Summer 2010 Transfer Thread: B*llsh*t, Rumours & Wishes

[Greg N'Ash]

you're missing my point john. i don't think full-backs in the old fashioned "safety-first" mode exist any more. there was a revolution in tactics which seems to have passed MON by, just look at capello preferring cole and johnson for England. so any right-back bought in has to modify his game. it's no wonder he prefers centre-halves that have no ambition to advance past their own penalty area and probably the likes of Cuellar defending is better than a right-back having to modifying his game totally to a defensive role. Someone like the dutch player linked will have the same problems as he's been brought up to play in systems where the full-back has an offensive role and will have to adopt to MON 70's/80's ideas of a fullback

And you're missing mine, which is that should Martin see a defense frailty in a fullback (and I'm not saying Young had any) he would not live with it for the sake of any attacking play he might bring.  

If you can attack, then great, but if you can't defend also, then it's pointless.

well in that case he'd be better off saving the money allocated for a right-back along with any he gets for Young and Beye and investing it in the development of a  time machine to take him back to 1985. If you look again at who is rated as the definite modern day english full-backs in this country, you have players like cole and Johnson. they both have defensive frailities. Johnson is particular is bobbins to my mind and can't defend to save his life but thats how the game has gone tactically. Finding a totally defensive right-back is going to be a struggle, as i think its proved the last 4 plus years. If young's not it, and he was hardly a glen johnson then who is?

[SteveN]

 you have players like cole and Johnson. they both have defensive frailities. J?

Much as I dislike him I can't see how you believe Cole has defensive frailties.  Is there a better left back playing at the  minute?

[Concrete John]

well in that case he'd be better off saving the money allocated for a right-back along with any he gets for Young and Beye and investing it in the development of a  time machine to take him back to 1985. If you look again at who is rated as the definite modern day english full-backs in this country, you have players like cole and Johnson. they both have defensive frailities. Johnson is particular is bobbins to my mind and can't defend to save his life but thats how the game has gone tactically. Finding a totally defensive right-back is going to be a struggle, as i think its proved the last 4 plus years. If young's not it, and he was hardly a glen johnson then who is?

Ashley Cole defends well and Glen Johnson will with a bit more experience.  Once again it's not about being totally defensive, it's about any attacking qualities not being to the detraction of defending.  

As we've got Warnock that does it on one side why do you think we can't find it for the right?

[Clampy]

He'd have had kittens if he'd inherited a full-back like cole or Johnson

We'd have all had kittens had he paid £17m for Glen Johnson.

[Shrek]

I see Moyes has done it again, grabbed a no risk bargain in Beckford.

I have horrible feeling we will spend 10 million on a player who doesn't do as good as Beckford.

With Delph being injured I'd snap up joe Ledley on a free, can't be worse than Sidwell.

[Risso]

It was telling that in the England game yesterday Ashley Cole's effectiveness increased when he didn't have Lennon in front of him. Playing that sort of full back with Ashley Young would be counter productive. MON likes to have a defensively solid and well disciplined back 4 to give the rest of the side more freedom to push on.

That's all very well, but in Warnock I'd say we have one of the most attacking full backs in the game.  I think Warnock has been largely excellent for us, but he's no more defensively sound than Young, and yet I didn't notice him being replaced by an out of position centre back.

I don't think he's overly attacking, but he's one of the few that can contribute well going forward without any sacrifice to defensive attirbutes.

I think that applies to Luke Young as well.  Both are equally comfortable defending and attacking, something that can't be said about Cuellar.

[Greg N'Ash]

well in that case he'd be better off saving the money allocated for a right-back along with any he gets for Young and Beye and investing it in the development of a  time machine to take him back to 1985. If you look again at who is rated as the definite modern day english full-backs in this country, you have players like cole and Johnson. they both have defensive frailities. Johnson is particular is bobbins to my mind and can't defend to save his life but thats how the game has gone tactically. Finding a totally defensive right-back is going to be a struggle, as i think its proved the last 4 plus years. If young's not it, and he was hardly a glen johnson then who is?

Ashley Cole defends well and Glen Johnson will with a bit more experience.  Once again it's not about being totally defensive, it's about any attacking qualities not being to the detraction of defending.  


young is miles better defensively than johnson. always will be. cole can be iffy sometimes but that goes for most modern full-backs

As we've got Warnock that does it on one side why do you think we can't find it for the right?

warnock has modified his game to my mind. personally i think he's got progressively less attacking. i'm sure its possible to find a player who will do likewise, but then you might as well keep Cuellar no? i think one of the reasons young was a success on the left was because he was less sure of himself there and was less likely to move forward.  on his favoured side he was more comfortable and not doing what MON wanted.

