The Martin O'Neill thread (with added sacking #2188)

[KevinGage]

The vast majority of Villa fans backed the club over the MON debacle, rightly attributing most of the blame to the petulant little barsteward.

There was even an acceptance (in fact it was widely encouraged) that the wagebill should be cut back, and we would need to scale back on transfers and top 4 to 6 ambitions for a while.

But what was meant to be two years of belt tightening (according to Faulkner) turned into five. That's what has ultimately done for us. Our transfer business last summer came too late.

[Rudy Can't Fail]

Much as I hate O'Neill for his walkout, I can't blame him for what went on more than a couple of years after he left. By then we should have been on the road to recovery and even if the finances were knackered what money there was available should have been used better.

For sure, that's spot on. However, I think O'Neill deserves a lot of blame for wasting our best chance at breaking into the top tier for a generation.

Disagree. Even if we had managed to get 4th spot we'd have been knocked out of the Champions League in the qualifying group stages, much like Moyes with Everton.

The problem was the board failed to realise pre-season that MON had lost interest. I remember at the time DC5 and Pauline commentating on how uninterested and blasé MON was to everything on the Portugal summer tour. The writing was on the wall. He knew he'd be found out that summer when he was under instruction to get rid of his dead wood as he knew, despite spending millions on them, they were worthless.

[cheltenhamlion]

Much as I hate O'Neill for his walkout, I can't blame him for what went on more than a couple of years after he left. By then we should have been on the road to recovery and even if the finances were knackered what money there was available should have been used better.

Can you email that post to Councillor Swann to save me arguing with him next time I see him.

Ta.

[supertom]

The vast majority of Villa fans backed the club over the MON debacle, rightly attributing most of the blame to the petulant little barsteward.

There was even an acceptance (in fact it was widely encouraged) that the wagebill should be cut back, and we would need to scale back on transfers and top 4 to 6 ambitions for a while.

But what was meant to be two years of belt tightening (according to Faulkner) turned into five. That's what has ultimately done for us. Our transfer business last summer came too late.

It amazes me too that after 6 years of cost cutting our wage bill is still ridiculously high, particularly given the actual level of quality of our squad we're massively overpaying our squad. As far as finances go we even make Newcastle Utd look like a well run club.

Hopefully the summer gives us the chance to significantly slash our wage bill and furthermore, if we finally start making good signings with some kind of cohesive plan on moulding a squad, perhaps when(if) we come back up to the Premier League we'll have a sensible wage budget that will prove to be better value for the level of quality we may have. As an example, Westwood and Bacuna are both on their second deals at the club. They may have been cheap signings on small wages but their wages surely went up when they recieved their second deals. And lets face it, there's no way in hell they're not being overpaid because they're getting paid more than tuppence a week (which would...just about...represent good value for them).

[Dave]

Much as I hate O'Neill for his walkout, I can't blame him for what went on more than a couple of years after he left. By then we should have been on the road to recovery and even if the finances were knackered what money there was available should have been used better.

For sure, that's spot on. However, I think O'Neill deserves a lot of blame for wasting our best chance at breaking into the top tier for a generation.

Disagree. Even if we had managed to get 4th spot we'd have been knocked out of the Champions League in the qualifying group stages, much like Moyes with Everton.

Isn't that his point?

He doesn't mean "he wasted a chance to scrape into fourth one year", more that if we'd had a manager who wasn't buying multiple defences and Emile Heskey then that money could have potentially turned us into a team that was good enough to hang around for a bit longer.

[Somniloquism]

The problem was the board failed to realise pre-season that MON had lost interest. I remember at the time DC5 and Pauline commentating on how uninterested and blasé MON was to everything on the Portugal summer tour. The writing was on the wall. He knew he'd be found out that summer when he was under instruction to get rid of his dead wood as he knew, despite spending millions on them, they were worthless.

Wasn't there also very credible rumours that he went for the Liverpool job when Benitez was pretty much nailed on out the door? Surely that should have been a clue, but then we are talking about our board.

