Summer 2010 Transfer Thread: B*llsh*t, Rumours & Wishes

[davevillan]

I understand your point gibbo. My point is, at 26 he hasnt yet played in the top flight, and there has to be a reason for that.
Moyes does do well with lower league players agreed, but they tend to be younger.
He scored 31 in 52 last season which was a good record, but lets see him do it week in week out against premier league defenders, and not against the likes of stockport, wycombe etc.
Its all about opinion, mine is, that i hope we have our sights set higher on whatever strikers we are looking to bring in, to take us to the next level.
I just dont think Beckford is that player, and id rather play the Fonz instead of him.

[Shrek]

I bet beckford gets more goals than any Villa player next season, which pisses me off.

I'll bet you that Gabby and Carews league games to goals ratio will be better than Beckfords. £10?

/

Reminds me, someone had a £10 bet with me last Summer that we'd finish ahead of Spurs, anyone want to own up?

100% Beckfords goal/game ratio will be better than gabby's.

You might be right about him not having as much of a chance, but honestly would he not be your first choice after Saha to come off the bench.

[Ads]

Everton are cutting their cloth accordingly. If they had more than two pence to rub together, then they wouldn’t be after a 26 year old Championship/League 2 player with no top flight experience.

Personally, my money would be on the younger player that has consistently scored goals at this level and is improving year on year.

[KevinGage]

It was telling that in the England game yesterday Ashley Cole's effectiveness increased when he didn't have Lennon in front of him. Playing that sort of full back with Ashley Young would be counter productive. MON likes to have a defensively solid and well disciplined back 4 to give the rest of the side more freedom to push on.

That's all very well, but in Warnock I'd say we have one of the most attacking full backs in the game.  I think Warnock has been largely excellent for us, but he's no more defensively sound than Young, and yet I didn't notice him being replaced by an out of position centre back.

I don't think he's overly attacking, but he's one of the few that can contribute well going forward without any sacrifice to defensive attirbutes.

I think that applies to Luke Young as well.  Both are equally comfortable defending and attacking, something that can't be said about Cuellar.

As it goes, I'd agree with you on that.

I just think Martin must have seen something we didn't.  Plus, as I said before, I don't think it had the huge impact on our season some others do.

Personally I think it had a pretty huge bearing on our season.
It was an obvious weakspot, not just obvious to supporters but to the opposition as well. They were quite happy to sit off him and let him (a) pass the ball directly back to them or (b) boot it out of play. Same net result, we surrender possession and can't build up a head of steam.

You don't think this might have had just a slight bearing on our home form?  

What you suggest about Cuellar being more defensive minded and an attacking fullback being a bit of a liability might be perfectly valid if Luke was one of those.

But he's not. He's the archetypal Steady Eddie, a 7/10 performer. More Denis Irwin than Roberto Carlos, Macion or any of the other exotic in vogue names.  Not someone who would offer a huge amount in the final third (he can bomb forward and change the momentum, but his crossing isn't the greatest) but a fullback who knows when to hold back, and rarely gets turned inside out.

[garyshawsknee]

I understand your point gibbo. My point is, at 26 he hasnt yet played in the top flight, and there has to be a reason for that.
Moyes does do well with lower league players agreed, but they tend to be younger.
He scored 31 in 52 last season which was a good record, but lets see him do it week in week out against premier league defenders, and not against the likes of stockport, wycombe etc.
Its all about opinion, mine is, that i hope we have our sights set higher on whatever strikers we are looking to bring in, to take us to the next level.
I just dont think Beckford is that player, and id rather play the Fonz instead of him.

 Here here,next season will be an important one for the development of the Fonz,hes got the makings of a class act,and should only be put down the pecking order by a signing that will displace Gab or Carew....which probably wont happen.

[SoccerHQ]

Yeah you could probably get Clyne for about 2m before Palace go bust.

Worth a dabble.

[Concrete John]

Personally I think it had a pretty huge bearing on our season.
It was an obvious weakspot, not just obvious to supporters but to the opposition as well. They were quite happy to sit off him and let him (a) pass the ball directly back to them or (b) boot it out of play. Same net result, we surrender possession and can't build up a head of steam.

You don't think this might have had just a slight bearing on our home form?  

What you suggest about Cuellar being more defensive minded and an attacking fullback being a bit of a liability might be perfectly valid if Luke was one of those.

But he's not. He's the archetypal Steady Eddie, a 7/10 performer. More Denis Irwin than Roberto Carlos, Macion or any of the other exotic in vogue names.  Not someone who would offer a huge amount in the final third (he can bomb forward and change the momentum, but his crossing isn't the greatest) but a fullback who knows when to hold back, and rarely gets turned inside out.

Our problem last season, as we all know, was breaking down teams that sat back against us at home.  And I'm sorry, but you don't fix that by changing the right back!  Slight bearing?  Yes, I never said it didn't effect us, but I do think it was a minor issue compared to other areas of the side that need addressing.

And I agree about Young - I've said numerous times I would have played him if it was me!

[Concrete John]

Yeah you could probably get Clyne for about 2m before Palace go bust.

Worth a dabble.

I think Clyne fits the bill for fullback cover once the others leave.  Getting him now would make sense if there's a million or two to be saved in doing so.

[KevinGage]

Personally I think it had a pretty huge bearing on our season.
It was an obvious weakspot, not just obvious to supporters but to the opposition as well. They were quite happy to sit off him and let him (a) pass the ball directly back to them or (b) boot it out of play. Same net result, we surrender possession and can't build up a head of steam.

