Summer 2010 Transfer Thread: B*llsh*t, Rumours & Wishes

[Greg N'Ash]

now you're being daft. if you look at paulie's stats, in 08/09 all we needed to do by game 28 was show an average level of performance to get 4th, but we couldn't even manage that. we were never in that position last season

Of course I'm being daft - I'm applying your logic.

hardly. your example had nowt to do with what i was saying. For a start how is finishing 6th twice comparable with finishing 3rd and 4th.? you're just so desperate to prove last season was the bestest evoh in some misguided cheerleading attempt, that your prepared to ignore MON best season. A shame really.

And you know your argument is crap, so are attempting to drag me into a slanging match with the old 'cheerleading' gambit.  Won't work.

Your contention is that being in a great position part way through a race is more important than where you finish said race.  Which quite frankly I think is laughable.  

Sorry - I meant to say 'larfable'.

no it isn't.

 this is obviously too complicated for you, so lets leave it.

[paul_e]

This whole thing is a bit of a pointless argument, the final position is all that really matters, in which case we've had 3 years of 6th place.

The important thing to look at therefore is what we'd need to do to bridge those last few positions and the answer is to win the winnable games.

All the spending by Man City, and Tottenham being in the CL only matters when we play against them and our record under o'neill against the top sides is actually pretty good so that's not where we're falling down.

Our problem is we're too susceptible to the sucker punch against teams that defend for 89mins so we drop points against people like stoke, west ham, wolves.  Our record in those games is a lot worse than it needs to be.

If we can get a couple of players who let us get goals in those games we'll make that jump as I'm sure most villa fans can find 10 'dropped' points for each of the last 3 seasons without too much effort.  That we have got points in games where we weren't the better side is irrelevant, that quality is what MON brings, we just need to now add a bit of guile to it.

[mcgrath_85]

I don't think Greg Is saying that. From what I've gathered he's saying finishing two points worse off but having been in the race of third and fourth for the majority of the season is a greater achievement than being sixth for the majority of the season.
You're twisting every comment he makes.

[Concrete John]

I don't think Greg Is saying that. From what I've gathered he's saying finishing two points worse off but having been in the race of third and fourth for the majority of the season is a greater achievement than being sixth for the majority of the season.
You're twisting every comment he makes.

As he suggested, better be left now as we're just going to end up arguing the toss and spoiling the thread.

However, I just want to say that I don't twist anything and the above argument you state is exactly what I think he's saying and exactly what I fundementally disagree with.  Is being top of the league from game 1 to 37 and finishing 2nd better than being 2nd all the way through and winning the league on the last day?

[pauliewalnuts]

I don't think Greg Is saying that. From what I've gathered he's saying finishing two points worse off but having been in the race of third and fourth for the majority of the season is a greater achievement than being sixth for the majority of the season.
You're twisting every comment he makes.

As he suggested, better be left now as we're just going to end up arguing the toss and spoiling the thread.

Yup.

However, I just want to say that I don't twist anything and the above argument you state is exactly what I think he's saying and exactly what I fundementally disagree with.  Is being top of the league from game 1 to 37 and finishing 2nd better than being 2nd all the way through and winning the league on the last day?

*face palm*

Can we leave it now and just do transfer bickering in here?

[mcgrath_85]

The winning the title the next day bit isn't applicable John. We finished sixth both seasons. It's not that difficult. The same league position attained under different circumstances.

[mcgrath_85]

The winning the title the next day bit isn't applicable John. WE finished sixth both seasons. The same league position attained under different circumstances. It's not that difficult.
You're twisting his argument to suit your retracted argument.

[Concrete John]

The winning the title the next day bit isn't applicable John. WE finished sixth both seasons. The same league position attained under different circumstances. It's not that difficult.
You're twisting his argument to suit your retracted argument.

As Paulie said, let's just agree to disagree.

[Ads]

We needed three goals against West Ham, Sunderland and Blackburn to breach the gap last year.

Then again, you could probably pick three matches where we were lucky to get a win rather than a draw last season and argue that that was all that stopped us from finishing one position above Blues.

Like John said, ultimately the table tells the stories, and the ifs and buts don't really count for much.

