Rugby Union Thread

[lovejoy]

'twas ever thus.

Suspect the RFU are keen to have mor than just sale north of Leicester.

[UK Redsox]

'twas ever thus.

Suspect the RFU are keen to have mor than just sale north of Leicester.

Rob Andrew used to piss me off when he was in charge at Newcastle. He advocated for a no promotion/relegation system, conveniently forgetting that if not for the existing system, Gosforth ('cause that's who they are really) would never have been at that level in the first place.

[Dave Summers]

England: 15 Ben Foden (Northampton Saints), 14 Chris Ashton (Northampton Saints), 13 Brad Barritt (Saracens), 12 Owen Farrell (Saracens), 11 Christian Wade (London Wasps), 10 Charlie Hodgson (Saracens), 9 Lee Dickson (Northampton Saints), 1 Matt Stevens (Saracens), 2 Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints), 3 Paul Doran Jones (Northampton Saints), 4 Mouritz Botha (Saracens), 5 Tom Palmer (Stade Francais), 6 Tom Johnson (Exeter Chiefs), 7 Carl Fearns (Bath), 8 Phil Dowson (capt, Northampton Saints)
Replacements: 16 Lee Mears (Bath), 17 Matt Mullan (Worcester Warriors), 18 Joe Launchbury (London Wasps), 19 Jamie Gibson (London Irish), 20 Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens), 21 Jonathan Joseph (London Irish), 22 Alex Goode (Saracens)

For the Baa Baas game on Sunday.  Chuffed to bits Wade is in and I think, as Strettle hasn't been picked and is available, this gives him a massive opportunity to impress before the tour.

However, we are back to the midfield trio of the first two Six Nations matches, played in bad conditions admittedly and will he get the ball?.  If I was being picky, I would have liked Farrell at 10 and Barritt and Joseph in the centres.

Be interested to see how the two flankers go, as I don't know a fat lot about them.

Finally, a question to all the Rugby lovers on here.  I have been involved in a twitter debate with a Sunday times journo this morning on the relative merits of "Shane" (why do the Welsh insist on referring to their players by Christian names only?) and Jason Robinson.    Thoughts?

[paul_e]

Dave - Billy Whizz was light years ahead of 'shane'.  Ball in hand with broken field to attack there's nothing between them, they're the best the northern hemisphere has ever produced at that (but a couple of the england youngsters will outstrip them both in the next 4-5 years).  They were both great in the tackle too.  However Robinson's ability to join the forwards in the rucks and mauls, his offloading and passing game and, most importantly, his awareness of the game are all far and away ahead of the little welsh man.

Tom Johnson looked very good in the back row, Dowson played great at 8 (see what I did there) and Ashton is clearly back to his very best.  More importantly Wade and Joseph looked totally at home, Joseph in particular brings something special and is one of the guys I was talking about above.

[cheltenhamlion]

I know they won but I look at that front row and find it hard to understand how Nick Wood isn't in it.

Or May. Or Sinbad. Or Sharples. Or Burns in the backs.

[paul_e]

I know they won but I look at that front row and find it hard to understand how Nick Wood isn't in it.

Or May. Or Sinbad. Or Sharples. Or Burns in the backs.

They've been screwed by gloucester being a shambles since March, Sinbad will never be picked, too many injuries when he gets selected have marked him as one to avoid, unfortunately, but the rest would all have been in with a great chance (and trinder if he was fit) but it's hard to argue they've been playing well when the stats are stacked so heavily against the club.

Barritt for example has played poorly for sarries in the last month or 2 but is still in because he was still part of a winning side, which makes it easier to justify giving him a place, if they'd picked 5-6 glaws players the rfu (rightly) would be asking why he was picking players who clearly weren't performing at club level.  Both sides of the argument are naive but it's easier to ignore common sense in the way lancaster has chosen to.

[PaulWinch again]

I like Wade I think he's going to be a top player.

