Summer 2010 Transfer Thread: B*llsh*t, Rumours & Wishes

[KevinGage]

It's rarely that straightforward though.

Even if MON was more assertive in the TF market, he can ultimately only deal if/ when the opposing club is prepared to sell.

Someone mentioned Richard Dunne earlier and it's a good example. Citeh were only prepared to deal once they had Toure and Lescott in place. The Lescott deal dragged on for most of the summer, and -had it not panned out- it's unlikely Dunne would have departed.  Collins at West Ham was also dependant on other deals. West Ham thought they might get close to £10 million for Upson. When it got to the latter stages of the transfer window and became quite clear no-one would pay anywhere near that inflated fee, they sold Collins instead.

What would you do, rush in and sign an inferior CB -on the basis that you can get him in sooner and have a full pre season? Or do you wait and sign the better player later in the window.  I'm not entirely sure how much of a difference pre season makes to the better professionals anyway. I'm not saying that it's unimportant, most players need it as a base of fitness or else you're playing catch-up for the rest of the campaign.

But Dunne spent his at Citeh, Colllins at West Ham and Warnock spent most of his at Blackburn; yet the three of them were consistent performers for us. So long as they get pre-season training in some way, shape or form it ultimately doesn't matter where they acquire it.

[lessealey]

It's rarely that straightforward though.

Even if MON was more assertive in the TF market, he can ultimately only deal if/ when the opposing club is prepared to sell.

Someone mentioned Richard Dunne earlier and it's a good example. Citeh were only prepared to deal once they had Toure and Lescott in place. The Lescott deal dragged on for most of the summer, and -had it not panned out- it's unlikely Dunne would have departed.  Collins at West Ham was also dependant on other deals. West Ham thought they might get close to £10 million for Upson. When it got to the latter stages of the transfer window and became quite clear no-one would pay anywhere near that inflated fee, they sold Collins instead.

What would you do, rush in and sign an inferior CB -on the basis that you can get him in sooner and have a full pre season? Or do you wait and sign the better player later in the window.  I'm not entirely sure how much of a difference pre season makes to the better professionals anyway. I'm not saying that it's unimportant, most players need it as a base of fitness or else you're playing catch-up for the rest of the campaign.

But Dunne spent his at Citeh, Colllins at West Ham and Warnock spent most of his at Blackburn; yet the three of them were consistent performers for us. So long as they get pre-season training in some way, shape or form it ultimately doesn't matter where they acquire it.

Nice post

[Ads]

It's rarely that straightforward though.

Even if MON was more assertive in the TF market, he can ultimately only deal if/ when the opposing club is prepared to sell.

Someone mentioned Richard Dunne earlier and it's a good example. Citeh were only prepared to deal once they had Toure and Lescott in place. The Lescott deal dragged on for most of the summer, and -had it not panned out- it's unlikely Dunne would have departed.  Collins at West Ham was also dependant on other deals. West Ham thought they might get close to £10 million for Upson. When it got to the latter stages of the transfer window and became quite clear no-one would pay anywhere near that inflated fee, they sold Collins instead.

What would you do, rush in and sign an inferior CB -on the basis that you can get him in sooner and have a full pre season? Or do you wait and sign the better player later in the window.  I'm not entirely sure how much of a difference pre season makes to the better professionals anyway. I'm not saying that it's unimportant, most players need it as a base of fitness or else you're playing catch-up for the rest of the campaign.

But Dunne spent his at Citeh, Colllins at West Ham and Warnock spent most of his at Blackburn; yet the three of them were consistent performers for us. So long as they get pre-season training in some way, shape or form it ultimately doesn't matter where they acquire it.

You raise some very good points KG. I think a few people are forgetting the makret in trasnfer market as you say.

[KevinGage]

If you also look at the case of Warnock, Blackburn were looking at £12(!) million originally.

Fair enough, he's just about the only player they had close to England reckoning, and he was their Player of The Year. But £12 million on a left back is crack prices. Or at the very least not the kind of figure a club of our stature would pay for a player in that position.

But following the earlier logic, MON should have just paid the initial asking fee to get him in sooner. Had he done so of course that would have probably impacted on the pot available for the latter deals we completed too. We might have had to choose from one of Collins or Dunne.

£12 million was obviously the starting point, and at least confirmed that Blackburn would deal. Once we'd established the principle, it was then just a case of negotiating the price.