[Monty]

Much as I hate O'Neill for his walkout, I can't blame him for what went on more than a couple of years after he left. By then we should have been on the road to recovery and even if the finances were knackered what money there was available should have been used better.

For sure, that's spot on. However, I think O'Neill deserves a lot of blame for wasting our best chance at breaking into the top tier for a generation.

Disagree. Even if we had managed to get 4th spot we'd have been knocked out of the Champions League in the qualifying group stages, much like Moyes with Everton.

Isn't that his point?

He doesn't mean "he wasted a chance to scrape into fourth one year", more that if we'd had a manager who wasn't buying multiple defences and Emile Heskey then that money could have potentially turned us into a team that was good enough to hang around for a bit longer.

Exactly Dave. I don't mean that MON blew a chance which he alone created to establish us at the top of the game; I meant that our best chance of becoming established at the top was when Randy's money was still forthcoming plentifully, which coincided with Spurs being shite and Man City not being the force they are now. MON was the wrong man at the right time.

[Rudy Can't Fail]

Much as I hate O'Neill for his walkout, I can't blame him for what went on more than a couple of years after he left. By then we should have been on the road to recovery and even if the finances were knackered what money there was available should have been used better.

For sure, that's spot on. However, I think O'Neill deserves a lot of blame for wasting our best chance at breaking into the top tier for a generation.

Disagree. Even if we had managed to get 4th spot we'd have been knocked out of the Champions League in the qualifying group stages, much like Moyes with Everton.

Isn't that his point?

He doesn't mean "he wasted a chance to scrape into fourth one year", more that if we'd had a manager who wasn't buying multiple defences and Emile Heskey then that money could have potentially turned us into a team that was good enough to hang around for a bit longer.

I agree with that, Dave. I have always believed that MON was a very limited manager who even given the money wouldn't/couldn't have kept us in the top four and the financial rewards of Champion's League campaigns. The phrase 'pearls to pigs' is how I look back at the MON years, that and another chapter in The Aston Villa Book of Missed Opportunities.

[Damo70]

One thing I will say and have said before is at least MON's signings had some decent resale value. TSM1 lumbered us with N'Zogbia, Given and Hutton. Although to be fair the latter two don't deserve to be compared to N'Zogbia as at least they knew how to 'put a shift in'.

[paul_e]

One thing I will say and have said before is at least MON's signings had some decent resale value. TSM1 lumbered us with N'Zogbia, Given and Hutton. Although to be fair the latter two don't deserve to be compared to N'Zogbia as at least they knew how to 'put a shift in'.

Some of them, for every Milner there's a Shorey and a Beye.

[passport1]

I haven't got the time or inclination but I daresay someone knows .How much has the TV broadcast rights money grown since 2010?. I'm pretty sure our share of that alone should have been enough to rectify our financially straightened circumstances had we been run with even a modicum of financial savy.

[Rudy Can't Fail]

The problem was the board failed to realise pre-season that MON had lost interest. I remember at the time DC5 and Pauline commentating on how uninterested and blasé MON was to everything on the Portugal summer tour. The writing was on the wall. He knew he'd be found out that summer when he was under instruction to get rid of his dead wood as he knew, despite spending millions on them, they were worthless.

Wasn't there also very credible rumours that he went for the Liverpool job when Benitez was pretty much nailed on out the door? Surely that should have been a clue, but then we are talking about our board.

Oh yeah, I completely forgot about that little episode and you're right, the board were asleep on the job. You have to laugh at the thought MON thinking he was up to the job. I bet he goes to bed at night reading his Oliver Holt clippings.

[cheltenhamlion]

Too good for football according to Patrick Barclay.

[Rudy Can't Fail]

I nearly puked at the end of the Forest film 'Promised You a Miracle' where they tried to link MON as the new Clough.

[Stu]

He should have got the push after his third season. Thanks for instilling confidence and work ethic, Martin, but now we need to move with the times.

But that would have needed somebody other that MON running the show.