  You could but then you’d have to believe in luck.

All I’m saying is, we’ve got enough quality to play-well or dig out results enough to accumulate 64 points. We’re obviously short of goals and a bit more creativity, but the point I was highlighting is that in three games you’d have expected us to take nine points from at home, we didn’t. If we had done, we’d have breached the gap.

All in all, its not a quantum leap, we’re as usual a few players short in the areas we’ve been short in for a couple of decades. Would a player who can score 15 goals per season have seen us fourth, instead of having Heskey? Who knows. We may have just ended up putting a few more past sides we’d beaten anyway, but I’d rather have that option.

The Man City away game was interesting. We were by far and away the better side and created as many chances as Spurs did against them in their second half up there. It was two really daft mistakes from us and our archetypal profligacy in front of goal (remember we hit the underside of the bar seconds after they equalised and should have been three up before they did) that cost us. Mancini has a lot of good players no doubt, but their managers fear is what ultimately allowed Spurs to finish 4th. I don’t see them being any different this season. Now it may well be that they concede ten less goals and go on and do better, but generally if you bag 70 points, you’ll finish in the top 4. We’re not a million miles away from that.

Next season we’ll still have good away form, sides just cannot cope with pace and the inevitable higher lines we face and the tighter defence we have now will see us fine there. As you well know its our less effective home form that’s the problem. I won’t say predictable, as that doesn’t necessarily equate to effectiveness. Last season three more home wins, three more goals in those specific games, or any of the others, would have seen us 4th. That’s not a lot to beseech Fortuna for if you’re so inclined to do so.

[Concrete John]

in three games you’d have expected us to take nine points from at home, we didn’t. If we had done, we’d have breached the gap.

Although I agree with you in general, lets not forget that we also took 6 points from two away games you wouldn't have expected us to.  As always, the key is strengthening your weaknessess without weakening your strengths in the process.  If we can sort out how to beat the bus parkers at home, whilst also maintaining our away form, we'll be right up there.

[Malandro]

The important thing to look at therefore is what we'd need to do to bridge those last few positions and the answer is to win the winnable games.

All the spending by Man City, and Tottenham being in the CL only matters when we play against them and our record under o'neill against the top sides is actually pretty good so that's not where we're falling down.

Our problem is we're too susceptible to the sucker punch against teams that defend for 89mins so we drop points against people like stoke, west ham, wolves.  Our record in those games is a lot worse than it needs to be.

If we can get a couple of players who let us get goals in those games we'll make that jump as I'm sure most villa fans can find 10 'dropped' points for each of the last 3 seasons without too much effort.  That we have got points in games where we weren't the better side is irrelevant, that quality is what MON brings, we just need to now add a bit of guile to it.

Most sensible post I've read in a while.

[TheSandman]

clampy, i suggested bullard as a stop gap , but if you were there when we played hull when bullard was fit you wouldnt keep asking the question.

check the match threads , he was the best player on the pitch by a mile and recieved such rave reviews from our fans , the reception he got when he was carried off last season i think in some way reflects our fans appreciation of how good he was against the season before .

He didn't play against us the season before.

Don't get me wrong, I like Bullard, he's a decent player, but he hasn't got a track record of doing anything against us.

Was it the season before that then for Fulham? When he was brilliant?

I wouldn't touch him with a barge pole now though.

Possibly.

I wouldn't either. Especially not as a stop gap replacement for an injured midfielder (which I think was the original suggestion).

His Celtic negotiations apparently broke down as he wanted 45k a week. Anyone paying that much to someone with his injury record must have parted with their senses. Or be Phil Brown.

He didn't want £45K per week. Hull were already paying that towards his wages. He wanted £30K per week on top of that from Celtic!

[VillaAlways]

According to SSN a fee has been agreed from Fulham for Sidwell

[curiousorange]

According to SSN a fee has been agreed from Fulham for Sidwell

That's what you get when you let a sensible manager leave your club.

[supertom]

According to SSN a fee has been agreed from Fulham for Sidwell

That's what you get when you let a sensible manager leave your club.

Thank fuck for that. Get rid, because he's absolute bobbins.