The replacement for MON...?

[FatSam]

I think we are crying out for someone like Jol who has the ability to utilise funds by signing from a much broader spectrum than MON's cautious (& not very successful)  "buy British" approach.

The deal at the heart of this affair involves a Club record sale from which we are likley to make a 100% profit.That is hardly evidence of either a cautious approach, or that it has been not very successful.Previous record fee? Gareth Barry,another British player. who would you rather have at the club, james Milner, or Stilyan Petrov?

I'm not saying that Jol has all the solutions for any deficiencies that MON might have had in the transfer market, but I'm not sure I understand your point?

MON bought Milner, but he didn't buy Barry, so can't claim complete credit for this piece of business. The only club that has been willing to pay such inflated fees for these players is Man City, and they certainly aren't only buying English players. Using Jol as an example, he bought Berbatov for Spurs who was subsequently sold to Man U for a decent profit. Also, to put Milner into the context of a 'strategy', MON also bought other English players such as Sidwell, Shorey, Reo-Coker, and Davies. He has also bought players who are towards the end of their careers, like Dunne and Petrov (both non-British), who we willl obviously not sell at a profit but fulfill a role for the team.

The only other English player that MON has signed who is anywhere near as valuable as Barry/ Milner is Ash. Therefore isn't the point in terms of good business practice to buy good young players regardless of nationality? Is your point about good business practice or xenophobia? Ultimately I'd rather have someone at the club who wants to play for Aston Villa, rather than someone who doesn't, but just happens to have been born in Leeds or Sussex.

[Ads]

We've just lost the best manager we could ever hope to have.

I don't buy that at all and if we're at sea, then its because O'Neill has left us in the lurch.

[pauliewalnuts]

We've just lost the best manager we could ever hope to have.

I don't buy that at all and if we're at sea, then its because O'Neill has left us in the lurch.

That's the thing.

He's fucked off five days before the start of the new season. Regardless of what has gone on behind the scenes, no ifs and no buts, he's left us gigantically in the lurch.

[garyfouroaks]

You lost me saying he did a decent job for wales.To simplify the argument, we'd have to pay millions to release him from his contract which is money that needs to be used on the pitch, so the whole debate about him is utterly pointless.That he plays very similar football to MoN and therefore would do nothing to move us forward becomes abitrary after that.

How much better should he have done in wales?

I am not advocating that we should try and snatch him from Fulham, I am saying that IF he had been available he would have been a decent bet.

I am unconvinced that ANY manager will improve on MONs record with us.

[johny]

So, not one single person has voted for Curbishley, even as a laugh!

That would be me and avfc done and dusted if this happened!

[David_Nab]

Lots of idea's floating around by tighting of budgets and falling out's with Lerner but with this rumour of Friedel wanting out is it maybe a case that after Barry,Milner and now Friedel MON is just pissed off with players he was trying to build a team with upping and leaving when more cash is offered ??

Perhaps he is just disheartened with football in general ?

[citizenDJ]

You lost me saying he did a decent job for wales.To simplify the argument, we'd have to pay millions to release him from his contract which is money that needs to be used on the pitch, so the whole debate about him is utterly pointless.That he plays very similar football to MoN and therefore would do nothing to move us forward becomes abitrary after that.

How much better should he have done in wales?

I am not advocating that we should try and snatch him from Fulham, I am saying that IF he had been available he would have been a decent bet.

I am unconvinced that ANY manager will improve on MONs record with us.

Maybe, but they might be able to match it, and perhaps with more entertaining football.

[Chris Smith]

Lots of idea's floating around by tighting of budgets and falling out's with Lerner but with this rumour of Friedel wanting out is it maybe a case that after Barry,Milner and now Friedel MON is just pissed off with players he was trying to build a team with upping and leaving when more cash is offered ??

Perhaps he is just disheartened with football in general ?

The story earlier was that Randy had agreed to sell Friedel against MON's wishes as he was 38 not that he wanted to leave.

[garyfouroaks]

I'm not saying that Jol has all the solutions for any deficiencies that MON might have had in the transfer market, but I'm not sure I understand your point?

MON bought Milner, but he didn't buy Barry, so can't claim complete credit for this piece of business. The only club that has been willing to pay such inflated fees for these players is Man City, and they certainly aren't only buying English players. Using Jol as an example, he bought Berbatov for Spurs who was subsequently sold to Man U for a decent profit. Also, to put Milner into the context of a 'strategy', MON also bought other English players such as Sidwell, Shorey, Reo-Coker, and Davies. He has also bought players who are towards the end of their careers, like Dunne and Petrov (both non-British), who we willl obviously not sell at a profit but fulfill a role for the team.