[Rip Van We Go Again]

Lets save the criticism of Martin paying £10m+ for Kevin Doyle until if and when it actually happens.  Which I think it won't!

I'm not saying Martin neccessarily will, only pointing out the folly of chasing sub-standard English based players who are over priced.

Some on here rate him and i'm puzzled as to why.

[davevillan]

I see Moyes has done it again, grabbed a no risk bargain in Beckford.

I have horrible feeling we will spend 10 million on a player who doesn't do as good as Beckford.

With Delph being injured I'd snap up joe Ledley on a free, can't be worse than Sidwell.

Maybe MON just doesnt rate Beckford?
he is 26 and has plied his trade in the lower leagues, its not like he is a youngster like Delph etc.
We are on about getting in players who can help us improve and push for top 4 and other honours. With due respect, at his age, i dont think Beckford is the sort of player who can help us get to the next level.
I would imagine the Fonz will get more game time next season, and will have a better goals to game ration then Beckford.

[Concrete John]

It was telling that in the England game yesterday Ashley Cole's effectiveness increased when he didn't have Lennon in front of him. Playing that sort of full back with Ashley Young would be counter productive. MON likes to have a defensively solid and well disciplined back 4 to give the rest of the side more freedom to push on.

That's all very well, but in Warnock I'd say we have one of the most attacking full backs in the game.  I think Warnock has been largely excellent for us, but he's no more defensively sound than Young, and yet I didn't notice him being replaced by an out of position centre back.

I don't think he's overly attacking, but he's one of the few that can contribute well going forward without any sacrifice to defensive attirbutes.

I think that applies to Luke Young as well.  Both are equally comfortable defending and attacking, something that can't be said about Cuellar.

As it goes, I'd agree with you on that.

I just think Martin must have seen something we didn't.  Plus, as I said before, I don't think it had the huge impact on our season some others do.

[TheSandman]

Going off on a tangent I'd say Luke Young is a better defender than Warnock who does my head in with how he never closes down quick enough and it was things like this that saw him have a poor end to the season.

After a dodgy start where we suffered from his abysmal passing Cuellar has steadily got better and he does the closing down in particular very, very well indeed. Luke Young is probably somewhere  in the middle. That said, if we consider his attacking prowess Warnock is a considerably better full back player all round than either.

[Concrete John]

warnock has modified his game to my mind. personally i think he's got progressively less attacking. i'm sure its possible to find a player who will do likewise, but then you might as well keep Cuellar no? i think one of the reasons young was a success on the left was because he was less sure of himself there and was less likely to move forward.  on his favoured side he was more comfortable and not doing what MON wanted.

Once again, Martin, and any other manager for that matter, has nothing against attacking fullbacks, just so long as it does not effect their defending.  To make it simple:-
good attacking + poor defending = bad
poor attacking + good defending = acceptable
good attacking + good defending = Stephen Warnock

[Concrete John]

Lets save the criticism of Martin paying £10m+ for Kevin Doyle until if and when it actually happens.  Which I think it won't!

I'm not saying Martin neccessarily will, only pointing out the folly of chasing sub-standard English based players who are over priced.

Some on here rate him and i'm puzzled as to why.

OK then, lets just wait until he chases sub-standard English based players who are overpriced then.

[Greg N'Ash]

warnock has modified his game to my mind. personally i think he's got progressively less attacking. i'm sure its possible to find a player who will do likewise, but then you might as well keep Cuellar no? i think one of the reasons young was a success on the left was because he was less sure of himself there and was less likely to move forward.  on his favoured side he was more comfortable and not doing what MON wanted.

Once again, Martin, and any other manager for that matter, has nothing against attacking fullbacks, just so long as it does not effect their defending.  To make it simple:-
good attacking + poor defending = bad
poor attacking + good defending = acceptable
good attacking + good defending = Stephen Warnock/Luke Young

maybe you don't agree but finding a right-back who's gonna be as defensive as Cuellar, but also more attacking than young, on our budget, well good luck with that :0)

[Concrete John]

maybe you don't agree but finding a right-back who's gonna be as defensive as Cuellar, but also more attacking than young, on our budget, well good luck with that :0)

Personally, I'd play Young.

A right sided Warnock would do me, so lets not discount the possibility as we've already found one that fits the bill.