You don't think this might have had just a slight bearing on our home form?  

What you suggest about Cuellar being more defensive minded and an attacking fullback being a bit of a liability might be perfectly valid if Luke was one of those.

But he's not. He's the archetypal Steady Eddie, a 7/10 performer. More Denis Irwin than Roberto Carlos, Macion or any of the other exotic in vogue names.  Not someone who would offer a huge amount in the final third (he can bomb forward and change the momentum, but his crossing isn't the greatest) but a fullback who knows when to hold back, and rarely gets turned inside out.

Our problem last season, as we all know, was breaking down teams that sat back against us at home.  And I'm sorry, but you don't fix that by changing the right back!  Slight bearing?  Yes, I never said it didn't effect us, but I do think it was a minor issue compared to other areas of the side that need addressing.

And I agree about Young - I've said numerous times I would have played him if it was me!

You can't break down teams if you surrender possession so consistently.
I'd have thought that's a fairly obvious starting point.

[Concrete John]

Personally I think it had a pretty huge bearing on our season.
It was an obvious weakspot, not just obvious to supporters but to the opposition as well. They were quite happy to sit off him and let him (a) pass the ball directly back to them or (b) boot it out of play. Same net result, we surrender possession and can't build up a head of steam.

You don't think this might have had just a slight bearing on our home form?  

What you suggest about Cuellar being more defensive minded and an attacking fullback being a bit of a liability might be perfectly valid if Luke was one of those.

But he's not. He's the archetypal Steady Eddie, a 7/10 performer. More Denis Irwin than Roberto Carlos, Macion or any of the other exotic in vogue names.  Not someone who would offer a huge amount in the final third (he can bomb forward and change the momentum, but his crossing isn't the greatest) but a fullback who knows when to hold back, and rarely gets turned inside out.

Our problem last season, as we all know, was breaking down teams that sat back against us at home.  And I'm sorry, but you don't fix that by changing the right back!  Slight bearing?  Yes, I never said it didn't effect us, but I do think it was a minor issue compared to other areas of the side that need addressing.

And I agree about Young - I've said numerous times I would have played him if it was me!

You can't break down teams if you surrender possession so consistently.
I'd have thought that's a fairly obvious starting point.

So, you're saying that having a better right back would've seen us win more home games and finish 4th?  Without a better striker and more midfield creativity?

[KevinGage]

In it's own way the position is equally as vital to that end, yes.

 A better right-back might not score you the goals that a forward is capable of, or open teams up with that final killer pass in the same way a creative midfielder might.

But it does mean that your attacks have less chance of petering out with a misplaced pass. No point if you have the above and bleed possession to the extent that you can't make the most of those talents.

[TheSandman]

Okay I've decided what I'd want and I think I'm being pretty realistic. First if we do sell Milly and I hope we wouldn't I'd want at least £20million and Ireland. If we don't sell Milner I still want Ireland as I'd love both. If we can squeeze another player out of Money City I'd like it to be a right back and I'd not be too upset with either of Richards or Onuoha.

As well as that I'd like a back up right back. Clyne would fit the bill here. I'd also like a defensive midfield player as we're unlikely to shop abroad I'd suggest either N'Zonzi or Diame; either will cost around £10million at most. Maybe if our scouts had a look abroad and in the lower leagues we could have got either of them for a few hundred grand a season ago! We also need a striker. I don't want a 20 goal a season man as we have Gabby and Carew to get 10-15 each it's just we lack depth below that we need someone who plays deeper. On the UK market we're going to struggle to do much better than Keane or Rodallega with again £10million being the absolute max.

We also could help ourselves out by clearing out some players. The shortlist for that should include Shorey, Reo Coker, Sidwell and Heskey prominently. Martin isn't going to play Luke Young or Beye so both should be sold and as for Curtis Davies it is better for both sides him trying his luck elsewhere.

[Concrete John]

In it's own way the position is equally as vital to that end, yes.

 A better right-back might not score you the goals that a forward is capable of, or open teams up with that final killer pass in the same way a creative midfielder might.

But it does mean that your attacks have less chance of petering out with a misplaced pass. No point if you have the above and bleed possession to the extent that you can't make the most of those talents.

I think you over-egging the whole 'Carlos gives the ball away' thing.

If we had a better striker and more creativity I don't think we'd even be talking about the right back having anything to do with our ability to score goals!

[Mazrim]

I bet beckford gets more goals than any Villa player next season, which pisses me off.

Firstly, absolute cobblers.

Secondly, I'll bet you any amount you care to wager.

[KevinGage]

I think the main thing that bugs me about the whole situation (aside from the attempts to justify it ;0 )
is the suspicion that it isn't entirely a football-related decision.

Sorenson was ostracised and not up for selection despite still being on the books when Carson was having a 'mare. Whatever the doubts some might have  had about Tommy, he was far better than Carson.

Ditto NRC. Again, he might have his deficiencies. As often mentioned, he has plenty of heart, commitment and strength, but his passing is suspect. Fair enough. But Sidwell can't pass tackle or shoot and has still seen more game-time in NRC's favoured position.

If Cuellar was preferred purely on the basis that MON believes that picking him increased our chances of success on matchday then I could just about swallow it, as illogical and misguided as it may seem. But as mentioned on the Luke Young thread, the decision probably has more to do with Luke's comments pre Moscow and voicing his concerns about playing out of position for an extended period.

That's not the way pick to a team, omitting players because of grudges and picking inferior players in their place. That can only weaken your chances of success.