The only other English player that MON has signed who is anywhere near as valuable as Barry/ Milner is Ash. Therefore isn't the point in terms of good business practice to buy good young players regardless of nationality? Is your point about good business practice or xenophobia? Ultimately I'd rather have someone at the club who wants to play for Aston Villa, rather than someone who doesn't, but just happens to have been born in Leeds or Sussex.

My point was simply that I do not think that MON’s “buy British” policy has been “not very successful”.

I don’t think that buying good young players regardless of nationality makes good business sense.

Factually, Scandinavian and Dutch players have a greater success record playing for British Clubs than Hispanic and Latin ones. That has nothing to do with xenophobia, it has everything to do with culture, history...............and weather.

When Clubs try to attract players they need an unique selling point. We don’t pay the biggest wages, we can’t offer CL football, we don’t play in front of the biggest crowds, we don’t offer the bright lights of London, nor is Birmingham as cosmopolitan to the International Footballer as London. But what MON had right was to say that at Villa, English talent will get a chance, and it has.

That does not mean that we should not sign foreign players. It does mean that we need to be tuned to why players will come. Frankly, for foreign players you can go to London, play in front of 60,000 every week and earn more than you would at Villa, and not win anything – at Arsenal. Top foreign players do not want to come here and not play in the CL, because their International prospects will be adversely affected.

[Pete3206]

We've just lost the best manager we could ever hope to have.

I don't buy that at all and if we're at sea, then its because O'Neill has left us in the lurch.

Quite correct he has. But who from that list is going to take the team forward?

If this was another club and you had that list + MON, who do you think would be very near the top in the vote count?

[pauliewalnuts]

We've just lost the best manager we could ever hope to have.

I don't buy that at all and if we're at sea, then its because O'Neill has left us in the lurch.

Quite correct he has. But who from that list is going to take the team forward?

If this was another club and you had that list + MON, who do you think would be very near the top in the vote count?

That's an interesting point, but at the end of the day, MON resigned. He didn't get sacked, he walked, his choice. It's not like we had any choice in the matter.

[curiousorange]

Lots of idea's floating around by tighting of budgets and falling out's with Lerner but with this rumour of Friedel wanting out is it maybe a case that after Barry,Milner and now Friedel MON is just pissed off with players he was trying to build a team with upping and leaving when more cash is offered ??

Perhaps he is just disheartened with football in general ?

The story earlier was that Randy had agreed to sell Friedel against MON's wishes as he was 38 not that he wanted to leave.

I've been trying to work the Friedel story out and it's baffling. Are the club really that bad off for cash that they would sacrifice a very good keeper for the few million his transfer may bring in? At 38 and not long left on his deal it seems like a pointless exercise that could only weaken the club.

But then maybe it was because the so-called 'Dispensable Six' were not attracting any offers that Lerner and Faulkner had started looking at saleable assets at the club that would draw bids.

Or maybe it was because they wanted O'Neill out that they picked a player who would immediately be picked up if offered around and this forced the manager's hand...

It will all out eventually. I just don't know. This is the wrong thread for it but I saw the little exchange and thought I'd share my thoughts.

[The Situation]

Why do small heath fans take great pride and pleasure thinking that we ACTUALLY want McLeish as our new manager? They seem to think we're interested in him as if he's fucking Alex Ferguson and that he's a top dollar manager. Hey, congrats on finishing in your best position in the top tier of English football since pre-historic days, but didn't that ginge also relegate you too?

so yeah, we're not interested in your manager (we've got bigger and better managers on our list) so don't act like we are, stop debating whether or not he would leave, again, we don't want him; you're only doing this because you want to look like you've got a really good manager as if he's some sort of prized possession so you're stirring shit to make yourselves look really big and that your manager is attracted by top teams just to give you your extra 15 minutes of fame.

[Pete3206]

Who gives a shit what SHA fans think?

[curiousorange]

Why do small heath fans take great pride and pleasure thinking that we ACTUALLY want McLeish as our new manager? They seem to think we're interested in him as if he's fucking Alex Ferguson and that he's a top dollar manager. Hey, congrats on finishing in your best position in the top tier of English football since pre-historic days, but didn't that ginge also relegate you too?

so yeah, we're not interested in your manager (we've got bigger and better managers on our list) so don't act like we are, stop debating whether or not he would leave, again, we don't want him; you're only doing this because you want to look like you've got a really good manager as if he's some sort of prized possession so you're stirring shit to make yourselves look really big and that your manager is attracted by top teams just to give you your extra 15 minutes of fame.

As much as I want to agree with you, McLeish is a very good manager so I can't properly put my weight behind your argument.