Summer 2010 Transfer Thread: B*llsh*t, Rumours & Wishes

[Monty]

Chelsea won the league without that bite in there (Essien largely injured, Ballack more of a niggler), Man Utd won the league 3 times in a row with nobody more likely to crunch into the tackle than Petrov. The best defenders and defensive midfielders are the ones who avoid all the hard, suspension-bringing tackles by good positioning and interceptions, as those tackles are more of a sign of lack of talent than of expertise, and they belong with small teams.

What we missed in midfield was sheer numbers because we played 4-4-2, which did look like a lack of solidity. However, you don't need the big, hard players to make it solid - you don't even need particularly strong players. You just need well-drilled, persistent midfielders with good tactical brains. De Jong is not that, nor can the bugger pass.

[glasses]

In fact, i'd take £15m, De Jong and Richards/£18m De Jong and Onouha for Milner, and look to have a team like this

--------------Friedel---------------
Onouha-Dunne-Cuellar-Warnock
---------Petrov--De Jong---------
Young--------------------Downing
-------Barnetta--------------------
----------------Agbonlahor--------

[glasses]

Chelsea won the league without that bite in there (Essien largely injured, Ballack more of a niggler), Man Utd won the league 3 times in a row with nobody more likely to crunch into the tackle than Petrov. The best defenders and defensive midfielders are the ones who avoid all the hard, suspension-bringing tackles by good positioning and interceptions, as those tackles are more of a sign of lack of talent than of expertise, and they belong with small teams.

What we missed in midfield was sheer numbers because we played 4-4-2, which did look like a lack of solidity. However, you don't need the big, hard players to make it solid - you don't even need particularly strong players. You just need well-drilled, persistent midfielders with good tactical brains. De Jong is not that, nor can the bugger pass.

I totally agree that the best defensive midfielders are the ones that dont need to do that. Juan Veron, as a deep lying midfielder is fantastic, as he reads the game so well he doesn't need to tackle players. Its a question of preference, and of course tactics. Some games need the finer touch, some need a biter, thats why I said in some games last season we could have done with a bit more bite.

[Monty]

I still think that a change of tactics to 4-3-3 would solve that problem. The problem with 4-4-2, as England showed so helpfully, is that it leaves you totally exposed on the counter-attack especially. Numbers and greater discipline would stop opposition getting that sort of momentum on their attacks, and hopefully leading to them making a mistake and giving us the ball back. The bite we lacked was the lack of numbers to press the midfield.

[Concrete John]

Man U and Chelsea have the vast majority of possession when they play, so would favour someone who can hit 80 yard passes over a decent tackler.  We do not have that luxury.

[Monty]

Man U and Chelsea have the vast majority of possession when they play, so would favour someone who can hit 80 yard passes over a decent tackler.  We do not have that luxury.

We don't, but that's still no reason to resort to an absolute kicker. That would just be counter-productive to the goal of keeping more possession and being more creative.

The 80 yard ball thing isn't as important as a player who can keep the ball moving quickly and make sure the tempo of an attack doesn't drop. When the ball gets to De Jong the move always slows down, as it does with many kickers who have nothing else to their game, and the attack loses impetus. That could well cost us a lot of wins in a season.

[Concrete John]

Man U and Chelsea have the vast majority of possession when they play, so would favour someone who can hit 80 yard passes over a decent tackler.  We do not have that luxury.

We don't, but that's still no reason to resort to an absolute kicker. That would just be counter-productive to the goal of keeping more possession and being more creative.

The 80 yard ball thing isn't as important as a player who can keep the ball moving quickly and make sure the tempo of an attack doesn't drop. When the ball gets to De Jong the move always slows down, as it does with many kickers who have nothing else to their game, and the attack loses impetus. That could well cost us a lot of wins in a season.

I'm not actually advocating signign De Jong, but I do think we need a bit more muscle and bite in the centre.  I've said for a while now that what we need is a player who mixes up the attributes of both Petrov and NRC, so we can have that bit of nastiness/strength/'kicker' and still not lose any footballing ability in that position.

[Monty]

Oh I'd love one of those players as well, John, the perfect midfielder you could say. But there aren't many of them around and they'd cost an astonishing amount of money, and there will be bigger clubs coming in for them. It's like people wanting the perfect centre forward and demanding to know why we haven't signed one, whereas in reality Drogbas and Torreses cost ludicrous money.

[Concrete John]

Oh I'd love one of those players as well, John, the perfect midfielder you could say. But there aren't many of them around and they'd cost an astonishing amount of money, and there will be bigger clubs coming in for them. It's like people wanting the perfect centre forward and demanding to know why we haven't signed one, whereas in reality Drogbas and Torreses cost ludicrous money.

Agreed - it's a fantastic player I'm talking about.

But barring getting one of those, what do we do?  Play Petrov and/or buy a younger version or try to mix it up a bit with more of a ball winner?  If we get someone like Ireland in to replace Milner, I'd be happier with a 'kicker' behind him to shield the defence!

[timeoutbigbar]

If we could get Ireland and De Jong out of the Milner deal, i would definately take it, playing both and having petrov to come in for De Jong in games we have to chase for his better passing ability

[Monty]

I think the priority isn't the tackler, though, it's the passing. It's all about the risk you're willing to take: go for the tackler and you risk not breaking teams down; go for more of a passer and you risk being caught more on the counter. I think that playing 3 in midfield can minimise the risk of having a passing player instead of a kicker, whereas the risk of not breaking teams down is far enhanced by playing a kicker, and is too great.

[pedro25]

I would rather Petrov and Milner than Ireland and De Jong no question.  Would take either of them as the 3rd man in midfield though for the right price.

[timeoutbigbar]

I think the issue of playing a 4-3-3 though is with the way that we play, the wingers track back, which helps defensively, but we then isolate the striker.  Couple that with our method of 'playing out from the back', namely the Carlos Cuellar special, and your basically eliminating the 3 in midfield, and the wingers have so much work running up and down the flanks all game that theres not enough support for the striker.  If that all makes sense

[Toronto Villa]

I'd love to see the Japan player Honda at Villa Park. We've been crying out for a player with creativity and he'd be perfect in my opinion. He can make something out of very little, is quick and takes a mean free kick.

[Monty]

Our wingers track back, sure, but they wouldn't need to as much in the 4-3-3 as they do in the 4-4-2 because of the greater defensive numbers in midfield and the larger share of possession. Plus, Chelsea played wingers in the 4-5-1/4-3-3 who were quick enough to make sure the striker isn't isolated. Besides, the wingers wouldn't stay wide, there'd be greater flexibility in the attacking third including the midfielders. I'd also hope that we sign another right back, as our other defenders are perfectly good enough with the ball (even Carlos is, just not from full back).