According to reports, MON wanted to pay closer to £5-6 million. Blackburn were looking for £12mill. In the end, the deal happened closer to our valuation than theirs and still left us enough cash to complete our other business.

I'd say a fair few deals are like that across the board. Even Moneybags Citeh go through the ritual of negotiating occasionally.

[Concrete John]

I think we all see the sense in getting signings in early, bedding them in and having them firing for us from day one.  You could argue that had this happened last summer we'd be three points better off (Wigan at home) and have still been in Europe.

However, if it's a choice between early deals or waiting and getting who we want for what we want, then I'm prepared to wait!

[MoetVillan]

Good pst Kevin.  I get the impression MON is a hard negotiator, and knows what he wants.  I think thats good for the squad and Villa in the long haul.  It may mean we get a lot more discussion on here, but ultimately it is the squad that counts.

[peter w]

I've never understood the rampant irritation about MON's transfer MO after his first couple of seasons. We were told that this was how he conducted his transfer negotiations and deals and yet here we are in the 4th season wondering why he isn't signing anyone now.

its the same for the january window.

[AsTallAsLions]

It's rarely that straightforward though.

Even if MON was more assertive in the TF market, he can ultimately only deal if/ when the opposing club is prepared to sell.

Someone mentioned Richard Dunne earlier and it's a good example. Citeh were only prepared to deal once they had Toure and Lescott in place. The Lescott deal dragged on for most of the summer, and -had it not panned out- it's unlikely Dunne would have departed.  Collins at West Ham was also dependant on other deals. West Ham thought they might get close to £10 million for Upson. When it got to the latter stages of the transfer window and became quite clear no-one would pay anywhere near that inflated fee, they sold Collins instead.

What would you do, rush in and sign an inferior CB -on the basis that you can get him in sooner and have a full pre season? Or do you wait and sign the better player later in the window.  I'm not entirely sure how much of a difference pre season makes to the better professionals anyway. I'm not saying that it's unimportant, most players need it as a base of fitness or else you're playing catch-up for the rest of the campaign.

But Dunne spent his at Citeh, Colllins at West Ham and Warnock spent most of his at Blackburn; yet the three of them were consistent performers for us. So long as they get pre-season training in some way, shape or form it ultimately doesn't matter where they acquire it.

That's all well and good but when you consider that managers like MON exist, who will consistently sell before they buy, the theory is undermined somewhat.

[Phil from the upper holte]

I've never understood the rampant irritation about MON's transfer MO after his first couple of seasons. We were told that this was how he conducted his transfer negotiations and deals and yet here we are in the 4th season wondering why he isn't signing anyone now.

its the same for the january window.

Don't bring up the Jan transfer window it brings up too many bad memories

[Concrete John]

That's all well and good but when you consider that managers like MON exist, who will consistently sell before they buy, the theory is undermined somewhat.

I don't think it's undermined, but there are obviously exceptions to every rule.  

Our early signings last summer were Delph and Downing, so giving £8m to a Division 1 club and £12m to a Championship club early doors.  I'm sure that armed with that money and most of the window to shop, they were quite confident of getting replacements in.  And lets also remember that in those instances the club we were buying from would be shopping because they are selling, where as with the Lescott/Dunne example Man City were selling BECAUSE they were buying what they saw as an upgrade.

[MattW]

Link to Eduardo. Albeit an unconvincing one: Mail

[Greg N'Ash]

Just don't agree there's any method in his madness. He's shown time and time again he's willing to sell players before replacements have arrived, not replace players for a season or more, pay miles over the odds for players, buy knackered players etc.. just the way he is, but claiming its some genius trait designed to get the best deals is stretching credibility in my view.

[Rudy Can't Fail]

Just don't agree there's any method in his madness. He's shown time and time again he's willing to sell players before replacements have arrived, not replace players for a season or more, pay miles over the odds for players, buy knackered players etc.. just the way he is, but claiming its some genius trait designed to get the best deals is stretching credibility in my view.

That may be so but you can't deny he bought well last summer.

[Greg N'Ash]

no i don't but then you can't deny there's 30m worth of players he bought that he's willing to let go this summer. Doesn't really sit well with transfer genius tag....

[Chris Smith]

no i don't but then you can't deny there's 30m worth of players he bought that he's willing to let go this summer. Doesn't really sit well with transfer genius tag....

If we want to sign players then we have to sell some of our existing ones or do you expect us to have a squad of 35? It's how any normal  club looking to improve operates