the very fact that he almost made us brilliant but ended up shafting us quite royally up the Gary means his legacy will be talked about for decades yet.