[Dave Summers]

I like Wade I think he's going to be a top player.

So do I

However, having watched the game yesterday, it's no use having the likes of him, Ashton, Foden, Goode, Sinbad, Sharples, May, Monye or whoever in the back three.    The 10,12, 13 axis with these bloody Sarries players JUST AIN'T GOOD ENOUGH.   I except that they defend well and Farrell kicks his goals, but the passing is frankly appalling for top class internationals and the ability to fix a man and pass by Farrell yesterday was embarrassing.   I know it won't happen, but I would be taking him out of the firing line and get him to learn the basics of running an attacking backline before he plays for England again.

Joseph, Wade and Goode were a breath of fresh air when they came on and I would be starting both Joseph and Wade in the first test.   I guess that won't happen though.

Forwards, apart from at scrum time on a few occasions, didn't do too badly.  Botha impresses me more and more and the run from Palmer in the first half was outstanding.   The big plus for me was Tom Johnson, don't know much about him but I thought he played very well.

With a fantastic final on Saturday and the likes of Marler, Cole, Parling,  Robshaw, Morgan, Care, Flood, Tuilagi? etc to come back, we do have some choices don't we.  I maintain though, we need to get 10,12,13 right otherwise we aren't going anywhere.

I would be looking along the lines of the following for the 1st test :

Marler
Hartley
Cole
Botha
Parling
Johnson
Robshaw
Morgan

Care
Flood
Wade
Tuilagi
Joseph
Ashton
Foden

Bench :

Stevens (as he plays both sides)
Gray
Palmer
Dowson
Youngs
Hodgson
Goode

[PaulWinch again]

Farrell does need some work on his attacking running and judgement. I'm pretty sure he can be coached on it, but it does need work.

[Dave Summers]

Farrell does need some work on his attacking running and judgement. I'm pretty sure he can be coached on it, but it does need work.

How embarrassing that an England number 10 should have to be coached on that.   We are falling into the "Jonny" syndrome with this fella I feel.   Because he can kick goals and tackle well, everyone thinks he is a "great".   He is far from it and I would be picking Flood, Burns, Ford, Cipriani all ahead of him.    Cipriani got pilloried for what he couldn't bring to the table, i.e his tackling was weak, but Farrell and Jonny, despite neither of them being the greatest attacking threat and being as poor at attacking as Cipriani is at defending, don't get the same treatment by "Twickenham man".

Sorry, really got a bee in my bonnet about this.   Hopefully Farrell will shove it straight down my throat in Durban in 2 weeks time.

And I am probably fed up with the wait for a manager too :-)

[UK Redsox]

Gloucester legend John Brain, dead at 51

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-gloucestershire-18229721

http://www.thisisgloucestershire.co.uk/Comment-Proud-son-Gloucester-John-Brain-stayed/story-16208536-detail/story.html

[PaulWinch again]

Andy Farrell has quit at Saracens, I wonder what the chances of him turning up on the England staff are now.

[paul_e]

I agree totally with Dave.

1 of Farrell, Barritt and Manu I'm ok with but the 3 together are the main reason why ashton looked poor in the 6N.

As it stands I'd stick with Farrell starting but I'd play Burns and Joseph and I'd have Burns 10 with Farrell outside him.  Burns is quality with the ball and is being held back because he's not the best kicker (although his tactical kicking is good enough generally).  Cipriani will, I think, get a shot once he's been back in england for a few months as he's a special talent, but like Matthew Tait he was thrown in too early and then made accountable for mistakes that others have been allowed to get away with.

The problem with the RFU is that too many of them grew up with amateur rugby played in a swamp where a 10 who kicked for territory and joined the forwards well was an asset (Rob Andrew being a great example).  The game has progressed since then so we need to be willing to risk the odd error in the hope of getting the creativity to make up for it.

[cdbearsfan]

Well done Scotland!

[danlanza]

Well done Scotland!

Have they beaten the Aussies?